As my first post to this board I would like to ask all of the fans gathered here a question in the spirit of our current political situation in the country.
Are we better off than we were four years ago??
My answer unfortunately is no, we are not. Matter of fact in my opinion there is no progress at all. In 5 years under coach Jeff Genyk our team was 16-42 and currently in Ron English's fourth year we are 8-30. I do not see our team winning 8 more additional games in this and next season. So my conclusion goes as following. Unfortunately Ron English needs to go. Under Genyk our team was just as painful to watch but at least some games created some excitement offensively. Well under English its all bad. Just wondering, with our QB graduating this year who will take over the offense ? I do not think it will be too pretty next year. As for this year, we are currently 0-2 and probably will be 0-4. Hopefully our boys' confidence won't be all the way down especially after the loss to ISU. If it is 0-12 season is definitely possible. I would like to be more positive but honestly how can one be positive? What are your guys' opinions on this? Are we better of than we were 4 years ago?
I absolutely disagree. First, I think 8 wins in the next 20 games is entirely realistic
More important, I think the talent and depth of this team is FAR greater than it was under Genyk. You bring up quarterback, and I think that's a good example. Next year the team will have at least three legitimate contenders to be starting QB: Tyler Benz will be a redshirt junior, Mark Iannoti will be a redshirt sophomore, and highly regarded recruit Brogan Roback will be a true freshman. The OL is struggling right now, but there's a lot of depth there that doesn't show on the field (because you only need 5 guys at a time) but will benefit this team for years to come. Likewise at many other positions (e.g., running back).
Besides all that, you have to think about how willing good coaches would be to come here if EMU fires English less than a year after the winningest season in 15 years.
(09-09-2012 02:35 PM)cmadler Wrote: [ -> ]I absolutely disagree. First, I think 8 wins in the next 20 games is entirely realistic
More important, I think the talent and depth of this team is FAR greater than it was under Genyk. You bring up quarterback, and I think that's a good example. Next year the team will have at least three legitimate contenders to be starting QB: Tyler Benz will be a redshirt junior, Mark Iannoti will be a redshirt sophomore, and highly regarded recruit Brogan Roback will be a true freshman. The OL is struggling right now, but there's a lot of depth there that doesn't show on the field (because you only need 5 guys at a time) but will benefit this team for years to come. Likewise at many other positions (e.g., running back).
Besides all that, you have to think about how willing good coaches would be to come here if EMU fires English less than a year after the winningest season in 15 years.
I respect your opinion but I disagree on the talent level. If the talent level is higher then where are the wins? Where? We went 6-6 next season and 2 of those wins were against I-AA opponents so in my book we were 4-6. These AA games are iffy in my opinion, you win them its whatever, you lose them its a big deal so we might as well start scheduling real opponents. 8 games are definitely realistic I mean you would hope they would be but I highly doubt if we win that many. Back to your argument, it seems your main argument is the talent level but who honestly cares if you do not have wins to show for it? Detroit Tigers are loaded compared to the White Sox and who is leading the AL Central? Talent is one thing but what you do with it is another.
(09-09-2012 02:35 PM)cmadler Wrote: [ -> ]I absolutely disagree. First, I think 8 wins in the next 20 games is entirely realistic
More important, I think the talent and depth of this team is FAR greater than it was under Genyk. You bring up quarterback, and I think that's a good example. Next year the team will have at least three legitimate contenders to be starting QB: Tyler Benz will be a redshirt junior, Mark Iannoti will be a redshirt sophomore, and highly regarded recruit Brogan Roback will be a true freshman. The OL is struggling right now, but there's a lot of depth there that doesn't show on the field (because you only need 5 guys at a time) but will benefit this team for years to come. Likewise at many other positions (e.g., running back).
Besides all that, you have to think about how willing good coaches would be to come here if EMU fires English less than a year after the winningest season in 15 years.
FYI.... Roback is having a terrible year this year as a Senior. His team is 0-3 and has been blown out in all of those games. He is not as good as you think.
Genyk inherited the last of Rasnick's kids and most of Woodruff's kids. The problem was that those kids were partying too much and Genyk had to deal with a major issue with some players in 2004. When the athletic department isn't forking out the money to get a coach, then we get coaches at a bargain basement price. Remember, EMU is a stepping stone for coaches to move on to the bigger schools.
The most shocking thing to me was the offensive line play in the Illinois State game, one week after not allowing Ball State one sack and the next week our QB is running for his life? My thoughts are the kids mind set was not up for the game and for part of that I blame the coaches.
I'm patient enough to wait to see the end of this season but yes the same yardstick that was applied to Genyk now applies to English, 90% of this team are English recruits so this is his team. Actually I expect more out of English because he was given more to work with budget and facility wise than any other EMU football coach in the history of the school.
The conservative and predictable play calling by Karcher neutralizes any talent advantage EMU may have. The offense has plenty of talent but if the defense knows what coming then it's worthless. Getting 1-3 yards on first down does EMU no good because it puts them in obvious passing situations (EMU's biggest weakness). Without a gunslinger QB the only way EMU's offense will move the ball consistently is if they mix it up on first/second down.
Dear utpotts,
Any quarterback will only be as good as his supporting cast. If, he gets no protection on passes, and he has no running game to set up the passing game, and his receivers are terrible, you can have the best quarterback in the world on your team and you will struggle. You also do not mention any statistics. What is his completion rate to interceptions? So, you haven't really shown anything, other than his team being 0 -3.
Dear WoodenNickle,
I agree with you, and after watching Eastern for two games now, I would like to see some reverses, screen passes, some trick plays, anything to get out of the very conservative play calling. I would also tell the starters, you either perform or someone else is coming in. I really have a hard time with coaches that keep players in games that are not performing. Now, maybe the coaches think the starters are doing fine, but something isn't working.
(09-09-2012 06:46 PM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote: [ -> ]The conservative and predictable play calling by Karcher neutralizes any talent advantage EMU may have. The offense has plenty of talent but if the defense knows what coming then it's worthless. Getting 1-3 yards on first down does EMU no good because it puts them in obvious passing situations (EMU's biggest weakness). Without a gunslinger QB the only way EMU's offense will move the ball consistently is if they mix it up on first/second down.
Spot on, brother.
(09-09-2012 02:13 PM)realistEagle Wrote: [ -> ]As my first post to this board I would like to ask all of the fans gathered here a question in the spirit of our current political situation in the country.
Are we better off than we were four years ago??
Yes. Although it doesn't show in the standings.
Two games don't make a season. Both games with actually could have gone either way.
I'm of the school of thought that if we could play ISU 12 times this season we'd win probably 10 times.
For those not into statistics and probablity, games are essentially chance events, not pure chance like the lottery or rolling dice, but it is still probablity, none the less.
Last night a weakened Boston Red Sox team beat the Yankees.
In baseball a very good team might win say 12 of 18 games vs. a clearly inferior team during their season series.
ISU would not be able to repeat their ZERO penalties performance and I'd love to see some statistics of how often this happens in FBS football.
We also had 5 turnovers and they 2.
We lost to a team with 2 turnovers and ZERO penalities. ISU, with those numbers, would have beaten a lot of FBS teams Saturday.
I wish I would have posted my pre-season 'probabilities' of victory for each game:
Maybe something like:
BSU game 40%
ISU game 80 - 85%
Purdue game 10%
MSU game 5%
Kent game maybe 50+ %
Based on this line of thought, we'd probably beat EITHER BSU or KENT, but not both.
Maybe take CMU and Army, We'd probably beat EITHER CMU or ARMY, but a slim chance of both.
Maybe we'd been more realistic and said last year's team was really good enough to win FIVE game, not six.
Maybe winning four or five games this year would be as good as six last season.
The only true realism I saw on this board were those who thought that this year's scdedule was brutal with only ISU and maybe CMU being considered weak.
(09-12-2012 09:56 AM)emu steve Wrote: [ -> ] (09-09-2012 02:13 PM)realistEagle Wrote: [ -> ]As my first post to this board I would like to ask all of the fans gathered here a question in the spirit of our current political situation in the country.
Are we better off than we were four years ago??
Yes. Although it doesn't show in the standings.
Two games don't make a season. Both games with actually could have gone either way.
I'm of the school of thought that if we could play ISU 12 times this season we'd win probably 10 times.
For those not into statistics and probablity, games are essentially chance events, not pure chance like the lottery or rolling dice, but it is still probablity, none the less.
Last night a weakened Boston Red Sox team beat the Yankees.
In baseball a very good team might win say 12 of 18 games vs. a clearly inferior team during their season series.
ISU would not be able to repeat their ZERO penalties performance and I'd love to see some statistics of how often this happens in FBS football.
We also had 5 turnovers and they 2.
We lost to a team with 2 turnovers and ZERO penalities. ISU, with those numbers, would have beaten a lot of FBS teams Saturday.
I wish I would have posted my pre-season 'probabilities' of victory for each game:
Maybe something like:
BSU game 40%
ISU game 80 - 85%
Purdue game 10%
MSU game 5%
Kent game maybe 50+ %
Based on this line of thought, we'd probably beat EITHER BSU or KENT, but not both.
Maybe take CMU and Army, We'd probably beat EITHER CMU or ARMY, but a slim chance of both.
Maybe we'd been more realistic and said last year's team was really good enough to win FIVE game, not six.
Maybe winning four or five games this year would be as good as six last season.
The only true realism I saw on this board were those who thought that this year's scdedule was brutal with only ISU and maybe CMU being considered weak.
No, neither game could have gone either way. EMU lost by double digits in both. This team collapsed in the 2nd half in both games not because of unforeseen circumstances, but because of ineptitude. A game “going either way” insinuates that the games were between evenly matched squads. They were not. Eastern was significantly worse than both ISU and Ball State.
(09-12-2012 02:06 PM)wolverineeagle Wrote: [ -> ] (09-12-2012 09:56 AM)emu steve Wrote: [ -> ] (09-09-2012 02:13 PM)realistEagle Wrote: [ -> ]As my first post to this board I would like to ask all of the fans gathered here a question in the spirit of our current political situation in the country.
Are we better off than we were four years ago??
Yes. Although it doesn't show in the standings.
Two games don't make a season. Both games with actually could have gone either way.
I'm of the school of thought that if we could play ISU 12 times this season we'd win probably 10 times.
For those not into statistics and probablity, games are essentially chance events, not pure chance like the lottery or rolling dice, but it is still probablity, none the less.
Last night a weakened Boston Red Sox team beat the Yankees.
In baseball a very good team might win say 12 of 18 games vs. a clearly inferior team during their season series.
ISU would not be able to repeat their ZERO penalties performance and I'd love to see some statistics of how often this happens in FBS football.
We also had 5 turnovers and they 2.
We lost to a team with 2 turnovers and ZERO penalities. ISU, with those numbers, would have beaten a lot of FBS teams Saturday.
I wish I would have posted my pre-season 'probabilities' of victory for each game:
Maybe something like:
BSU game 40%
ISU game 80 - 85%
Purdue game 10%
MSU game 5%
Kent game maybe 50+ %
Based on this line of thought, we'd probably beat EITHER BSU or KENT, but not both.
Maybe take CMU and Army, We'd probably beat EITHER CMU or ARMY, but a slim chance of both.
Maybe we'd been more realistic and said last year's team was really good enough to win FIVE game, not six.
Maybe winning four or five games this year would be as good as six last season.
The only true realism I saw on this board were those who thought that this year's scdedule was brutal with only ISU and maybe CMU being considered weak.
No, neither game could have gone either way. EMU lost by double digits in both. This team collapsed in the 2nd half in both games not because of unforeseen circumstances, but because of ineptitude. A game “going either way” insinuates that the games were between evenly matched squads. They were not. Eastern was significantly worse than both ISU and Ball State.
Late in the 1st half, I thought EMU had ISU 'on the run'.
When someone says the game 'could have gone either way' that doesn't necessarily imply the game was tied with 5 minutes to go and one team won out.
To me, a team going for a TD and gets a turnover and the other team goes down field and scores a TD, resulting in a 14 point swing.
Lot of 14-point games 'could have gone either way..."
(09-12-2012 02:20 PM)emu steve Wrote: [ -> ] (09-12-2012 02:06 PM)wolverineeagle Wrote: [ -> ] (09-12-2012 09:56 AM)emu steve Wrote: [ -> ] (09-09-2012 02:13 PM)realistEagle Wrote: [ -> ]As my first post to this board I would like to ask all of the fans gathered here a question in the spirit of our current political situation in the country.
Are we better off than we were four years ago??
Yes. Although it doesn't show in the standings.
Two games don't make a season. Both games with actually could have gone either way.
I'm of the school of thought that if we could play ISU 12 times this season we'd win probably 10 times.
For those not into statistics and probablity, games are essentially chance events, not pure chance like the lottery or rolling dice, but it is still probablity, none the less.
Last night a weakened Boston Red Sox team beat the Yankees.
In baseball a very good team might win say 12 of 18 games vs. a clearly inferior team during their season series.
ISU would not be able to repeat their ZERO penalties performance and I'd love to see some statistics of how often this happens in FBS football.
We also had 5 turnovers and they 2.
We lost to a team with 2 turnovers and ZERO penalities. ISU, with those numbers, would have beaten a lot of FBS teams Saturday.
I wish I would have posted my pre-season 'probabilities' of victory for each game:
Maybe something like:
BSU game 40%
ISU game 80 - 85%
Purdue game 10%
MSU game 5%
Kent game maybe 50+ %
Based on this line of thought, we'd probably beat EITHER BSU or KENT, but not both.
Maybe take CMU and Army, We'd probably beat EITHER CMU or ARMY, but a slim chance of both.
Maybe we'd been more realistic and said last year's team was really good enough to win FIVE game, not six.
Maybe winning four or five games this year would be as good as six last season.
The only true realism I saw on this board were those who thought that this year's scdedule was brutal with only ISU and maybe CMU being considered weak.
No, neither game could have gone either way. EMU lost by double digits in both. This team collapsed in the 2nd half in both games not because of unforeseen circumstances, but because of ineptitude. A game “going either way” insinuates that the games were between evenly matched squads. They were not. Eastern was significantly worse than both ISU and Ball State.
Late in the 1st half, I thought EMU had ISU 'on the run'.
When someone says the game 'could have gone either way' that doesn't necessarily imply the game was tied with 5 minutes to go and one team won out.
To me, a team going for a TD and gets a turnover and the other team goes down field and scores a TD, resulting in a 14 point swing.
Lot of 14-point games 'could have gone either way..."
I think you are being overly generous. To use a basketball phrase,EMU did make a run, but like in the game versus Ball State, it was short lived. ISU, again like BSU, dominated in the second half. That tells me EMU is not a good team at all for even halfway decent teams find ways to stem momentum. EMU never showed any ability to staunch the bleeding.
(09-12-2012 04:18 PM)wolverineeagle Wrote: [ -> ] (09-12-2012 02:20 PM)emu steve Wrote: [ -> ] (09-12-2012 02:06 PM)wolverineeagle Wrote: [ -> ] (09-12-2012 09:56 AM)emu steve Wrote: [ -> ] (09-09-2012 02:13 PM)realistEagle Wrote: [ -> ]As my first post to this board I would like to ask all of the fans gathered here a question in the spirit of our current political situation in the country.
Are we better off than we were four years ago??
Yes. Although it doesn't show in the standings.
Two games don't make a season. Both games with actually could have gone either way.
I'm of the school of thought that if we could play ISU 12 times this season we'd win probably 10 times.
For those not into statistics and probablity, games are essentially chance events, not pure chance like the lottery or rolling dice, but it is still probablity, none the less.
Last night a weakened Boston Red Sox team beat the Yankees.
In baseball a very good team might win say 12 of 18 games vs. a clearly inferior team during their season series.
ISU would not be able to repeat their ZERO penalties performance and I'd love to see some statistics of how often this happens in FBS football.
We also had 5 turnovers and they 2.
We lost to a team with 2 turnovers and ZERO penalities. ISU, with those numbers, would have beaten a lot of FBS teams Saturday.
I wish I would have posted my pre-season 'probabilities' of victory for each game:
Maybe something like:
BSU game 40%
ISU game 80 - 85%
Purdue game 10%
MSU game 5%
Kent game maybe 50+ %
Based on this line of thought, we'd probably beat EITHER BSU or KENT, but not both.
Maybe take CMU and Army, We'd probably beat EITHER CMU or ARMY, but a slim chance of both.
Maybe we'd been more realistic and said last year's team was really good enough to win FIVE game, not six.
Maybe winning four or five games this year would be as good as six last season.
The only true realism I saw on this board were those who thought that this year's scdedule was brutal with only ISU and maybe CMU being considered weak.
No, neither game could have gone either way. EMU lost by double digits in both. This team collapsed in the 2nd half in both games not because of unforeseen circumstances, but because of ineptitude. A game “going either way” insinuates that the games were between evenly matched squads. They were not. Eastern was significantly worse than both ISU and Ball State.
Late in the 1st half, I thought EMU had ISU 'on the run'.
When someone says the game 'could have gone either way' that doesn't necessarily imply the game was tied with 5 minutes to go and one team won out.
To me, a team going for a TD and gets a turnover and the other team goes down field and scores a TD, resulting in a 14 point swing.
Lot of 14-point games 'could have gone either way..."
I think you are being overly generous. To use a basketball phrase,EMU did make a run, but like in the game versus Ball State, it was short lived. ISU, again like BSU, dominated in the second half. That tells me EMU is not a good team at all for even halfway decent teams find ways to stem momentum. EMU never showed any side of staunching the bleeding.
EmuSteve,
I think he has a couple good points.. The ISU was the 1st game where I didn't think we played with a fighting spirit. I know that the HC said the defense played well but I watched the game over and over again and didnt see the effort as a team.. I didnt see people trying to force their will on people. Here is something I thougt about last night..
Who is the leader on this team? On the offense side of the ball? We know who is supposes to be on defense Curworth, (even if he has not had his best game yet). I know everyone want to say Gillett, he may be a leader but if the player dont believe in him who is he leading? Leader has to have the repect of their team and maybe this is not happening.. I am not saying it Gillett fault.. He must be placed in a position to be successful and when he is being asked to handle 2 and 8, it doesnt help anyone out.
English said in one of his press conferences, He has seen this before in 2007 at Michigan.. So I did some research (similar to EmuSteve) and a few things that jumped out to me via Google, there was things about players getting high, team-mates not getting along, coaches and players not seeing eye-to-eye on things.. Is this what he meant?
I am not saying this is what is happening with this team but English made the statement.. Maybe I am reading too much into this..
Wolverineeagle, here is your chance to provide some deep information to the group, can you share what you think it is or what our HC meant? I understand you were following the Michigan program at this time.
Before everyone start saying I am again jumping on Gillett (Bob), this is not what I am doing.. I am just asking a question.
(09-12-2012 05:03 PM)NUPudge Wrote: [ -> ] (09-12-2012 04:18 PM)wolverineeagle Wrote: [ -> ] (09-12-2012 02:20 PM)emu steve Wrote: [ -> ] (09-12-2012 02:06 PM)wolverineeagle Wrote: [ -> ] (09-12-2012 09:56 AM)emu steve Wrote: [ -> ]Yes. Although it doesn't show in the standings.
Two games don't make a season. Both games with actually could have gone either way.
I'm of the school of thought that if we could play ISU 12 times this season we'd win probably 10 times.
For those not into statistics and probablity, games are essentially chance events, not pure chance like the lottery or rolling dice, but it is still probablity, none the less.
Last night a weakened Boston Red Sox team beat the Yankees.
In baseball a very good team might win say 12 of 18 games vs. a clearly inferior team during their season series.
ISU would not be able to repeat their ZERO penalties performance and I'd love to see some statistics of how often this happens in FBS football.
We also had 5 turnovers and they 2.
We lost to a team with 2 turnovers and ZERO penalities. ISU, with those numbers, would have beaten a lot of FBS teams Saturday.
I wish I would have posted my pre-season 'probabilities' of victory for each game:
Maybe something like:
BSU game 40%
ISU game 80 - 85%
Purdue game 10%
MSU game 5%
Kent game maybe 50+ %
Based on this line of thought, we'd probably beat EITHER BSU or KENT, but not both.
Maybe take CMU and Army, We'd probably beat EITHER CMU or ARMY, but a slim chance of both.
Maybe we'd been more realistic and said last year's team was really good enough to win FIVE game, not six.
Maybe winning four or five games this year would be as good as six last season.
The only true realism I saw on this board were those who thought that this year's scdedule was brutal with only ISU and maybe CMU being considered weak.
No, neither game could have gone either way. EMU lost by double digits in both. This team collapsed in the 2nd half in both games not because of unforeseen circumstances, but because of ineptitude. A game “going either way” insinuates that the games were between evenly matched squads. They were not. Eastern was significantly worse than both ISU and Ball State.
Late in the 1st half, I thought EMU had ISU 'on the run'.
When someone says the game 'could have gone either way' that doesn't necessarily imply the game was tied with 5 minutes to go and one team won out.
To me, a team going for a TD and gets a turnover and the other team goes down field and scores a TD, resulting in a 14 point swing.
Lot of 14-point games 'could have gone either way..."
I think you are being overly generous. To use a basketball phrase,EMU did make a run, but like in the game versus Ball State, it was short lived. ISU, again like BSU, dominated in the second half. That tells me EMU is not a good team at all for even halfway decent teams find ways to stem momentum. EMU never showed any side of staunching the bleeding.
EmuSteve,
I think he has a couple good points.. The ISU was the 1st game where I didn't think we played with a fighting spirit. I know that the HC said the defense played well but I watched the game over and over again and didnt see the effort as a team.. I didnt see people trying to force their will on people. Here is something I thougt about last night..
Who is the leader on this team? On the offense side of the ball? We know who is supposes to be on defense Curworth, (even if he has not had his best game yet). I know everyone want to say Gillett, he may be a leader but if the player dont believe in him who is he leading? Leader has to have the repect of their team and maybe this is not happening.. I am not saying it Gillett fault.. He must be placed in a position to be successful and when he is being asked to handle 2 and 8, it doesnt help anyone out.
English said in one of his press conferences, He has seen this before in 2007 at Michigan.. So I did some research (similar to EmuSteve) and a few things that jumped out to me via Google, there was things about players getting high, team-mates not getting along, coaches and players not seeing eye-to-eye on things.. Is this what he meant?
I am not saying this is what is happening with this team but English made the statement.. Maybe I am reading too much into this..
Wolverineeagle, here is your chance to provide some deep information to the group, can you share what you think it is or what our HC meant? I understand you were following the Michigan program at this time.
Before everyone start saying I am again jumping on Gillett (Bob), this is not what I am doing.. I am just asking a question.
The discussion about drug use before Appy State comes from a writer who is nearly universally loathed in the UM community. However, I have heard reports that support a conclusion that UM was not prepared to play that game. Lack of a game plan for one thing.
What probably happened in 07’(pure conjecture on my part) is that everyone within the program knew that it was Lloyd’s last year. Lloyd not having the energy to run a program anyone slacked off and everything went to hell. In that context rampant drug use is definitely feasible, though no current UM reporter will even as much consider such a possibility in writing.
If English is seeing the same thing here then that damns him even more for it is his duty as HC to control his program and to instill within his players sense of responsibility to themselves and to their teammates. Obviously, we cannot expect him to prevent individual mistakes, but if this is team-wide then English has a serious issue on his hand. An issue that directly threatens his job security.
Oh sheesh, let's not jump to conclusions! I'm sure that's not the case and Pudge, leave Gillett alone!!!!! (kidding).
(09-12-2012 09:56 AM)emu steve Wrote: [ -> ]For those not into statistics and probablity, games are essentially chance events, not pure chance like the lottery or rolling dice, but it is still probablity, none the less.
Last night a weakened Boston Red Sox team beat the Yankees.
In baseball a very good team might win say 12 of 18 games vs. a clearly inferior team during their season series.
Interesting that you bring this up, because I've almost posted something about it several times. This basically goes to the theory underpinning English's offensive strategy.
If you think about any game of chance (even as simple as just a single roll of dice or even a single coin flip), if you repeat it many times, you'll see a distribution fairly close to what you'd expect. For example, if you flip a fair coin 1000 times, you're probably going to be reasonably close to 50% heads, and they odds of getting something like 75% heads are very low. (There is a formula, called the Poisson distribution, to figure out the actual likelihood of that, but I don't remember it, and it's beside the point.) On the other hand, if you flip a coin just four times, you have a reasonably good shot (about 1/3) of getting three heads flips. This is called the law of small numbers.
So, applying that to sports, treat each possession in a football game as a flip of a slightly weighted coin. Imagine that heads represents EMU, while tails is Purdue, but instead of a 50/50 coin, you have a 40% chance of heads and a 60% chance of tails. If you have a relatively small number of flips (possessions), there is a greater possibility of getting an outlier (a result other than the 40/60 you'd expect), but the more times you flip (the more possessions you play), they more likely the result is to approach the "expected" result.
In other words, by running the ball so much, you keep the clock moving, and reduce the total number of possessions, which gives you, as an underdog, more of a chance for an abnormal result (upset). More possessions is like more flips of the coin, and the longer you go on, the more likely the "normal" result (or something near it) becomes.
(09-12-2012 06:04 PM)wolverineeagle Wrote: [ -> ] (09-12-2012 05:03 PM)NUPudge Wrote: [ -> ] (09-12-2012 04:18 PM)wolverineeagle Wrote: [ -> ] (09-12-2012 02:20 PM)emu steve Wrote: [ -> ] (09-12-2012 02:06 PM)wolverineeagle Wrote: [ -> ]No, neither game could have gone either way. EMU lost by double digits in both. This team collapsed in the 2nd half in both games not because of unforeseen circumstances, but because of ineptitude. A game “going either way” insinuates that the games were between evenly matched squads. They were not. Eastern was significantly worse than both ISU and Ball State.
Late in the 1st half, I thought EMU had ISU 'on the run'.
When someone says the game 'could have gone either way' that doesn't necessarily imply the game was tied with 5 minutes to go and one team won out.
To me, a team going for a TD and gets a turnover and the other team goes down field and scores a TD, resulting in a 14 point swing.
Lot of 14-point games 'could have gone either way..."
I think you are being overly generous. To use a basketball phrase,EMU did make a run, but like in the game versus Ball State, it was short lived. ISU, again like BSU, dominated in the second half. That tells me EMU is not a good team at all for even halfway decent teams find ways to stem momentum. EMU never showed any side of staunching the bleeding.
EmuSteve,
I think he has a couple good points.. The ISU was the 1st game where I didn't think we played with a fighting spirit. I know that the HC said the defense played well but I watched the game over and over again and didnt see the effort as a team.. I didnt see people trying to force their will on people. Here is something I thougt about last night..
Who is the leader on this team? On the offense side of the ball? We know who is supposes to be on defense Curworth, (even if he has not had his best game yet). I know everyone want to say Gillett, he may be a leader but if the player dont believe in him who is he leading? Leader has to have the repect of their team and maybe this is not happening.. I am not saying it Gillett fault.. He must be placed in a position to be successful and when he is being asked to handle 2 and 8, it doesnt help anyone out.
English said in one of his press conferences, He has seen this before in 2007 at Michigan.. So I did some research (similar to EmuSteve) and a few things that jumped out to me via Google, there was things about players getting high, team-mates not getting along, coaches and players not seeing eye-to-eye on things.. Is this what he meant?
I am not saying this is what is happening with this team but English made the statement.. Maybe I am reading too much into this..
Wolverineeagle, here is your chance to provide some deep information to the group, can you share what you think it is or what our HC meant? I understand you were following the Michigan program at this time.
Before everyone start saying I am again jumping on Gillett (Bob), this is not what I am doing.. I am just asking a question.
The discussion about drug use before Appy State comes from a writer who is nearly universally loathed in the UM community. However, I have heard reports that support a conclusion that UM was not prepared to play that game. Lack of a game plan for one thing.
What probably happened in 07’(pure conjecture on my part) is that everyone within the program knew that it was Lloyd’s last year. Lloyd not having the energy to run a program anyone slacked off and everything went to hell. In that context rampant drug use is definitely feasible, though no current UM reporter will even as much consider such a possibility in writing.
If English is seeing the same thing here than that damns him even more for it is his duty as HC to control his program and to instill within his players sense of responsibility to themselves and to their teammates. Obviously, we cannot expect him to prevent individual mistakes, but if this is team-wide than English has a serious issue on his hand. An issue that directly threatens his job security.
Wolverineeagle,
Thanks for the information and education.. I didn't know Michigan had issues at one time also.. I guess this is just part of building a program.. I hope EMU get close to the level of Michigan, but still kick their butts when we play against them..
This is what I meant when I said you have a good heart and bring value to our EMu board.. When we go to a bowl game, drinks on me.. This will also allow for me to brag about NU kicking you guys azz.. :-)
(09-13-2012 08:49 AM)NUPudge Wrote: [ -> ] (09-12-2012 06:04 PM)wolverineeagle Wrote: [ -> ] (09-12-2012 05:03 PM)NUPudge Wrote: [ -> ] (09-12-2012 04:18 PM)wolverineeagle Wrote: [ -> ] (09-12-2012 02:20 PM)emu steve Wrote: [ -> ]Late in the 1st half, I thought EMU had ISU 'on the run'.
When someone says the game 'could have gone either way' that doesn't necessarily imply the game was tied with 5 minutes to go and one team won out.
To me, a team going for a TD and gets a turnover and the other team goes down field and scores a TD, resulting in a 14 point swing.
Lot of 14-point games 'could have gone either way..."
I think you are being overly generous. To use a basketball phrase,EMU did make a run, but like in the game versus Ball State, it was short lived. ISU, again like BSU, dominated in the second half. That tells me EMU is not a good team at all for even halfway decent teams find ways to stem momentum. EMU never showed any side of staunching the bleeding.
EmuSteve,
I think he has a couple good points.. The ISU was the 1st game where I didn't think we played with a fighting spirit. I know that the HC said the defense played well but I watched the game over and over again and didnt see the effort as a team.. I didnt see people trying to force their will on people. Here is something I thougt about last night..
Who is the leader on this team? On the offense side of the ball? We know who is supposes to be on defense Curworth, (even if he has not had his best game yet). I know everyone want to say Gillett, he may be a leader but if the player dont believe in him who is he leading? Leader has to have the repect of their team and maybe this is not happening.. I am not saying it Gillett fault.. He must be placed in a position to be successful and when he is being asked to handle 2 and 8, it doesnt help anyone out.
English said in one of his press conferences, He has seen this before in 2007 at Michigan.. So I did some research (similar to EmuSteve) and a few things that jumped out to me via Google, there was things about players getting high, team-mates not getting along, coaches and players not seeing eye-to-eye on things.. Is this what he meant?
I am not saying this is what is happening with this team but English made the statement.. Maybe I am reading too much into this..
Wolverineeagle, here is your chance to provide some deep information to the group, can you share what you think it is or what our HC meant? I understand you were following the Michigan program at this time.
Before everyone start saying I am again jumping on Gillett (Bob), this is not what I am doing.. I am just asking a question.
The discussion about drug use before Appy State comes from a writer who is nearly universally loathed in the UM community. However, I have heard reports that support a conclusion that UM was not prepared to play that game. Lack of a game plan for one thing.
What probably happened in 07’(pure conjecture on my part) is that everyone within the program knew that it was Lloyd’s last year. Lloyd not having the energy to run a program anyone slacked off and everything went to hell. In that context rampant drug use is definitely feasible, though no current UM reporter will even as much consider such a possibility in writing.
If English is seeing the same thing here than that damns him even more for it is his duty as HC to control his program and to instill within his players sense of responsibility to themselves and to their teammates. Obviously, we cannot expect him to prevent individual mistakes, but if this is team-wide than English has a serious issue on his hand. An issue that directly threatens his job security.
Wolverineeagle,
Thanks for the information and education.. I didn't know Michigan had issues at one time also.. I guess this is just part of building a program.. I hope EMU get close to the level of Michigan, but still kick their butts when we play against them..
This is what I meant when I said you have a good heart and bring value to our EMu board.. When we go to a bowl game, drinks on me.. This will also allow for me to brag about NU kicking you guys azz.. :-)
Well, to be fair UM’s program was built already. In UM’s case it was an older coach who had lost control to some extent.WHile not as bad as Paterno or Bowden it seems clear that Lloyd no longer had the energy to sustain the program.
I will give English a lot of credit for being so forthwith about the issues. You rarely see a coach be so honest. I also see it as a positive that he has identified the problem. They say the first step to recovery is to admit that you have a problem.
Dear cmadler,
I like the way you described the odds of any probability. I also agree with the comparison to running the ball to eliminate the other team from getting more chances in those odds, but here is the rub with me. Eastern's running game has not kept the opposing team off the field, and therefore needs something else to help sustain those odds. We have all suggested more passing on first or second down regardless of the yardage needed. I know besides calling for Karcher to be removed, I have suggested reverses, maybe a true option play that Air Force ran against Michigan, true screen passes, etc. The other teams know what we are going to do seventy percent of the time, so it becomes easy to defend for their defense. Maybe this is why there may be a morale problem. The team is working hard, but have no confidence in the play calling.