(07-24-2012 11:16 AM)Ragu Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2012 07:34 AM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]If we are talking about adding schools and need to get to 16 (assuming the ACC has to invite Notre Dame), the best thing we could do would be to trade Florida State to the SEC for South Carolina and Vanderbilt.
I'll sign off on that.
I've noticed that these types of posts tend to come from people who are fans of a certain school but have not actually attended the school in question. Therefore, they care deeply about the football team only and don't give any thought at all to the well being of the institution itself. I don't know if you are a FSU grad or not, but I am a firm believer of the idea that you are as good as the company you keep.
For me, I'm very pleased that Pitt is in the ACC. My biggest joy in this is not because it is better for Pitt's athletic teams (which it is, of course) but mostly because I feel that Pitt is now in a conference of its peers. These peer relationships will, IMO, result in Pitt improving itself even more on the academic front. Being an alumnus of Pitt, this is what I want for me school more than anything else. I want it to be looked at as a top notch academic institution. I will bet that if you ask most FSU alumni that they too would appreciate the connections that FSU has with the other ACC schools because these associations have a net benefit on FSU academics. I applaud those fans who didn't graduate from my school but still care enough about my school to realize that the institution itself is by far the most important thing while its football program is a distant second. A strong university translates into a good local economy. Think about it.
(07-24-2012 12:08 PM)miko33 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2012 11:16 AM)Ragu Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2012 07:34 AM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]If we are talking about adding schools and need to get to 16 (assuming the ACC has to invite Notre Dame), the best thing we could do would be to trade Florida State to the SEC for South Carolina and Vanderbilt.
I'll sign off on that.
I've noticed that these types of posts tend to come from people who are fans of a certain school but have not actually attended the school in question. Therefore, they care deeply about the football team only and don't give any thought at all to the well being of the institution itself. I don't know if you are a FSU grad or not, but I am a firm believer of the idea that you are as good as the company you keep.
For me, I'm very pleased that Pitt is in the ACC. My biggest joy in this is not because it is better for Pitt's athletic teams (which it is, of course) but mostly because I feel that Pitt is now in a conference of its peers. These peer relationships will, IMO, result in Pitt improving itself even more on the academic front. Being an alumnus of Pitt, this is what I want for me school more than anything else. I want it to be looked at as a top notch academic institution. I will bet that if you ask most FSU alumni that they too would appreciate the connections that FSU has with the other ACC schools because these associations have a net benefit on FSU academics. I applaud those fans who didn't graduate from my school but still care enough about my school to realize that the institution itself is by far the most important thing while its football program is a distant second. A strong university translates into a good local economy. Think about it.
This is an athletic conference. Florida State doesn't get better academically just because they are in the same athletic conference as North Carolina or Duke.
I like all FSU sports. I grew up an FSU fan and then went to FAU. Using your logic, nobody can be a fan of a college team until they are old enough to attend a school. But I do care about the school as well. My one side of the family is split between FSU and UF. My niece will be at FSU in a few years.
(07-24-2012 02:07 PM)Ragu Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2012 12:08 PM)miko33 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2012 11:16 AM)Ragu Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2012 07:34 AM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]If we are talking about adding schools and need to get to 16 (assuming the ACC has to invite Notre Dame), the best thing we could do would be to trade Florida State to the SEC for South Carolina and Vanderbilt.
I'll sign off on that.
I've noticed that these types of posts tend to come from people who are fans of a certain school but have not actually attended the school in question. Therefore, they care deeply about the football team only and don't give any thought at all to the well being of the institution itself. I don't know if you are a FSU grad or not, but I am a firm believer of the idea that you are as good as the company you keep.
For me, I'm very pleased that Pitt is in the ACC. My biggest joy in this is not because it is better for Pitt's athletic teams (which it is, of course) but mostly because I feel that Pitt is now in a conference of its peers. These peer relationships will, IMO, result in Pitt improving itself even more on the academic front. Being an alumnus of Pitt, this is what I want for me school more than anything else. I want it to be looked at as a top notch academic institution. I will bet that if you ask most FSU alumni that they too would appreciate the connections that FSU has with the other ACC schools because these associations have a net benefit on FSU academics. I applaud those fans who didn't graduate from my school but still care enough about my school to realize that the institution itself is by far the most important thing while its football program is a distant second. A strong university translates into a good local economy. Think about it.
This is an athletic conference. Florida State doesn't get better academically just because they are in the same athletic conference as North Carolina or Duke.
I like all FSU sports. I grew up an FSU fan and then went to FAU. Using your logic, nobody can be a fan of a college team until they are old enough to attend a school. But I do care about the school as well. My one side of the family is split between FSU and UF. My niece will be at FSU in a few years.
Florida State's perception academically increased greatly by being in the ACC.
If you believe otherwise, you don't understand how these things work.
Cheers,
Neil
(07-24-2012 02:42 PM)omniorange Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2012 02:07 PM)Ragu Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2012 12:08 PM)miko33 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2012 11:16 AM)Ragu Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2012 07:34 AM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]If we are talking about adding schools and need to get to 16 (assuming the ACC has to invite Notre Dame), the best thing we could do would be to trade Florida State to the SEC for South Carolina and Vanderbilt.
I'll sign off on that.
I've noticed that these types of posts tend to come from people who are fans of a certain school but have not actually attended the school in question. Therefore, they care deeply about the football team only and don't give any thought at all to the well being of the institution itself. I don't know if you are a FSU grad or not, but I am a firm believer of the idea that you are as good as the company you keep.
For me, I'm very pleased that Pitt is in the ACC. My biggest joy in this is not because it is better for Pitt's athletic teams (which it is, of course) but mostly because I feel that Pitt is now in a conference of its peers. These peer relationships will, IMO, result in Pitt improving itself even more on the academic front. Being an alumnus of Pitt, this is what I want for me school more than anything else. I want it to be looked at as a top notch academic institution. I will bet that if you ask most FSU alumni that they too would appreciate the connections that FSU has with the other ACC schools because these associations have a net benefit on FSU academics. I applaud those fans who didn't graduate from my school but still care enough about my school to realize that the institution itself is by far the most important thing while its football program is a distant second. A strong university translates into a good local economy. Think about it.
This is an athletic conference. Florida State doesn't get better academically just because they are in the same athletic conference as North Carolina or Duke.
I like all FSU sports. I grew up an FSU fan and then went to FAU. Using your logic, nobody can be a fan of a college team until they are old enough to attend a school. But I do care about the school as well. My one side of the family is split between FSU and UF. My niece will be at FSU in a few years.
Florida State's perception academically increased greatly by being in the ACC.
If you believe otherwise, you don't understand how these things work.
Cheers,
Neil
So I guess Vanderbilt's perception slipped because of being with some academically inferior schools in the SEC.
(07-24-2012 03:28 PM)Ragu Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2012 02:42 PM)omniorange Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2012 02:07 PM)Ragu Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2012 12:08 PM)miko33 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2012 11:16 AM)Ragu Wrote: [ -> ]I'll sign off on that.
I've noticed that these types of posts tend to come from people who are fans of a certain school but have not actually attended the school in question. Therefore, they care deeply about the football team only and don't give any thought at all to the well being of the institution itself. I don't know if you are a FSU grad or not, but I am a firm believer of the idea that you are as good as the company you keep.
For me, I'm very pleased that Pitt is in the ACC. My biggest joy in this is not because it is better for Pitt's athletic teams (which it is, of course) but mostly because I feel that Pitt is now in a conference of its peers. These peer relationships will, IMO, result in Pitt improving itself even more on the academic front. Being an alumnus of Pitt, this is what I want for me school more than anything else. I want it to be looked at as a top notch academic institution. I will bet that if you ask most FSU alumni that they too would appreciate the connections that FSU has with the other ACC schools because these associations have a net benefit on FSU academics. I applaud those fans who didn't graduate from my school but still care enough about my school to realize that the institution itself is by far the most important thing while its football program is a distant second. A strong university translates into a good local economy. Think about it.
This is an athletic conference. Florida State doesn't get better academically just because they are in the same athletic conference as North Carolina or Duke.
I like all FSU sports. I grew up an FSU fan and then went to FAU. Using your logic, nobody can be a fan of a college team until they are old enough to attend a school. But I do care about the school as well. My one side of the family is split between FSU and UF. My niece will be at FSU in a few years.
Florida State's perception academically increased greatly by being in the ACC.
If you believe otherwise, you don't understand how these things work.
Cheers,
Neil
So I guess Vanderbilt's perception slipped because of being with some academically inferior schools in the SEC.
Your logic doesn't work on this front or where you say you guess that someone can't be a fan of a team despite not being an alumni. Miko said no such thing. He just said that alumni have a more vested interest in the instution while fans generally do not. He even mentioned that he applauds fans of Pitt who aren't alumni (as most of us do...there simply aren't that many).
Secondly, you attempt to take the argument that being grouped with better academic schools can help make an institution better academically and then change it to be that a school who has good academics would falter academically simply by being paired with schools of lesser standing. It shouldn't be hard to see the fault in this logic - it's up to the school to get better. When a school is paired with institutions who are of higher standing, though, generally they strive to get better. Schools who are already in the upper echelon generally continue to strive at being the best, much like Vanderbilt.
(07-24-2012 03:28 PM)Ragu Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2012 02:42 PM)omniorange Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2012 02:07 PM)Ragu Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2012 12:08 PM)miko33 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2012 11:16 AM)Ragu Wrote: [ -> ]I'll sign off on that.
I've noticed that these types of posts tend to come from people who are fans of a certain school but have not actually attended the school in question. Therefore, they care deeply about the football team only and don't give any thought at all to the well being of the institution itself. I don't know if you are a FSU grad or not, but I am a firm believer of the idea that you are as good as the company you keep.
For me, I'm very pleased that Pitt is in the ACC. My biggest joy in this is not because it is better for Pitt's athletic teams (which it is, of course) but mostly because I feel that Pitt is now in a conference of its peers. These peer relationships will, IMO, result in Pitt improving itself even more on the academic front. Being an alumnus of Pitt, this is what I want for me school more than anything else. I want it to be looked at as a top notch academic institution. I will bet that if you ask most FSU alumni that they too would appreciate the connections that FSU has with the other ACC schools because these associations have a net benefit on FSU academics. I applaud those fans who didn't graduate from my school but still care enough about my school to realize that the institution itself is by far the most important thing while its football program is a distant second. A strong university translates into a good local economy. Think about it.
This is an athletic conference. Florida State doesn't get better academically just because they are in the same athletic conference as North Carolina or Duke.
I like all FSU sports. I grew up an FSU fan and then went to FAU. Using your logic, nobody can be a fan of a college team until they are old enough to attend a school. But I do care about the school as well. My one side of the family is split between FSU and UF. My niece will be at FSU in a few years.
Florida State's perception academically increased greatly by being in the ACC.
If you believe otherwise, you don't understand how these things work.
Cheers,
Neil
So I guess Vanderbilt's perception slipped because of being with some academically inferior schools in the SEC.
More like it is holding them back from collaborative research projects with like minded institutions.
(07-24-2012 04:04 PM)TexanMark Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2012 03:28 PM)Ragu Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2012 02:42 PM)omniorange Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2012 02:07 PM)Ragu Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2012 12:08 PM)miko33 Wrote: [ -> ]I've noticed that these types of posts tend to come from people who are fans of a certain school but have not actually attended the school in question. Therefore, they care deeply about the football team only and don't give any thought at all to the well being of the institution itself. I don't know if you are a FSU grad or not, but I am a firm believer of the idea that you are as good as the company you keep.
For me, I'm very pleased that Pitt is in the ACC. My biggest joy in this is not because it is better for Pitt's athletic teams (which it is, of course) but mostly because I feel that Pitt is now in a conference of its peers. These peer relationships will, IMO, result in Pitt improving itself even more on the academic front. Being an alumnus of Pitt, this is what I want for me school more than anything else. I want it to be looked at as a top notch academic institution. I will bet that if you ask most FSU alumni that they too would appreciate the connections that FSU has with the other ACC schools because these associations have a net benefit on FSU academics. I applaud those fans who didn't graduate from my school but still care enough about my school to realize that the institution itself is by far the most important thing while its football program is a distant second. A strong university translates into a good local economy. Think about it.
This is an athletic conference. Florida State doesn't get better academically just because they are in the same athletic conference as North Carolina or Duke.
I like all FSU sports. I grew up an FSU fan and then went to FAU. Using your logic, nobody can be a fan of a college team until they are old enough to attend a school. But I do care about the school as well. My one side of the family is split between FSU and UF. My niece will be at FSU in a few years.
Florida State's perception academically increased greatly by being in the ACC.
If you believe otherwise, you don't understand how these things work.
Cheers,
Neil
So I guess Vanderbilt's perception slipped because of being with some academically inferior schools in the SEC.
More like it is holding them back from collaborative research projects with like minded institutions.
That's why they are in the AAU. However for a school like FSU that isn't in the AAU, it probably helps that they are in a conference like the ACC.
(07-24-2012 04:01 PM)ndlutz Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2012 03:28 PM)Ragu Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2012 02:42 PM)omniorange Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2012 02:07 PM)Ragu Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2012 12:08 PM)miko33 Wrote: [ -> ]I've noticed that these types of posts tend to come from people who are fans of a certain school but have not actually attended the school in question. Therefore, they care deeply about the football team only and don't give any thought at all to the well being of the institution itself. I don't know if you are a FSU grad or not, but I am a firm believer of the idea that you are as good as the company you keep.
For me, I'm very pleased that Pitt is in the ACC. My biggest joy in this is not because it is better for Pitt's athletic teams (which it is, of course) but mostly because I feel that Pitt is now in a conference of its peers. These peer relationships will, IMO, result in Pitt improving itself even more on the academic front. Being an alumnus of Pitt, this is what I want for me school more than anything else. I want it to be looked at as a top notch academic institution. I will bet that if you ask most FSU alumni that they too would appreciate the connections that FSU has with the other ACC schools because these associations have a net benefit on FSU academics. I applaud those fans who didn't graduate from my school but still care enough about my school to realize that the institution itself is by far the most important thing while its football program is a distant second. A strong university translates into a good local economy. Think about it.
This is an athletic conference. Florida State doesn't get better academically just because they are in the same athletic conference as North Carolina or Duke.
I like all FSU sports. I grew up an FSU fan and then went to FAU. Using your logic, nobody can be a fan of a college team until they are old enough to attend a school. But I do care about the school as well. My one side of the family is split between FSU and UF. My niece will be at FSU in a few years.
Florida State's perception academically increased greatly by being in the ACC.
If you believe otherwise, you don't understand how these things work.
Cheers,
Neil
So I guess Vanderbilt's perception slipped because of being with some academically inferior schools in the SEC.
Your logic doesn't work on this front or where you say you guess that someone can't be a fan of a team despite not being an alumni. Miko said no such thing. He just said that alumni have a more vested interest in the instution while fans generally do not. He even mentioned that he applauds fans of Pitt who aren't alumni (as most of us do...there simply aren't that many).
Secondly, you attempt to take the argument that being grouped with better academic schools can help make an institution better academically and then change it to be that a school who has good academics would falter academically simply by being paired with schools of lesser standing. It shouldn't be hard to see the fault in this logic - it's up to the school to get better. When a school is paired with institutions who are of higher standing, though, generally they strive to get better. Schools who are already in the upper echelon generally continue to strive at being the best, much like Vanderbilt.
Don't agree with all the logic but I will agree to disagree on those points. I will say that plenty of alumni of schools can care less about sports as well. And I do care about the university as a whole for reasons I said above. I just don't think an athletic conference has done much to improve its standing. They are about where they have always been.
(07-24-2012 07:22 PM)Ragu Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2012 04:01 PM)ndlutz Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2012 03:28 PM)Ragu Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2012 02:42 PM)omniorange Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2012 02:07 PM)Ragu Wrote: [ -> ]This is an athletic conference. Florida State doesn't get better academically just because they are in the same athletic conference as North Carolina or Duke.
I like all FSU sports. I grew up an FSU fan and then went to FAU. Using your logic, nobody can be a fan of a college team until they are old enough to attend a school. But I do care about the school as well. My one side of the family is split between FSU and UF. My niece will be at FSU in a few years.
Florida State's perception academically increased greatly by being in the ACC.
If you believe otherwise, you don't understand how these things work.
Cheers,
Neil
So I guess Vanderbilt's perception slipped because of being with some academically inferior schools in the SEC.
Your logic doesn't work on this front or where you say you guess that someone can't be a fan of a team despite not being an alumni. Miko said no such thing. He just said that alumni have a more vested interest in the instution while fans generally do not. He even mentioned that he applauds fans of Pitt who aren't alumni (as most of us do...there simply aren't that many).
Secondly, you attempt to take the argument that being grouped with better academic schools can help make an institution better academically and then change it to be that a school who has good academics would falter academically simply by being paired with schools of lesser standing. It shouldn't be hard to see the fault in this logic - it's up to the school to get better. When a school is paired with institutions who are of higher standing, though, generally they strive to get better. Schools who are already in the upper echelon generally continue to strive at being the best, much like Vanderbilt.
Don't agree with all the logic but I will agree to disagree on those points. I will say that plenty of alumni of schools can care less about sports as well. And I do care about the university as a whole for reasons I said above. I just don't think an athletic conference has done much to improve its standing. They are about where they have always been.
A number of people in this thread have explained my position on this quite well - thanks guys for that. My point is not that being in conference with Duke means that FSU will automatically become an academic juggernaut by associations alone. The truth is that the relationships do matter. First, being associated with highly ranked schools does provide incentives to strive for improvement on their own front from an academic standpoint. Also, don't discount the idea of being in an athletic conference with schools like Duke, UNC and UVA (among the others) doesn't also helping FSU on the academic front due to the ability to collaborate on other projects. Some of the athletic conferences, to your point, see themselves as nothing more than conduits for the athletic departments of these schools to compete against each other. Other conferences, like the B1G and the ACC, have deeper connections among the schools than just athletics. They also have associations on the academic fronts. Just ask the FSU professors and school leaders how being associated with the ACC schools helpls FSU academically. It's no accident that the FSU president came out very publicly in favor of FSU remaining in the ACC. Why do you think he did that? Hint: it was the academic connections that FSU built with the other ACC schools through the athletic conference. Notice how FSU academics took off after it joined the ACC? That was no accident.
Didn't FSU just open a Med School within the last few years? That's pretty large.
(07-24-2012 07:43 PM)miko33 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2012 07:22 PM)Ragu Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2012 04:01 PM)ndlutz Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2012 03:28 PM)Ragu Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2012 02:42 PM)omniorange Wrote: [ -> ]Florida State's perception academically increased greatly by being in the ACC.
If you believe otherwise, you don't understand how these things work.
Cheers,
Neil
So I guess Vanderbilt's perception slipped because of being with some academically inferior schools in the SEC.
Your logic doesn't work on this front or where you say you guess that someone can't be a fan of a team despite not being an alumni. Miko said no such thing. He just said that alumni have a more vested interest in the instution while fans generally do not. He even mentioned that he applauds fans of Pitt who aren't alumni (as most of us do...there simply aren't that many).
Secondly, you attempt to take the argument that being grouped with better academic schools can help make an institution better academically and then change it to be that a school who has good academics would falter academically simply by being paired with schools of lesser standing. It shouldn't be hard to see the fault in this logic - it's up to the school to get better. When a school is paired with institutions who are of higher standing, though, generally they strive to get better. Schools who are already in the upper echelon generally continue to strive at being the best, much like Vanderbilt.
Don't agree with all the logic but I will agree to disagree on those points. I will say that plenty of alumni of schools can care less about sports as well. And I do care about the university as a whole for reasons I said above. I just don't think an athletic conference has done much to improve its standing. They are about where they have always been.
A number of people in this thread have explained my position on this quite well - thanks guys for that. My point is not that being in conference with Duke means that FSU will automatically become an academic juggernaut by associations alone. The truth is that the relationships do matter. First, being associated with highly ranked schools does provide incentives to strive for improvement on their own front from an academic standpoint. Also, don't discount the idea of being in an athletic conference with schools like Duke, UNC and UVA (among the others) doesn't also helping FSU on the academic front due to the ability to collaborate on other projects. Some of the athletic conferences, to your point, see themselves as nothing more than conduits for the athletic departments of these schools to compete against each other. Other conferences, like the B1G and the ACC, have deeper connections among the schools than just athletics. They also have associations on the academic fronts. Just ask the FSU professors and school leaders how being associated with the ACC schools helpls FSU academically. It's no accident that the FSU president came out very publicly in favor of FSU remaining in the ACC. Why do you think he did that? Hint: it was the academic connections that FSU built with the other ACC schools through the athletic conference. Notice how FSU academics took off after it joined the ACC? That was no accident.
If Vanderbilt were in the Ivy League their academics change? If Princeton were in the Big East would their academics change? I'm not slamming the BE. I'm just trying to point out the Ivy League brand carries a lot of weight in the academic world.
The principle is the same. Schools want to be in "better" athletic conferences because it improves their programs. Better competition, better recruiting, etc. By associating with a "better" academic conference (yes, the ACC is an academic conference) the schools reputation benefits. Better students, alumni interest (i.e. donations), better teachers....
this thread really ought to be split... it's gotten so far off-topic... can anyone even remember the OP?
(07-25-2012 07:51 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote: [ -> ]this thread really ought to be split... it's gotten so far off-topic... can anyone even remember the OP?
I'll scan through this while at work tonight...