Lance plays X uo, he says"they have a leg up", they go to the sweet 16 for the first time in 14 years and all of a sudden they have a leg up, UC was rankedf or the entire season...X was'nt...it's good to see X do well in the tourney...but 1 sweet 16 in 14 years does'nt indicate a leg up.
Lance will use stats to his benefit to show how X is equal to or better than UC, on his show the other day, he conveniently goes back to 1997 and says that since 97 X and UC have each been to 1 sweet 16. The only reason he chose 1997 is because the prior year UC went to the Elite 8....heck Kent State has been to 1 sweet 16 since 1997...are they better or equal to UC...according to the way Lance doea stats...I guess they are.
And as for the crosstown Shootout...X recently has had our number...but like the NCAA Selection Commitee...let's look at the schools body of work, not just 1 game.
uchoops Wrote:look at the schools body of work, not just 1 game.
Where did this term "body of work" come from? It's a frigging GAME isn't it?
Just a personal pet peeve--I've become the grouchy old man in the neighborhood
the past year or so. "Don't hit your ball into my garden you snotty kids."
I swear we kept an old guy alive for 10 years by playing baseball in the alley. His
sole activity everyday was sitting behind his basement door and waiting for us
to foul one off. He would run out there like Secretariat and yell at us about
destroying his four tomato plants. He must have had a thousand rubber balls in
his basement.
Once we quit playing ball, going on to other things like vicious street crime, he died
about six months later.
Or we could just look at this March, today! X is in and we are not. For me, that qualifies as a leg, plus the butt cheek of my ex-wife, up!
Regardless, if it is truely a leg up, X does have an interesting model.
The model is the "coaches craddle".... they have a traditon of coaches moving through their program... on to bigger and better paying jobs. So what happens.... X every 4 or 5 years has to scour the Mid-major and smaller school ranks for a young and "hungry" coach who has something to prove. The guy busts his tail at X because he wants the bigger and better paying job. Does the process get old for them... I am sure. Is there risk you may make the wrong call on a coach, sure. They are assured of having an agressive coach ever few years.
Don't read into this I want Huggs to go.... just his staff
I don't know how anyone can argue that X does not have a leg up...Right Now. It is painfully obvious. X wins the head to head matchup lately and now they are playing in the second weekend while yet again UC is at home.
I am not saying I am unhappy wiht UC's program. It is exciting to watch every year. But it is time to face facts (and they are facts now) that X has been more successful. There is nothing wrong with that.
Use my stats?
How can I use them? They are right there in front of us.
If you are going to compare UC to X.......you can't change the past. The only fair comparison is since one team got it's new coach....three years ago....and began changing the dynamics. If you want to go back further, go back eight years and they each have one sweet 16 trips. But I would prefer to gauge what's happened since one team changed coaches.
Since then
X has more wins, a higher winning percentage, more Confernece player of the year awards, the same number of NCAA trips, the same number of NBA draft picks, and twice as many NCAA's wins.
How is that my fault? Please explain, I can't wait
Bottomline is that Xavier has had more success lately. That's a fact. This isn't meant to rip Lance at all, but Lance has admitted he is as much a Xavier fan as he is a UC fan because of Thad Matta, so people are going to assume he's going after UC. But those are just facts right now. The key is winning. Start throwing around that UC tradition and the move to the Big East to upgrade talent. If UC makes a deep run in the NCAA Tournament next year, or even makes the Final Four, this is a moot point. But until then, you'll have to deal with things like this.
Lance - I listened to your show....you did'nt go back to when Matta started, you went back to 1997 when comparing sweet 16 appearances...anyone can use stats to show different things...you conveniently use stats to show UC in a negative way as compared to X...you say X has twice as many wins in the NCAA..it's 4- 2...by your comments you would think it was something much greater.. I think it's great that X is doing so well...but X making the sweet 16 is a cinderella story...UC not making it is news...cause we are suppose to..according to our seed and our national reputaion as a top 20 team year in year out...now if X continues to perform like Gonzaga than they are no longer a cinderella story...but be real...1 sweet 16 in 14 years and 2 in the entire history of the program..Since Mattta has taken over the program it appears you have gone from UC as your #1 team to X as your #1 team...you constantly slam UC...is that why Huggs is never on your show???
you must not be reading this board. How did you miss the Graduation Rate package I put together and sent to Greg Couch of the Sun Times, Dan Lebatard of the Miami Herald and others. Since the post has nearly 1600 views....how did you miss that?
Nothing bugs me more than a big mouth without the facts....that is why I put the grad rate pack together. Too bad you couldn't even find it before shooting off your mouth. Stop being mad at me because X is still alive and UC isn't.
I'm not mad...you just distort facts to make your point...which is fine...your job is to stir the pot so you get listeners and callers..I listen, I don't always agree with your point of view....I saw your piece on the grad rates..in fact you did an out tanding job and I wish more local media would do the same..and the national media would do their research.. I guess you saying X has a leg upis your way of stirring the pot..
I'll continue to listen, I won't always agree, but I will listen...
Lance McAlister Wrote:But I would prefer to gauge what's happened since one team changed coaches.
Since then X has more wins, a higher winning percentage, more Confernece player of the year awards, the same number of NCAA trips, the same number of NBA draft picks, and twice as many NCAA's wins.
I'm not here to slam X or Thad, but I would say that at least two of these are good fortune for Thad rather than a true comparison of the two current coaches and their programs. How many of those Player of the Year Awards were recruited by the current XU coaching staff? NBA draft picks?
Again, you can't argue that X didn't get farther this year because all you have to do is look at the brackets. And besides their head-to-head matchups, that's all you can fairly compare.
Honestly, I'm not sure what the need is to compare the two constantly. Look, I know since they play in the same city and are one-game-a-year rivals it's very easy to look across the city and want to say "We're better than them" but really, who cares? They play in different conferences, against different competition (so comparing records seems pointless to me...other than head-to-head since Matta arrived, which is 2-1 for Matta). They rarely recruit the same players.
And when it comes down to it, XU beat the teams they played in the tourny, UC didn't. Would X have faired as well against ETSU or Illinois? I don't know. Would UC beat Louisville, again, and Mississippi State? I have no idea. And it doesn't matter.
Xavier is Xavier and UC is UC and I don't think there will be a time when only one of the programs will be be able to play in the city limits, so I'm not sure why the other team's fans care about what the other is doing and, as a result, why the media presents comparisons to feed the demand for each program to say "See, that's why my team is better".
I'd rather concentrate on my team than worry about what the other guy is doing. Just my opinion.
Depends on how you care to outline what it is your defining.
I would argue that with the National Player of the Year and the best two-guard in school history on the floor, XU (with its second-round NCAA loss) underperformed last year to an even greater degree than did UC.
They had some losses this year (Ball State, George Washington, Duquesne twice) that would rank among the very worst of the 15 years that Huggins has been UC's coach.
This year's midseason turnaround for XU, however, has been one of the most dramatic ever by either program, and the first weekend whippings applied by XU are probably the most impressive for either side since UC's first tourney weekend in 1993.
What people are slow to realize is that the Cincinnati college basketbal landscape has
changed drastically when the UC-XU game was the be-all and end-all. Back then
we were both in crappy conferences and not on the national stage at all.
Now we are both in pretty good conferences and each have our share of important
games out of conference.
I think if you are not rooting for X other than when they play UC you are just
cheating yourself out of some great basketball.
However, I can't agree with Lance on this one. As good as XU is playing now, and let's
admit it, they are hitting everything, there is still two unexplainable losses to Duquense
and a blowout of George Washington. Our only unexplainable loss is to X.
You can always look at head to head competition, the results of NCAA tourney wins/losses, and the results of the entire year.
Head to head X has done better primarily because I believe they grasp the rivalry far more than UC does. I have no idea why, but UC hardly ever plays well in this game while X usually plays one of it's better games. That means they are more fired up to play.
As far as the NCAA, we have been there far more times than X. In the last 10 years how many times have they made it? How many final fours, elite eights?
The other comparison is season results. We have spend far more time in the top 25, so there we have the edge as well.
I am not knocking X as they have done a great job this year of bouncing back and being successful. They have also done a great job of kicking our rear end (which I absolutely hate). But, the only advantage they have over us in recent memory is head to head competition.
Lance, why compare the two at all? Why stir this crap up? Do you get off on sticking it to UC fans? As far as "defending UC" with the grad statistics you may have more luck finding osama bin laden then you will trying to change certain "sports journalists" minds about UC. By the way, who cares what these small minded fools think? I only care what the presidents of schools like Notre Dame, Uconn, Syracuse and Pitt think about UC. They must not have cared too much about what idiots like Lebiturd think. They looked at UC athletics and saw something very positive because we are headed to the big east. As long as Huggs is here UC is the bad guy. Period. End of story. However Huggins revived an entire athletic program. Huggs got us into the big east. Huggs brought the money in to build varsity village. Huggs got the UC football team into a BCS league. Thad got one lousy sweet sixteen for XU (built on the success of past coaches)and will punch his card for Purdue faster then you can say Eggsavior. Go Bearcats! Beat Ohio State!
bigbadcat Wrote:By the way, who cares what these small minded fools think?
Some recruits do :frown:
I commend Lance for taking the time to put together UC's grad rates and helping educate these hacks that are quick to attack Huggins and UC for grad rates but are too lazy to do the research to learn the REAL truth behind players graduating.
The last 8 years Head to Head- Xavier has won the match up.
That same 8 year stretch if you compare
Top 10 Rankings- No Comparison
Top 25 Rankings- No Comparison
NCAA Tournament Appearances- No Comparison
NCAA Tournament Wins- No Comparison
Conference Championships- No Comparison
Nationally Televised Games- No Comparison
Top 100 Recruits- No Comparison
If you are solely basing it off of Head to Head (1 game a year) than Xavier has had the better program than UC the last 8 years. If you are basing it off THE ENTIRE Season, there is no comparison of the 2 programs over that stretch.
The problem with the media and ALOT of fans is they are too quick too jump on the bandwagon and too quick to want to crucify a coach or a program.
You have some UC fans saying UC should part ways with Huggins, You have UK Fans questioning whether Tubby is the right coach. Give me a frickening break.
There was talk of whether Matta was a good coach back in January and now all of sudden he is John Wooden and Xavier is a better program than UC.
why is it so hard to understand the comparison should be the last 3 years????? That is when Thad took over. Why would the other 7 matter? It's a different system and way of doing things. The only equal comparison is the last 3 years.
[QUOTE] Lance McAlister Posted on Mar 25 2004, 07:26 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why is it so hard to understand the comparison should be the last 3 years????? That is when Thad took over. Why would the other 7 matter? It's a different system and way of doing things. The only equal comparison is the last 3 years.
Why is it so hard to understand that a comparison shoul be made over time - it's a marathon, not a sprint. EVERY program has down cycles, for one reason or another. When they occur, the overall success of the program is not diminished.
It appears that North Carolina is coming out of one. So, does Xavier have a leg up on North Carolina? Tell me you believe the Xones would not trade programs with the Tarheels in a NY minute. Even Duke was down a while back when Krzyzewski had back problems. Well, Huggins had a heart attack last year.
Perhaps you fail to recognize this "down cycle" at UC, because for most schools, including Xavier, these would be considered very good years.
I don't know what anyone else thinks,....
But I don't like the idea of having a radio guy on a message board. And frankly it cheapens it to me, i don't like someone using a board as a show promotion. It's just too annoying, lance frankly hearing you on the air is enough.
No matter what you say to Lance, he's right. If you want to compare the last three years, fine. I'll still take Huggs and UC. Leg up, big deal, why would you come on an UC board with stuff like that except to iritate people.
I don't know why you guys react to Lance, or post responses. He'll then talk about you on his show. He's using the message board for his show. And now that X is up he'll hop on that band wagon too. It's his job. So it's difficult to take him seriously, and frankly I don't like even seeing his stuff on here, I was glad I didn't have to see him much on CUSA-Talk, it helps to point out the best feature of this board. IGNORE. Just like changing the Dial on the radio. :)
I am glad Lance is on this board and I hope he continues to post. If you don't like his posts don't read them. Simple enough. I don't agree with him that Xavier has the leg up on UC the last 3 years but it's his opinion.
Who cares if he promotes his show? He brings a lot more information on here besides just promoting his show. Cut him some slack.