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We were talking a few weeks ago about FBS/FCS games..

Did some looking for this year....

In the 6 AQ plus ND-
10 have 0 FCS
55 have 1 FCS
4 have 2 FCS(FSU, Cincy, Pitt, and Texas A&M)

in the 5 non-AQ
13 have 0 FCS
41 have 1 FCS
1 has 4 FCS/D2(UTSA)

One thing that is very interesting and kind of to keep an eye on. Let's say FSU goes 9-3 and is in the top 10 this year. Loses say to Clemson, USF, and NC State- but then comes back and beats VT and Florida. They at 9-3 would not be eligible for an at large spot in the BCS. You have to have 9 FBS wins(able to subsitute 1 FCS win but not 2).

Just don't see the FCS games ending any time soon.
Nobody has 2 on purpose--West Virginia (and TCU) bailing caused Cincinatti and Pitt to scramble for 2, A&M's transition to the SEC messed up their scheduling, and West Virginia (again) wussed out on FSU.

The rules let you use one, just about everybody does one. And the ones that don't, mostly have a game on the schedule with a school that might as well be FCS (STanford vs SJSU)
(07-07-2012 02:21 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]We were talking a few weeks ago about FBS/FCS games..

Did some looking for this year....

In the 6 AQ plus ND-
10 have 0 FCS
55 have 1 FCS
4 have 2 FCS(FSU, Cincy, Pitt, and Texas A&M)

in the 5 non-AQ
13 have 0 FCS
41 have 1 FCS
1 has 4 FCS/D2(UTSA)

One thing that is very interesting and kind of to keep an eye on. Let's say FSU goes 9-3 and is in the top 10 this year. Loses say to Clemson, USF, and NC State- but then comes back and beats VT and Florida. They at 9-3 would not be eligible for an at large spot in the BCS. You have to have 9 FBS wins(able to subsitute 1 FCS win but not 2).

Just don't see the FCS games ending any time soon.
I think both of you are correct, but the FBS schools don't schedule them for an extra win as much as they do for an extra home game's gate and concessions. In the SEC for instance most of the home conference games are $70 a ticket (and that's for end-zone and upper deck too). Every SEC team wants 7 home games and on odd years may have 8. Four of those are conference games and the other three or four will usually include one home and home with a decent OOC FBS school, 2 home game only opponents against two smaller conference FBS schools looking for respect (Troy or Arkansas State type FBS schools) and one FCS school which of course is home only. The non-conference tickets will range from $55 a piece for FCS to $60 for a Sun Belt type school. Consider that even the fans in the end-zones have to contribute from $600 and up for the privilege to buy those end-zone season books and that some of the leading contributors to the Athletic departments are local merchants and the pressure to guarantee 7 or more home crowds a year to the surrounding area is enormous. The gate alone for that extra home game could reach near 5.3 million on a sellout and that doesn't include concessions.

The SEC is discussing 9 conference games again. The debate will be hot. Not because we don't want to play each other, we do. The crowds for conference games are phenomenal. What the athletic departments are really afraid of is that if we have 9 conference games that will mean every other year 5 of them will be road games. The pressure will be to keep at least one decent home and home out of conference FBS school on the schedule. So all of the sudden some years, depending on how thorough a job the A. Department does in scheduling, and forgoing a cancellation, some of our schools could have only 6 home games. That would be as big an economic disaster as losing your first two games. Which by the way is another reason most schools usually start with a couple of those cupcakes up front. It builds momentum and keeps the fan bases energized deeper into the season, should the season prove not to be a good one. And, of course it helps the team to get on their feet and up to speed without a loss.

While I'm sure that coaches don't like the extra risk of loss with an additional conference game the real issue, of course, is financial. Every additional home and home series takes away another annual guaranteed home game. And the hospitality industry and local merchants scream! JR
Great post, JR.
Everyone of the big boys wants 8 home games a year (or at worst, 7). Only way for so many teams to have that many home games is to reach in FCS level.
I think the days of 8 home game schedules are about to fall by the wayside. Everyone seems to be moving toward a 9 game conference schedule...
(07-11-2012 12:30 PM)bitcruncher Wrote: [ -> ]I think the days of 8 home game schedules are about to fall by the wayside. Everyone seems to be moving toward a 9 game conference schedule...

The only way that happens is if the compensation to do so exceeds what they make from those games. JR
High profile neutral site games help considerably...
(07-11-2012 01:49 PM)bitcruncher Wrote: [ -> ]High profile neutral site games help considerably...

Auburn will play Clemson in Atlanta to open the season. The tickets are $80 a piece and available only with a season ticket book at Auburn. (Or, of course, through an Atlanta travel agency upon the purchase of a hotel room for two days.) I understand that Clemson has not yet sold their allotment as of a week ago.

The Georgia Dome holds 71,228 for football events. Jordan-Hare holds 87,451 capacity with some standing room only tickets.

An Auburn home game against a UAB or Troy would be a sellout. The gate alone would be 5.25 million. Concessions would belong to Auburn. Troy would earn between $600 to 700,000 so Auburn's net would be $4.55 million plus concessions.

When Auburn plays Clemson in the Georgia Dome the estimated take on 71,228 capacity attendance would be 5.69 million (less than an Auburn non-conference home game including concessions) minus the take of the neutral site and then split between Auburn and Clemson. My guess would be that Auburn and Clemson would get about 2 million a piece and that may be generous. So you see Bit, Auburn would net 2,55 million more by playing Troy, or UAB, in Auburn than by playing Clemson in Atlanta, and they would also pocket the concessions. The television money has to make up the difference.

TV is what compensates for home gate. But, TV does not compensate the local merchants and the local hospitality industry that depend on the home game revenue and most of whom contribute to the Athletic Department via advertising dollars or outright contributions. And, I might add some these business people have deep ties to the governor of the state, and to their state representatives, and to the Board of Trustees of the school. All of the aforementioned in part, and together, determine state funding and its use at the school. It's a sticky wicket.

I would think we could have more of these match-ups, and have them more profitably, if they were scheduled home and home. I would also think the reason the SEC pursues these games in Atlanta is in reciprocation for Chik-fil-a's support of the collective programs of the ACC and SEC and their sponsorship of one of our bowl tie ins. But, the neutral site game is not the cash cow many believe it to be. Most are done because of past history, contributions to the conferences, or schools, from the host site's business community, and only partially out of convenience to both fan bases and their travel distances. While the neutral site game also benefits the athletic departments exposure in the area of the site, it is usually a net sacrifice on the part of the participants from their standard home take. That is one reason the teams that play in these games tend to rotate their obligation to do so with their conference family. JR
(07-11-2012 02:31 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]I would think we could have more of these match-ups, and have them more profitably, if they were scheduled home and home.

I'm not so sure. You just demonstrated pretty conclusively that Auburn makes the same money hosting UAB as the would hosting USC. So how do you justify the increased risk of losing a game, and maybe a playoff spot, major bowl berth, etc.?

TV is the answer, but only at contract negotiation time, or in a unique contract renegotiation time, like when the Big 12 loses valuable teams and has to ask Fox for a big favor--then TV has the leverage to get 9 conference games. When the ACC is asking ESPN for more money for Pitt and Syracuse, ESPN has the leverage to get more conference games.

The PAC went to 9 games, and remember they own their own TV rights after the first couple of dozen games. The SEC seems to be sticking at 8 games, for a while at least, but maybe that's part of the negotiations with ESPN for the details of the SEC Network.
Proud that UCF is one of the 10 outta 120 that have 0 FCS games this year.
(07-11-2012 03:09 PM)Goldenbuc Wrote: [ -> ]Proud that UCF is one of the 10 outta 120 that have 0 FCS games this year.

Absolutely! I wouldn't mind playing this kind of schedule every year!
If the discussion of SOS holding a lot of weight in the eyes of the selection committee, we may very well see FCS games get dropped for better opponents.
(07-11-2012 02:47 PM)johnbragg Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-11-2012 02:31 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]I would think we could have more of these match-ups, and have them more profitably, if they were scheduled home and home.

I'm not so sure. You just demonstrated pretty conclusively that Auburn makes the same money hosting UAB as the would hosting USC. So how do you justify the increased risk of losing a game, and maybe a playoff spot, major bowl berth, etc.?

TV is the answer, but only at contract negotiation time, or in a unique contract renegotiation time, like when the Big 12 loses valuable teams and has to ask Fox for a big favor--then TV has the leverage to get 9 conference games. When the ACC is asking ESPN for more money for Pitt and Syracuse, ESPN has the leverage to get more conference games.

The PAC went to 9 games, and remember they own their own TV rights after the first couple of dozen games. The SEC seems to be sticking at 8 games, for a while at least, but maybe that's part of the negotiations with ESPN for the details of the SEC Network.

Yes, but remember that current SEC schedules usually include one decent FBS out of conference opponent in a home and home series. Auburn just concluded such an arrangement with Clemson prior to the neutral site game in Atlanta. I am sure both Auburn and Clemson made a lot more with their home game in that series than either will make in Atlanta. I might add that since Auburn charges $55 for a home ticket against an FCS opponent the same would have been true had we played East Tennessee State (provided we sold it out, which if it were the opening game of the season we might well have done).

My comment about a home and home being more likely than a neutral site game doesn't replace FBS teams from a smaller conference like the Sun Belt, or the usual FCS game, but rather this year the neutral site game for Auburn replaces the home and home FBS slot on the schedule. So all we are losing is the home concessions and half of a reduced gate. But, that's still a loss for the local business people no matter how you look at it. If it had been the home side of a new series instead of a second straight year of playing Clemson away from Auburn they would have earned much more.

If the game was replacing one of the home only FBS games against a Sun Belt, or WAC team (like last year's Utah State game) then it would be the loss of a home game and an even greater reduction in revenue.

The only point you made that I would disagree with is that a home conference game (you said South Carolina) would earn the same as a game against UAB. The UAB tickets would be $60 and a sellout, the South Carolina tickets would be $70 and a sellout. For the single game Auburn makes more playing a conference foe. The point I think you were trying to make (forgive me if I assumed incorrectly, or misread your point) was that a game against UAB two years running (at home both years) would earn Auburn more than an extra conference game in which we would only be at home 1 out of the two years. And, that would be correct.

Your points about games already included in television contracts is an important one to make as well. Realignment driven by market expansion is about to conclude, at least for the SEC. The SEC really only has two large markets left to pursue, North Carolina and Virginia. After that if there is any further realignment it will have to be over content and include teams within the existing footprint that can add in that regard.

Depending upon how realignment plays out beyond potential additions in Virginia and North Carolina the SEC could pick up another new state but it would almost certainly be from a state with a very small television market so content would still have to be the prime motivator in that regard.

That is the reason I do not think many of the "rules" about realignment that I have seen posted really apply. Is a team that can bring you $1 dollar for every cable subscription in a large market, and add 1 or 2 million to the earnings of every school in a conference by doing so, any more valuable than a national brand that will create 8 great prime time match-ups against teams already in your conference, thereby adding to your content a value equal to or greater than that of a new market, somehow magically less valuable just because they are already within your footprint? Of course not.

As long as the economy is soggy schools will be looking at all angles to either increase revenue, or cut costs. This is all that is really driving realignment. This first round was over market share increases for cable networks. The next round will conclude that and begin content additions. Future rounds will be over cost consolidation. Do we really need to duplicate conference expenses by 2 or 3 times what they should be. To me going to 4 conferences will in the end be more about eliminating redundant expense and increasing bargaining power than about playoffs and egos. The smaller programs in the FBS will be doing exactly the same things. Coaches, fans, and teams think it is about playoffs. Administrators and college presidents know it's about revenue.

As long as there are large programs they will need the smaller programs to have those extra home games, because it is more about money than championships. There is one champion every year now. But there are 126 other programs trying to stay in the black. JR
(07-11-2012 03:14 PM)200yrs2late Wrote: [ -> ]If the discussion of SOS holding a lot of weight in the eyes of the selection committee, we may very well see FCS games get dropped for better opponents.

I think what you will see is more of what the Big 10 and PAC have initially discussed doing. A home and home series against other large conference FBS teams. If there is a universal command for 9 conference games and you have a tenth game against a foe from another large conference and only two smaller FBS home games (or one FBS home only game and one FCS home only game), then too many schools will have 1 less home game a year to ever agree to go for it.

The push to 16 team conferences broken down into 4 rotating pods (half divisions) was to accommodate this kind of shift. Inside the conference you would play every team in your pod (3 games) every team in the pod you are playing to make up your division for that year (4 games), and perhaps 1 permanent rival (1 game more) for a total of 8 conference games. Because the pods rotate annually you will play the other 15 teams every three years. You would play your challenge game home and home. That's 9 games so far. Then, you would still have three games remaining to schedule small conference FBS or FCS games so that your schedule would rotate between 7 and 8 home games every other year.

The networks get their extra content and the home towns give up in essence 1/2 of a home game a year, which is partially made up by increased revenue from the larger traveling crowd of another large out of conference team coming to your community. It's not a total win for the merchants but it is better than losing that extra home game every year. JR
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