OK. The BiG and SEC expand and increase their revenue streams while 200 kids in Las Cruces and Moscow lose the chance to compete. In all this madness I have to ask should college sports be run like a business?
I say no. That is the purpose of Pro sports. The point of college sports should be to provide for as many kids as possible the valuable lessons around competition, hard work and teamwork that come with college sports. I think Congress should step in and provide an ant-trust exemption for the NCAA to impose an expense cap and revenue sharing on revenue sports. Those that don't like it are free to become a for profit entity complete with taxes and rules for how you treat employees.
It is time for college sports to go back to what it was meant to be.
What makes Idaho better than Idaho State and Eastern Washington? The Big Sky is ideal for Idaho in terms of travel, history, budget, and enrollment.
I don't see it as such a travesty that Idaho would be forced back there.
(05-01-2012 07:05 AM)Sactowndog Wrote: [ -> ]OK. The BiG and SEC expand and increase their revenue streams while 200 kids in Las Cruces and Moscow lose the chance to compete. In all this madness I have to ask should college sports be run like a business?
I say no. That is the purpose of Pro sports. The point of college sports should be to provide for as many kids as possible the valuable lessons around competition, hard work and teamwork that come with college sports. I think Congress should step in and provide an ant-trust exemption for the NCAA to impose an expense cap and revenue sharing on revenue sports. Those that don't like it are free to become a for profit entity complete with taxes and rules for how you treat employees.
It is time for college sports to go back to what it was meant to be.
That is unrealistic. It isn't as if intercollegiate athletics just suddenly became big business in the last 5 years or even in the last 50 years, although the business was certainly smaller back then.
Now, I too would have preferred true amateur athletics at the D-I level but that train has left the station. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. If you really and truly are fed up with the lack of amateurism, and not just being a hypocrite because your school/team was left out of the really big money loop, why don't you support a D-III school? At that level you can still find amateurs and non-profit athletics. The gators of Allegheny College are always looking for some new fans.
Besides there is no law that says you have to be a college sports fan or even a sports fan at all for that matter. Take up a new hobby such as painting, photography, collecting movies, etc... Maybe you can take piano lessons or try to learn a new language. There's nothing wrong with expanding your mind and your horizons in a new direction. If you are as fed up with sports as you claim to be then declare your divorce from it and go in another direction. That would be my advice for anyone who doesn't like the way things are heading because things are definitely not going back to the way they used to be, not anytime soon, and will probably get much worse.
Where have you been? College sports is a business, and a very big one at that. TV contracts, uniform contracts, logo and naming rights for T-shirts, pennants and other various items generate billions of dollars.
Exactly. Regardless of the true mission of universities, they, like every other entity, public, private or non-profit, have to bring in bucks to stay in business. Big-time sports bring in big-time bucks. It's been that way for a long time. It is NOT illegal, so there is no alternative to the angst anyone carries about this.
Just because something is operating in a certain manner doesn't mean that is how it should be. And yes it has been going on for some time but it really started when the football schools broke away from the NCAA. And it is a fair question to ask. In all this change, what is the purpose of college sports. Certainly the purpose as advertised by the NCAA and the reality are very different.
So is college sports what it advertises as a means to prepare kids for life or is it a big business. Right now it is trying to be both and I would argue faces some real issues.
(05-01-2012 07:53 AM)Sactowndog Wrote: [ -> ]Just because something is operating in a certain manner doesn't mean that is how it should be. And yes it has been going on for some time but it really started when the football schools broke away from the NCAA. And it is a fair question to ask. In all this change, what is the purpose of college sports. Certainly the purpose as advertised by the NCAA and the reality are very different.
So is college sports what it advertises as a means to prepare kids for life or is it a big business. Right now it is trying to be both and I would argue faces some real issues.
Having "big money athletics" is not some sort of unalienable right that everyone is entitled to. I personally don't like it but then if people only did things I liked then everyone would be vegan and hunting would be outlawed.
Like I said, if a school truly wants amateur athletics there is D-III or if they want to continue awarding athletics scholarships but without the pressure of the financial arms race there is always D-II or even the NAIA. The same for fans. You can always become a fan of schools in D-II, D-III, or the NAIA or you can simply not be a sports fan at all. You'd be surprised at the number of constructive activities and hobbies that there can be out there if you step away from sports and find something else to become passionate about.
(05-01-2012 07:33 AM)crixus Wrote: [ -> ]Where have you been? College sports is a business, and a very big one at that. TV contracts, uniform contracts, logo and naming rights for T-shirts, pennants and other various items generate billions of dollars.
Exactly. Like this is something new! And then you'll see people rail against it while continuing to support it. It's hilarious.
(05-01-2012 07:26 AM)Soggy Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2012 07:05 AM)Sactowndog Wrote: [ -> ]OK. The BiG and SEC expand and increase their revenue streams while 200 kids in Las Cruces and Moscow lose the chance to compete. In all this madness I have to ask should college sports be run like a business?
I say no. That is the purpose of Pro sports. The point of college sports should be to provide for as many kids as possible the valuable lessons around competition, hard work and teamwork that come with college sports. I think Congress should step in and provide an ant-trust exemption for the NCAA to impose an expense cap and revenue sharing on revenue sports. Those that don't like it are free to become a for profit entity complete with taxes and rules for how you treat employees.
It is time for college sports to go back to what it was meant to be.
That is unrealistic. It isn't as if intercollegiate athletics just suddenly became big business in the last 5 years or even in the last 50 years, although the business was certainly smaller back then.
Now, I too would have preferred true amateur athletics at the D-I level but that train has left the station. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. If you really and truly are fed up with the lack of amateurism, and not just being a hypocrite because your school/team was left out of the really big money loop, why don't you support a D-III school?
As a matter of fact I do. I graduated from a d3 school. But nothing is ever fixed in stone and I dont think I am the only one asking these questions. The ongoing scandals do nothing to help the image of college sports. Nor do kids graduating who never learned a damn thing in class.
You may think college sports is what it should be but it is a fair question to ask and not above reform. All it would take is an anti-trust exemption, an expense cap, and revenue sharing and college sports would be a very different world.
It should be either that or make it a real business and provide the employees with rights they have in all other businesses.
(05-01-2012 08:09 AM)Sactowndog Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2012 07:26 AM)Soggy Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2012 07:05 AM)Sactowndog Wrote: [ -> ]OK. The BiG and SEC expand and increase their revenue streams while 200 kids in Las Cruces and Moscow lose the chance to compete. In all this madness I have to ask should college sports be run like a business?
I say no. That is the purpose of Pro sports. The point of college sports should be to provide for as many kids as possible the valuable lessons around competition, hard work and teamwork that come with college sports. I think Congress should step in and provide an ant-trust exemption for the NCAA to impose an expense cap and revenue sharing on revenue sports. Those that don't like it are free to become a for profit entity complete with taxes and rules for how you treat employees.
It is time for college sports to go back to what it was meant to be.
That is unrealistic. It isn't as if intercollegiate athletics just suddenly became big business in the last 5 years or even in the last 50 years, although the business was certainly smaller back then.
Now, I too would have preferred true amateur athletics at the D-I level but that train has left the station. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. If you really and truly are fed up with the lack of amateurism, and not just being a hypocrite because your school/team was left out of the really big money loop, why don't you support a D-III school?
As a matter of fact I do. I graduated from a d3 school. But nothing is ever fixed in stone and I dont think I am the only one asking these questions. The ongoing scandals do nothing to help the image of college sports. Nor do kids graduating who never learned a damn thing in class.
You may think college sports is what it should be but it is a fair question to ask and not above reform. All it would take is an anti-trust exemption, an expense cap, and revenue sharing and college sports would be a very different world.
It should be either that or make it a real business and provide the employees with rights they have in all other businesses.
Well, then you know better than most that there is no shame in D-III athletics, if that or something like that, is where the Idaho's of the world eventually end up in. Sure it isn't glamorous but you yourself said that it shouldn't be about glamour and ego-stroking but about education. That is why we have different levels. If you want amateurism then you are free to pick a D-III school and if you want your ego stroked then you pick someone like Virginia Tech, Florida State, Michigan, USC, etc... It's about free choice.
Anyway, even if I was to voice support for your crusade against the evils and corruption of big money athletics we'd both be spitting against the wind because most of the fans of the Oklahoma's and the UCLA's aren't going to sit idly by and let a few politicians downsize and socialize the system. The reason they become fans of someone like Penn State as opposed to Allegheny College is because they like the ego stroking that comes with such a thing. I have a hard time believing the boosters of the big time athletics factories are going to just let Penn State be forced into the same conference with Lehigh or Lafayette.
(05-01-2012 08:22 AM)Soggy Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2012 08:09 AM)Sactowndog Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2012 07:26 AM)Soggy Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2012 07:05 AM)Sactowndog Wrote: [ -> ]OK. The BiG and SEC expand and increase their revenue streams while 200 kids in Las Cruces and Moscow lose the chance to compete. In all this madness I have to ask should college sports be run like a business?
I say no. That is the purpose of Pro sports. The point of college sports should be to provide for as many kids as possible the valuable lessons around competition, hard work and teamwork that come with college sports. I think Congress should step in and provide an ant-trust exemption for the NCAA to impose an expense cap and revenue sharing on revenue sports. Those that don't like it are free to become a for profit entity complete with taxes and rules for how you treat employees.
It is time for college sports to go back to what it was meant to be.
That is unrealistic. It isn't as if intercollegiate athletics just suddenly became big business in the last 5 years or even in the last 50 years, although the business was certainly smaller back then.
Now, I too would have preferred true amateur athletics at the D-I level but that train has left the station. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. If you really and truly are fed up with the lack of amateurism, and not just being a hypocrite because your school/team was left out of the really big money loop, why don't you support a D-III school?
As a matter of fact I do. I graduated from a d3 school. But nothing is ever fixed in stone and I dont think I am the only one asking these questions. The ongoing scandals do nothing to help the image of college sports. Nor do kids graduating who never learned a damn thing in class.
You may think college sports is what it should be but it is a fair question to ask and not above reform. All it would take is an anti-trust exemption, an expense cap, and revenue sharing and college sports would be a very different world.
It should be either that or make it a real business and provide the employees with rights they have in all other businesses.
Well, then you know better than most that there is no shame in D-III athletics, if that or something like that, is where the Idaho's of the world eventually end up in. Sure it isn't glamorous but you yourself said that it shouldn't be about glamour and ego-stroking but about education. That is why we have different levels. If you want amateurism then you are free to pick a D-III school and if you want your ego stroked then you pick someone like Virginia Tech, Florida State, Michigan, USC, etc... It's about free choice.
Anyway, even if I was to voice support for your crusade against the evils and corruption of big money athletics we'd both be spitting against the wind because most of the fans of the Oklahoma's and the UCLA's aren't going to sit idly by and let a few politicians downsize and socialize the system. The reason they become fans of someone like Penn State as opposed to Allegheny College is because they like the ego stroking that comes with such a thing. I have a hard time believing the boosters of the big time athletics factories are going to just let Penn State be forced into the same conference with Lehigh or Lafayette.
Soggy, why shouldn't Penn State be forced to associate with Lehigh? They made a thorough botch up of their time in the B1G. The Jerry Sandusky affair runs back to the 1990s, and it appears that almost everyone knew what was going on and did nothing about it...
The law that was broken at Penn State was enacted because of the murder of a student at Lehigh. IMO that's a perfect association for Penn State these days...
(05-01-2012 08:08 AM)Hokie4Skins Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2012 07:33 AM)crixus Wrote: [ -> ]Where have you been? College sports is a business, and a very big one at that. TV contracts, uniform contracts, logo and naming rights for T-shirts, pennants and other various items generate billions of dollars.
Exactly. Like this is something new! And then you'll see people rail against it while continuing to support it. It's hilarious.
Right. Normally when you see someone on a sports message board saying that the government needs to come in and regulate and legislate it is code for "Dammit! Those greedy bastards won't let my equally greedy school into their filthy rich and prestigious conference. Those clowns at work keep making fun of me because my school is still in the WAC or the Atlantic Sun. I wanted to be the one making fun of them. How i wish the government would come in and torch them for not letting good old (fill in the blank)State into the conference it deserves". So in other words its hypocrisy.
(05-01-2012 08:42 AM)bitcruncher Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2012 08:22 AM)Soggy Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2012 08:09 AM)Sactowndog Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2012 07:26 AM)Soggy Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2012 07:05 AM)Sactowndog Wrote: [ -> ]OK. The BiG and SEC expand and increase their revenue streams while 200 kids in Las Cruces and Moscow lose the chance to compete. In all this madness I have to ask should college sports be run like a business?
I say no. That is the purpose of Pro sports. The point of college sports should be to provide for as many kids as possible the valuable lessons around competition, hard work and teamwork that come with college sports. I think Congress should step in and provide an ant-trust exemption for the NCAA to impose an expense cap and revenue sharing on revenue sports. Those that don't like it are free to become a for profit entity complete with taxes and rules for how you treat employees.
It is time for college sports to go back to what it was meant to be.
That is unrealistic. It isn't as if intercollegiate athletics just suddenly became big business in the last 5 years or even in the last 50 years, although the business was certainly smaller back then.
Now, I too would have preferred true amateur athletics at the D-I level but that train has left the station. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. If you really and truly are fed up with the lack of amateurism, and not just being a hypocrite because your school/team was left out of the really big money loop, why don't you support a D-III school?
As a matter of fact I do. I graduated from a d3 school. But nothing is ever fixed in stone and I dont think I am the only one asking these questions. The ongoing scandals do nothing to help the image of college sports. Nor do kids graduating who never learned a damn thing in class.
You may think college sports is what it should be but it is a fair question to ask and not above reform. All it would take is an anti-trust exemption, an expense cap, and revenue sharing and college sports would be a very different world.
It should be either that or make it a real business and provide the employees with rights they have in all other businesses.
Well, then you know better than most that there is no shame in D-III athletics, if that or something like that, is where the Idaho's of the world eventually end up in. Sure it isn't glamorous but you yourself said that it shouldn't be about glamour and ego-stroking but about education. That is why we have different levels. If you want amateurism then you are free to pick a D-III school and if you want your ego stroked then you pick someone like Virginia Tech, Florida State, Michigan, USC, etc... It's about free choice.
Anyway, even if I was to voice support for your crusade against the evils and corruption of big money athletics we'd both be spitting against the wind because most of the fans of the Oklahoma's and the UCLA's aren't going to sit idly by and let a few politicians downsize and socialize the system. The reason they become fans of someone like Penn State as opposed to Allegheny College is because they like the ego stroking that comes with such a thing. I have a hard time believing the boosters of the big time athletics factories are going to just let Penn State be forced into the same conference with Lehigh or Lafayette.
Soggy, why shouldn't Penn State be forced to associate with Lehigh? They made a thorough botch up of their time in the B1G. The Jerry Sandusky affair runs back to the 1990s, and it appears that almost everyone knew what was going on and did nothing about it...
The law that was broken at Penn State was enacted because of the murder of a student at Lehigh. IMO that's a perfect association for Penn State these days...
I knew someone was going to bring that up. I'm not a Penn State fan. I picked them as an example because they are a big time athletics factory and they came to mind plus as I said they have too many people and powerful interests backing them to ever be forced into a conference with the likes of Lehigh and Lafayette. If you'd rather use Oklahoma State, Alabama, or even West Virginia as an example that's fine. The point is that boostering, supporting, or cheering for those schools regardless of whether you attended them or graduated from them is mainly an exercise in ego-stroking. To vicariously live through the exploits of the Mountaineers or the Crimson Tide makes you feel better and allows you pretend that you are somehow superior to someone who cheers for North Dakota State, Stetson, or Carnegie-Mellon.
Personally, I think it's silly to attach your identity to a bunch of jocks but that's just me. If people want to do it that is their business and their right. This is America and it's a free country. That is why unlike the person who started this thread I am not in favor of government intervention to socialize and/or downsize the system and even if I was I'd be sensible enough to realize it would likely not work because neither the masses nor the special interests propping up big money college athletics would allow it to happen. They have the money and the numbers on their side so I've already conceded to them and believe that arguments such as the ones the OP made are possibly well-intentioned, if they aren't hypocritical, but ultimately pointless. As I told him, if it really bothers you that much then either change your allegiance to another school or drop sports from your life altogether because the system sure isn't going to change.
Soggy x a million!
I'll be the first to admit that $$$ has ruined collegiate athletics (the death of the SWC being the one that most profoundly affected me) but it is NOT what is ultimately responsible for the situation.
Ego is.
Think about it, how did all this start? It started with Ego. Alumni of two schools that competed with each other for prestige and funding and students using student athletes as a proxy for their disagreement. They both wanted to win so badly that they started bringing in ringers to play for them, kids who could play ball but would otherwise almost never be accepted to the school under its admission requirements. And since universities can admit who they want, there is no way to stop this. It was formalized with the advent of the "athletic scholarship" which was and is the base of the commercialism of college sports.
That root simply cannot be destroyed as long as people's egos are tied to the success of their school against that other school.
(05-01-2012 07:33 AM)crixus Wrote: [ -> ]Where have you been? College sports is a business, and a very big one at that. TV contracts, uniform contracts, logo and naming rights for T-shirts, pennants and other various items generate billions of dollars.
I will take college monopoly for a thousand...
(This college sport is know to be played on the grid iron but is more know at producing millions of dollars and fake national champions.)
What is college football Alex?
Correct Bob.
(05-01-2012 08:49 AM)Soggy Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2012 08:08 AM)Hokie4Skins Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2012 07:33 AM)crixus Wrote: [ -> ]Where have you been? College sports is a business, and a very big one at that. TV contracts, uniform contracts, logo and naming rights for T-shirts, pennants and other various items generate billions of dollars.
Exactly. Like this is something new! And then you'll see people rail against it while continuing to support it. It's hilarious.
Right. Normally when you see someone on a sports message board saying that the government needs to come in and regulate and legislate it is code for "Dammit! Those greedy bastards won't let my equally greedy school into their filthy rich and prestigious conference. Those clowns at work keep making fun of me because my school is still in the WAC or the Atlantic Sun. I wanted to be the one making fun of them. How i wish the government would come in and torch them for not letting good old (fill in the blank)State into the conference it deserves". So in other words its hypocrisy.
There is lots of hypocrisy when people ***** on message boards about the position of other schools regarding TV contracts and such things.
That is nothing new.
Nothing personal, Terry. But a Notre Dame fan is the last person on the face of the Earth that should be talking about hypocrisy...
None taken, Bit. :)
But you know that I am right. Envy about the position of other schools or conferences is the order of the day.
I think this whole debate is very naive. Asking if college athletics should be run like a business is like asking if guns should be able to kill people? You missed the boat on that one about 100 years ago, bro. All that has changed is people's awareness to the issue has improved.
Why do you think that schools like Army, Navy, Fordham and the Ivies no longer rule the sport? What's happening now is neither new or unique.
Terry, you and I both knew you were right. But we both knew that all along. I was merely making an observation based on available facts...
I agree, Doc. The entire argument is stupid. But how many stupid arguments have we taken part of on this board? I've lost count...