04-06-2012, 12:34 PM
04-06-2012, 12:39 PM
wow that's certainly interesting. Hope these allegations are false. Unsure of the ramifications on this.
04-07-2012, 10:29 AM
I have a 19 year old daughter. I take sexual assault very seriously. I am not here to say that ND does not have football players that can and occasionally do commit crimes.
I also think that Lizzy Seeberg had a history of psychological troubles. We will never know what really happened in that dorm room. We were unlikely to know even if she had not unfortunately taken her own life.
But, this a lot of this article is old news from the fall of 2010.
This is a regurgitated account of things that occurred then and were reported in great detail.
The 1974 incident? Really? They went that far back? That was the one involving Ross Browner and Luther Bradley.
The story doesn't mention that they were suspended for a year, though never prosecuted or convicted.
The article barely mentions that the 2002 incident resulted in an internal disciplinary proceeding where the accused players were expelled from school, even though only one of them was charged criminally. One of those players was Abe Elam, who was able to immediately enroll at Florida and is now playing in the NFL.
How many schools expel their players "before the criminal process plays itself out." Not many. One old criticism of the ND internal code of conduct "Du Lac" is that ND was too quick to act internally and administratively without crimes even being charged.
WVU fans should remember running back Cooper Rego. He was expelled from Notre Dame in a disciplinary hearing for allegations of sexual assault. He was not charged or convicted in criminal court but that did not matter to ND. He was kicked out of school but was able to immediately transfer to WVU and play football for the Mountaineers.
One thing though. ND had banned him from campus for life and would not let him step foot there when WVU played at ND in 2001.
http://www.nd.edu/~observer/10112001/News/0.html
In the 2002 incident, Abe Elam was a starter in the secondary, They also expelled Donald Dykes and Lorenzo Crawford, also defensive backs, so there went most of their secondary that year.
Back in the 1974 incident, Ross Browner and Luther Bradley were the two top recruits that ND had the prior year. Very, very high profile guys.
They later became the stars of the 1977 national championship team. ND suspended them both for a year with no assurance that either would come back.
So, you can see that ND just doesn't discipline marginal players accused of sexual misconduct.
I think that this article is one sided and paints an untrue picture of how the university responds to these types of incidents.
Now, some of that honestly occurred because ND officials cannot comment in public due to legal and privacy concerns. But, I think that this article has been re-published and is "newsworthy" mainly because it is Notre Dame.
Lizzy Seeberg alleged that a football player touched her breast, not raped her.
She had to leave the University of Dayton a year before the incident because of psychological problems.
She committed suicide shortly after the alleged incident.
The campus police and the District Attorney found many discrepancies in her account.
The story of the Seeberg family and how they felt about ND's response to her claim, the alleged repercussions and slow investigation/ alleged "cover up" was big news and all over the Chicago Tribune, ESPN etc..in 2010. Nothing ever came of that. Neither did the Department of Education investigation into the handling of sexual assault cases at ND.
This is just an attempt to dredge that up again. Sexual assault is a serious problem in America and all over the world, not just at Notre Dame or on university campuses.
I also think that Lizzy Seeberg had a history of psychological troubles. We will never know what really happened in that dorm room. We were unlikely to know even if she had not unfortunately taken her own life.
But, this a lot of this article is old news from the fall of 2010.
This is a regurgitated account of things that occurred then and were reported in great detail.
The 1974 incident? Really? They went that far back? That was the one involving Ross Browner and Luther Bradley.
The story doesn't mention that they were suspended for a year, though never prosecuted or convicted.
The article barely mentions that the 2002 incident resulted in an internal disciplinary proceeding where the accused players were expelled from school, even though only one of them was charged criminally. One of those players was Abe Elam, who was able to immediately enroll at Florida and is now playing in the NFL.
How many schools expel their players "before the criminal process plays itself out." Not many. One old criticism of the ND internal code of conduct "Du Lac" is that ND was too quick to act internally and administratively without crimes even being charged.
WVU fans should remember running back Cooper Rego. He was expelled from Notre Dame in a disciplinary hearing for allegations of sexual assault. He was not charged or convicted in criminal court but that did not matter to ND. He was kicked out of school but was able to immediately transfer to WVU and play football for the Mountaineers.
One thing though. ND had banned him from campus for life and would not let him step foot there when WVU played at ND in 2001.
http://www.nd.edu/~observer/10112001/News/0.html
In the 2002 incident, Abe Elam was a starter in the secondary, They also expelled Donald Dykes and Lorenzo Crawford, also defensive backs, so there went most of their secondary that year.
Back in the 1974 incident, Ross Browner and Luther Bradley were the two top recruits that ND had the prior year. Very, very high profile guys.
They later became the stars of the 1977 national championship team. ND suspended them both for a year with no assurance that either would come back.
So, you can see that ND just doesn't discipline marginal players accused of sexual misconduct.
I think that this article is one sided and paints an untrue picture of how the university responds to these types of incidents.
Now, some of that honestly occurred because ND officials cannot comment in public due to legal and privacy concerns. But, I think that this article has been re-published and is "newsworthy" mainly because it is Notre Dame.
Lizzy Seeberg alleged that a football player touched her breast, not raped her.
She had to leave the University of Dayton a year before the incident because of psychological problems.
She committed suicide shortly after the alleged incident.
The campus police and the District Attorney found many discrepancies in her account.
The story of the Seeberg family and how they felt about ND's response to her claim, the alleged repercussions and slow investigation/ alleged "cover up" was big news and all over the Chicago Tribune, ESPN etc..in 2010. Nothing ever came of that. Neither did the Department of Education investigation into the handling of sexual assault cases at ND.
This is just an attempt to dredge that up again. Sexual assault is a serious problem in America and all over the world, not just at Notre Dame or on university campuses.
04-09-2012, 03:46 AM
I think you can find these types of incidents in any town, substitute the school, where the big school, big team, and cash cow is the pride of town... it's not limited to college football or sports either... it's very unfortunate!
That said, playing devil's advocate, because I know nothing about these cases, but we also have to realize plenty of women throw themselves at athletes too. There is that segment of today's society, and as Bill Maher said in his stand up show in Raleigh last year, there are just a bunch of ho's in this country too! Plenty of women like sex as much as men (or more), like big scores, and plenty of gals aren't always innocent, forced, or drunk participants going into it anymore!
That said, playing devil's advocate, because I know nothing about these cases, but we also have to realize plenty of women throw themselves at athletes too. There is that segment of today's society, and as Bill Maher said in his stand up show in Raleigh last year, there are just a bunch of ho's in this country too! Plenty of women like sex as much as men (or more), like big scores, and plenty of gals aren't always innocent, forced, or drunk participants going into it anymore!