Navy is expected to announce today membership in the Big East(football only) for 2015.
I have to say this is somewhat a head scratcher. Navy certainly brings eyeballs to the screen but athletically, they are a mid pack MAC team.
Bad move competitively it seems to me. I know Big East football isn't exactly the most stellar anymore but...
Big East teams will get used to their triple option offense over time. No more element of surprise for Navy.
Annapolis, what a great place. Makes sense for Navy and the BE. Could you have a better fan base than the Middies?
(01-24-2012 11:07 AM)Rocketdamus Wrote: [ -> ]Navy is expected to announce today membership in the Big East(football only) for 2015.
I have to say this is somewhat a head scratcher. Navy certainly brings eyeballs to the screen but athletically, they are a mid pack MAC team.
Bad move competitively it seems to me. I know Big East football isn't exactly the most stellar anymore but...
Every conference needs their Indiana...
This may get Air Force to bite, that brings them to what, 11, after all the current members leaving take off.
The big question is this: would the inclusion of Navy and Air Force swing Army? would the big east want the Black Knights?
You can't be much more of a national audience than Navy, Army, and Air Force.
(01-24-2012 11:07 AM)Rocketdamus Wrote: [ -> ]Navy is expected to announce today membership in the Big East(football only) for 2015.
I have to say this is somewhat a head scratcher. Navy certainly brings eyeballs to the screen but athletically, they are a mid pack MAC team.
They've had some good years lately. Couple of wins over ND, 10+ win season(s). They've thumped some MAC teams along the way too.
All that is to say that option football still works (and is fun to watch).
(01-24-2012 11:35 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote: [ -> ]This may get Air Force to bite, that brings them to what, 11, after all the current members leaving take off.
The big question is this: would the inclusion of Navy and Air Force swing Army? would the big east want the Black Knights?
You can't be much more of a national audience than Navy, Army, and Air Force.
All of the academies have a standing invite. The question is more what year everyone is coming.
BE expansion timeline:
2013: SMU, UH, SDSU, Boise, UCF (for 12 with Pitt/Syracuse)
2014: Air Force, Army (for 12 w/o Pitt/Syracuse)
2015: Navy, BYU (for 14 total)
To maintain continuity of the conference championship game the Big East might be forced to go to 14.
Will other things come into play here such as Louisville and Rutgers heading to the Big XII by 2015? That is something nobody knows for sure.
Temple has a shot at the Big East by 2015
(01-24-2012 11:35 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote: [ -> ]This may get Air Force to bite, that brings them to what, 11, after all the current members leaving take off.
The big question is this: would the inclusion of Navy and Air Force swing Army? would the big east want the Black Knights?
You can't be much more of a national audience than Navy, Army, and Air Force.
Army vs Navy would be a GREAT Thanksgiving Day game.
Then the BE conference championship would be the week after that.
Navy to the Big East hurts the MAC, Army to the Big East would hurt more. Why? Because these are two teams that many MAC schools have been able to play home and home. They are good draws, and they are name schools that we often beat. With a full conference schedule and other traditional rivals it would make future scheduling of the academies unlikely.
(01-24-2012 08:05 PM)DICK Wrote: [ -> ]Navy to the Big East hurts the MAC, Army to the Big East would hurt more. Why? Because these are two teams that many MAC schools have been able to play home and home. They are good draws, and they are name schools that we often beat. With a full conference schedule and other traditional rivals it would make future scheduling of the academies unlikely.
Actually the expansion of the power conferences helps the MAC with scheduling.
About half of the schools in AQ conferences now draw under 60k at moderate ticket prices an cannot afford to buy FBS schools at 1.5 million a pop like the Ohio State's and Michigan's.
A lot of schools will need to consider a home-home with a MAC school for cost saving measures. It would make sense for example to have Duke to go home-home with Kent State thinking they could get 2 wins out of the deal rather than being trounced twice by Louisville.
More BCS schools = More demand for buy games
More demand for buy games = Higher rates for bought schools
Higher rates for bought schools = Too expensive for mid tier BCS
Too expensive for mid tier BCS = Mid Tier BCS forced into 1 for 1 w/ non-AQ's
The PAC-12 and B1G are playing each other in non-conference play. That will drive down the price on buy games with less inventory. The model for the MAC in the future is going to be a payday on the road with the Big Ten and a 1 for 1 with an ACC or Big East type program which will play the MAC in some cases over a WAC or SBC school because of geography.
I think MAC could make a play for ECU, Marshall, Southern Miss, Tulane, Memphis and UAB for all sports and get UMass and Temple hoops. MAC would then have the midwest, northeast and deep south to offer ESPN/FSN/NBCS. This would perhaps put the MAC better than the new Big East and the MWC/CUSA. With 20 teams MAC could perhaps have the power to get a great deal and autobid for its title game. Less travel and bigger audience in eastern half of USA would be the attraction. Does Memphis really want to be in a league with Wyoming, New Mexico and Nevada? The MAC with its covering from Illinois, Michigan, Indiana, PA, NY and Mass bring in TV sets. MAC its more attractive than the MWC without Air Force, Boise State and BYU. MAC could really make a play for these overlooked programs.
(01-25-2012 01:30 AM)OhioBobcatJohn Wrote: [ -> ]I think MAC could make a play for ECU, Marshall, Southern Miss, Tulane, Memphis and UAB for all sports and get UMass and Temple hoops. MAC would then have the midwest, northeast and deep south to offer ESPN/FSN/NBCS. This would perhaps put the MAC better than the new Big East and the MWC/CUSA. With 20 teams MAC could perhaps have the power to get a great deal and autobid for its title game. Less travel and bigger audience in eastern half of USA would be the attraction. Does Memphis really want to be in a league with Wyoming, New Mexico and Nevada? The MAC with its covering from Illinois, Michigan, Indiana, PA, NY and Mass bring in TV sets. MAC its more attractive than the MWC without Air Force, Boise State and BYU. MAC could really make a play for these overlooked programs.
The alliance has 5 timezones to work with and that is the basis for any TV deal they strike.
They like the idea of having double headers on CBS College Sports involving a schools from the Pacific/Mountain in one and Central/Eastern in the other. Its functioning like two separate conferences merged for the championship games. Conference Zigzag.
What if the WAC-MAC-SBC tried to something similar?
Introducing the Big Zigzag Conference:
West: SJSU, Idaho, Utah St, NMSU, UTSA, UNT, Tx State
East: La Tech, Ark St, MTSU, WKU, Ohio, Toledo, Northern Ill.
This is pretty much the same level of competition as the proposed merger but even better since its only 14 schools involved. Every school except Toledo, San Jose and UT-San Antonio is going by a "state" name. Sign a deal with NBC Sports for 2 million per school a year.
The 14 schools makes it better and it has less travel required with the East division schools not having to play in Texas/Oklahoma like the alliance and the West divsion has more of a presence in Texas.
Zigzag/Merger:
SJSU/Fresno State
Idaho-Utah St/Nevada-UNLV
/Colorado State-Wyoming
New Mexico St/New Mexico
UTSA/UTEP
Texas St/Rice
North Texas/Tulsa
La Tech/Tulane
Arkansas State/Memphis
/Southern Miss
MTSU/UAB
Western Kentucky/Marshall
/East Carolina
Ohio-Toledo-Northern Ill./
The difference between the Zigzag and the Alliance is the Alliance has East Carolina-Southern Miss and Colorado-Wyoming while the Zigzag has Ohio-Toledo-Northern Ill, larger Midwestern markets. Zigzag has more long term potential in Texas with UTSA, Texas St, UNT.
(01-24-2012 12:55 PM)Louis Kitton Wrote: [ -> ]BE expansion timeline:
2013: SMU, UH, SDSU, Boise, UCF (for 12 with Pitt/Syracuse)
2014: Air Force, Army (for 12 w/o Pitt/Syracuse)
2015: Navy, BYU (for 14 total)
The Big East really needs to change its name to Conference USA, and Conference USA change to the Big South (or something like that). Even if they split into some obvious East/West division format, the "West" is still scattered all over the place, from Dallas to San Diego to Boise. Geography is becoming less important in college football in general, but this conference is
really a hodge-podge of every corner of the Lower 48.
(01-25-2012 08:49 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote: [ -> ] (01-24-2012 12:55 PM)Louis Kitton Wrote: [ -> ]BE expansion timeline:
2013: SMU, UH, SDSU, Boise, UCF (for 12 with Pitt/Syracuse)
2014: Air Force, Army (for 12 w/o Pitt/Syracuse)
2015: Navy, BYU (for 14 total)
The Big East really needs to change its name to Conference USA, and Conference USA change to the Big South
Or they can just go :rolltide: themselves.
Great move for Navy, they will get better talent and outstanding for the BE as this solidifies their east coast presence which they may need if UCONN or Rutgers leave.
Adding Navy will also entice AF to join which would give them 2 of the 3 service academies and ensure they keep AQ status. Nobody i s going to exclude a conference with 2 service academies from the BCS. They'd be smart to just invite the rest of the MWC to join the BE for football only, instead of makign those teams find a new home for their nonfootball sports.
Adding Hawaii, Fresno, Nevada, Wyoming, AF, Colorado St and New Mexico gives them a much larger inventory and the network(s) that will be broadcasting their games the ability to schedule from early morning Sat AM to early morning Sunday AM EST during football season.
(01-26-2012 12:22 PM)onlinepole Wrote: [ -> ]Great move for Navy, they will get better talent
Imagine the armed forces we'd have if all the service academies joined the SEC.
(01-26-2012 12:22 PM)onlinepole Wrote: [ -> ]Great move for Navy, they will get better talent and outstanding for the BE as this solidifies their east coast presence which they may need if UCONN or Rutgers leave.
Adding Navy will also entice AF to join which would give them 2 of the 3 service academies and ensure they keep AQ status. Nobody i s going to exclude a conference with 2 service academies from the BCS. They'd be smart to just invite the rest of the MWC to join the BE for football only, instead of makign those teams find a new home for their nonfootball sports.
Adding Hawaii, Fresno, Nevada, Wyoming, AF, Colorado St and New Mexico gives them a much larger inventory and the network(s) that will be broadcasting their games the ability to schedule from early morning Sat AM to early morning Sunday AM EST during football season.
John Feinstein in the Wash Post wrote a big column: Does NOT like it.
He recounted his advice to Army when he talked with them.
Schedules should be 4 - 4 - 4
4 gimmies, 4 possibles and 4 tough.
Who will be the 4 gimmies? Army? Air Force? Notre Dame? USc?
Navy could have a hard time consistently winning 6 or 7 games and that would be a disaster for them.
(01-26-2012 01:11 PM)emu steve Wrote: [ -> ] (01-26-2012 12:22 PM)onlinepole Wrote: [ -> ]Great move for Navy, they will get better talent and outstanding for the BE as this solidifies their east coast presence which they may need if UCONN or Rutgers leave.
Adding Navy will also entice AF to join which would give them 2 of the 3 service academies and ensure they keep AQ status. Nobody i s going to exclude a conference with 2 service academies from the BCS. They'd be smart to just invite the rest of the MWC to join the BE for football only, instead of makign those teams find a new home for their nonfootball sports.
Adding Hawaii, Fresno, Nevada, Wyoming, AF, Colorado St and New Mexico gives them a much larger inventory and the network(s) that will be broadcasting their games the ability to schedule from early morning Sat AM to early morning Sunday AM EST during football season.
John Feinstein in the Wash Post wrote a big column: Does NOT like it.
He recounted his advice to Army when he talked with them.
Schedules should be 4 - 4 - 4
4 gimmies, 4 possibles and 4 tough.
Who will be the 4 gimmies? Army? Air Force? Notre Dame? USc?
Navy could have a hard time consistently winning 6 or 7 games and that would be a disaster for them.
1. Navy won't make the mistake of going away from the triple option like Army did early in its C-USA days.
2. Navy's Big East affiliation is more about their overall mission (and continued funding for the rest of their sports AND adding even more sports) than it is about football. They don't realistically expect to compete for a BE championship.
