Mega-alliances do not hold together...too many different "agendas" and no "glue" (no rivalries, geograhy, or common interests, etc.) to hold the conference together. I think the Alliance is a terrible idea.
(12-09-2011 02:24 PM)exCincy Kid Wrote: [ -> ]Mega-alliances do not hold together...too many different "agendas" and no "glue" (rivalries, geograhy, common interests, etc.) to hold the conference together. I think the Alliance is a terrible idea.
Short term its a good idea to preserve media value and compitition levels. Also, there is a decent chance that it could bond and form something long lasting. All potential member universities do share many similarities with eachother.
(12-09-2011 02:28 PM)mufanatehc Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2011 02:24 PM)exCincy Kid Wrote: [ -> ]Mega-alliances do not hold together...too many different "agendas" and no "glue" (rivalries, geograhy, common interests, etc.) to hold the conference together. I think the Alliance is a terrible idea.
Short term its a good idea to preserve media value and compitition levels. Also, there is a decent chance that it could bond and form something long lasting. All potential member universities do share many similarities with eachother.
And such a conference might hand out purple unicorns.
Look at the revolving door that has become C-USA. It's not that C-USA is a bad non BCS conference per se...many of the schools have good football attendance and there are a number of good programs there. But there is little in common in such a far flung conference, and you can expect members to come and go (just as they have) due to this. It's not a "knock" on the conference per se, but I think it serves to illustrate that there is little to hold that conference together. Just look how their fans turn on each other when a school has the audacity to do what it's adminstration thinks best for their program.
(12-09-2011 02:38 PM)exCincy Kid Wrote: [ -> ]Look at the revolving door that has become C-USA. It's not that C-USA is a bad non BCS conference per se...many of the schools have good football attendance and there are a number of good programs there. But there is little in common in such a far flung conference, and you can expect members to come and go (just as they have) due to this. It's not a "knock" on the conference per se, but I think it serves to illustrate that there is little to hold that conference together. Just look how their fans turn on each other when a school has the audacity to do what it's adminstration thinks best for their program.
It should be a knock on the conference.
The current members have no understanding that if they formed a true conference in a fashion that makes sense, they might do far better.
Instead they limp along and claim they've done well, even though their ROI is terrible.
The knock is that by clinging to a status quo (if that's even the right word in this circumstance) CUSA members have prevented themselves from looking to find a more sensible and profitable situation.
(12-09-2011 12:45 PM)Burn the Horse Wrote: [ -> ]If the MAC and Sun Belt could stand strong and members refused to jump ship, Conference USA would be finished. After being raided, they are going to have to replace those teams, they will try to do so from our two leagues. I'd LOVE to see the collapse of C-USA. both the MAC and Belt could cherry pick some new teams from the left overs and probably split their bowls.
it happened to the WAC, I don't see how C-USA is any different.
This.
(12-09-2011 02:38 PM)exCincy Kid Wrote: [ -> ]Look at the revolving door that has become C-USA. It's not that C-USA is a bad non BCS conference per se...many of the schools have good football attendance and there are a number of good programs there. But there is little in common in such a far flung conference, and you can expect members to come and go (just as they have) due to this. It's not a "knock" on the conference per se, but I think it serves to illustrate that there is little to hold that conference together. Just look how their fans turn on each other when a school has the audacity to do what it's adminstration thinks best for their program.
Well thought out perspective on their dilemma. Has a lot of validity. Had not quite thought of it that way.
(12-09-2011 03:13 PM)DrTorch Wrote: [ -> ]The current members have no understanding that if they formed a true conference in a fashion that makes sense, they might do far better.
Instead they limp along and claim they've done well, even though their ROI is terrible.
The knock is that by clinging to a status quo (if that's even the right word in this circumstance) CUSA members have prevented themselves from looking to find a more sensible and profitable situation.
I think the C-USA fans have got it in their minds that they are superior to the Belt and the MAC. they base a lot of their pride on that fact and are stubborn to the idea of moving their program to either of our leagues, even if it would be a good move for them. They place a stigma, particularly on the Sun Belt, and turn their collective noses up at us.
reminds me of the kid who gets picked on at school, so he goes home and kicks the dog. they aren't AQ, so they want to feel superior to someone...us.
..but when they discuss new member candidates for their conference to make up their losses, guess who is mentioned.....Sun Belt teams like FIU...go figure!
I know, right?!
they are too good for the lowly Sun Belt, but our teams are the ones they want. the real head scratcher is the popular support to bring in La Tech. traditionally C-USA has been a big market confernce. Tech does not offer any significant market, they aren't good, and their facilities are crap. I'm perfectly happy in the Sun Belt, so I'm not trying to pimp my program to C-USA, but I would just think that if their fans wanted a small market program they'd want Troy. We are good in football, excellent in baseball, have a new bball arena going up that is going to uber-nice, and we have a solid fanbase. Again, I don't want to move to Conference USA, just an observation.
Really, what I want for the Belt, is to bring in Southern Miss and La Tech. that would round us out at 12, give us a title game, and add two programs in our footprint...a good one and someone for homecoming.
and to be honest, if C-USA and the MWC actually do go through with their little merger...i'd like to see the Sun Belt and the MAC do something similar. I have a lot of respect for yalls Conference and really do enjoy watching all your league games during the mid-week ESPN airings. I'd love to develop some rivalries with you guys. With a few exceptions, we ARE located in a general longitudal footprint, it would be a North/South set-up. Makes more sense than the C-USA/MWC arrangement which will be east/west.
(12-09-2011 07:12 PM)Burn the Horse Wrote: [ -> ]and to be honest, if C-USA and the MWC actually do go through with their little merger...i'd like to see the Sun Belt and the MAC do something similar. I have a lot of respect for yalls Conference and really do enjoy watching all your league games during the mid-week ESPN airings. I'd love to develop some rivalries with you guys. With a few exceptions, we ARE located in a general longitudal footprint, it would be a North/South set-up. Makes more sense than the C-USA/MWC arrangement which will be east/west.
I don't think an alliance would be popular here but I think playing football games is a good idea. I think many MAC teams could use more play time against nonAQ opponents in their OOC. You are deffinitly closer than playing the WAC/MWC teams. I think playing more Eastern BE, Eastern CUSA, and Belt teams is a good idea.
(12-09-2011 02:38 PM)exCincy Kid Wrote: [ -> ]Look at the revolving door that has become C-USA. It's not that C-USA is a bad non BCS conference per se...many of the schools have good football attendance and there are a number of good programs there. But there is little in common in such a far flung conference, and you can expect members to come and go (just as they have) due to this. It's not a "knock" on the conference per se, but I think it serves to illustrate that there is little to hold that conference together. Just look how their fans turn on each other when a school has the audacity to do what it's adminstration thinks best for their program.
There's more in common if you can get past geography. UNLV, Memphis, UTEP, Rice, Tulsa, Tulane, UAB, New Mexico, Hawaii, and Fresno are all urban universities. Rice, Tulane, Tulsa, and Air Force are elite academic institutions. Wyoming, Nevada, New Mexico, and Hawaii are state flagships. Marshall, USM, ECU, Wyoming, and Air Force are located in smaller areas but have loyal followings and tradition. We're more of a 'big tent' conference.
(12-10-2011 12:30 PM)mufanatehc Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2011 02:38 PM)exCincy Kid Wrote: [ -> ]Look at the revolving door that has become C-USA. It's not that C-USA is a bad non BCS conference per se...many of the schools have good football attendance and there are a number of good programs there. But there is little in common in such a far flung conference, and you can expect members to come and go (just as they have) due to this. It's not a "knock" on the conference per se, but I think it serves to illustrate that there is little to hold that conference together. Just look how their fans turn on each other when a school has the audacity to do what it's adminstration thinks best for their program.
There's more in common if you can get past geography. UNLV, Memphis, UTEP, Rice, Tulsa, Tulane, UAB, New Mexico, Hawaii, and Fresno are all urban universities. Rice, Tulane, Tulsa, and Air Force are elite academic institutions. Wyoming, Nevada, New Mexico, and Hawaii are state flagships. Marshall, USM, ECU, Wyoming, and Air Force are located in smaller areas but have loyal followings and tradition. We're more of a 'big tent' conference.
The same can be said about any conference. The problem here (Same as with the new Big East) is geography. Travel cost will be through the roof.
Time zones! Cultural differences........if Marshall could not associate themselves with the people across the river, then how will they find common ground with schools like Fresno St.?
C-USA is a hodge podge of decent teams who like to turn their noses up at programs in much more geographically sound leagues because they have a false sense of superiority.
FYI: the Sun Belt has had a winning record against Conference USA the past two years.
(12-10-2011 01:00 PM)westernwilly Wrote: [ -> ] (12-10-2011 12:30 PM)mufanatehc Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2011 02:38 PM)exCincy Kid Wrote: [ -> ]Look at the revolving door that has become C-USA. It's not that C-USA is a bad non BCS conference per se...many of the schools have good football attendance and there are a number of good programs there. But there is little in common in such a far flung conference, and you can expect members to come and go (just as they have) due to this. It's not a "knock" on the conference per se, but I think it serves to illustrate that there is little to hold that conference together. Just look how their fans turn on each other when a school has the audacity to do what it's adminstration thinks best for their program.
There's more in common if you can get past geography. UNLV, Memphis, UTEP, Rice, Tulsa, Tulane, UAB, New Mexico, Hawaii, and Fresno are all urban universities. Rice, Tulane, Tulsa, and Air Force are elite academic institutions. Wyoming, Nevada, New Mexico, and Hawaii are state flagships. Marshall, USM, ECU, Wyoming, and Air Force are located in smaller areas but have loyal followings and tradition. We're more of a 'big tent' conference.
The same can be said about any conference. The problem here (Same as with the new Big East) is geography. Travel cost will be through the roof.
Time zones! Cultural differences........if Marshall could not associate themselves with the people across the river, then how will they find common ground with schools like Fresno St.?
With 16 or 18 teams, there will be minimal cross over games, so we'll just be playing our regular schedule with a bit of a western splash. This could actually cut down travel a bit if UTEP moves west.
Unlike the BE, we won't have teams in Kentucky, Ohio, and Florida in a western division...
(12-10-2011 01:13 PM)Burn the Horse Wrote: [ -> ]FYI: the Sun Belt has had a winning record against Conference USA the past two years.
Against UAB and Memphis..... The only quality win this season was against a suprisingly sub-par UCF team by one of your top teams.
...that would be germane, Mufanatech, if we were having a reasonable discussion, but we are dealing with people like LR eagle, who like to make pronouncements on superiority of C-USA that cannot be proven or even backed up. C-USA is just about as irrelevant as the other non BCS conferences when you are talking about the national scene. Ask a southerner who's in the MAC, and they will probably not know...do you think the average midwest football fan has any idea who the heck is in C-USA. Same for attendance smack...yeah, C-USA is way better than the MAC...but do you think for one moment that a follower of a BCS conference is any more impressed by an attendance avg of 24K as they are with 16K. Heck no...it's all "small potatoes" to them. That's why posters like that USM fan are funny without intending to be...they love to come on our board and the Sunbelt boards and puff up their chests when the fact of the matter is no once cares.
(12-10-2011 01:52 PM)exCincy Kid Wrote: [ -> ]...that would be germane, Mufanatech, if we were having a reasonable discussion, but we are dealing with people like LR eagle, who like to make pronouncements on superiority of C-USA that cannot be proven or even backed up. C-USA is just about as irrelevant as the other non BCS conferences when you are talking about the national scene. Ask a southerner who's in the MAC, and they will probably not know...do you think the average midwest football fan has any idea who the heck is in C-USA. Same for attendance smack...yeah, C-USA is way better than the MAC...but do you think for one moment that a follower of a BCS conference is any more impressed by an attendance avg of 24K as they are with 16K. Heck no...it's all "small potatoes" to them. That's why posters like that USM fan are funny without intending to be...they love to come on our board and the Sunbelt boards and puff up their chests when the fact of the matter is no once cares.
This reminds me of a conversation I had with a Walmart Wolverine a few years ago. It was when Brett Farve went to play for the Vikings. He liked Farve a lot and was telling me how he had Ole Miss in college. I corrected him with the information that Farve had played for Southern Miss, but he found this hard to believe as a key player of that caliber could never come from "some Div II school".
Typical B1G fan
(12-10-2011 02:21 PM)westernwilly Wrote: [ -> ] (12-10-2011 01:52 PM)exCincy Kid Wrote: [ -> ]...that would be germane, Mufanatech, if we were having a reasonable discussion, but we are dealing with people like LR eagle, who like to make pronouncements on superiority of C-USA that cannot be proven or even backed up. C-USA is just about as irrelevant as the other non BCS conferences when you are talking about the national scene. Ask a southerner who's in the MAC, and they will probably not know...do you think the average midwest football fan has any idea who the heck is in C-USA. Same for attendance smack...yeah, C-USA is way better than the MAC...but do you think for one moment that a follower of a BCS conference is any more impressed by an attendance avg of 24K as they are with 16K. Heck no...it's all "small potatoes" to them. That's why posters like that USM fan are funny without intending to be...they love to come on our board and the Sunbelt boards and puff up their chests when the fact of the matter is no once cares.
This reminds me of a conversation I had with a Walmart Wolverine a few years ago. It was when Brett Farve went to play for the Vikings. He liked Farve a lot and was telling me how he had Ole Miss in college. I corrected him with the information that Farve had played for Southern Miss, but he found this hard to believe as a key player of that caliber could never come from "some Div II school".
Typical B1G fan
I had an Ohio State fan ask if NIU was Division I. They really have no clue.