It's looking more and more likely that the best option for the BE is to throw in the towel on FB only invites, aka the academies and western expansions. Too many western entities want to have all of the advantages of the AQ tag but zero desire to truly make the BE better. What else can you expect from FB only invites? Regardless of what the short term issues and benefits to be derived from the FB only invite options, the BE is better served going after all sports invites only plus focusing only on those schools that are regionally appropriate to the conference. Right now there are 5 current members. Expand by 5 schools from the east to get to 10 schools (looking for 7 schools to get to 12 is too much). Here is what I would do now that it is getting beyond ludicrous for the BE:
The New Big East
Louisville
Rutgers
UCONN
South Florida
Cincy
UCF
ECU
Temple
Southern Miss
UMASS
This gives a nice group to maintain a northeast presence, a few schools with prominent fan bases and a school or two based on pure potential. Will this be enough for AQ status? Probably not in the short term. However, the advantage is that these schools look very similar to each other and the conference can begin to make long term bonds that will be much more effective than those FB only invites made purely for the sake of chasing after the AQ status. It's time to go after organic growth instead of chasing after growth via artificial means.
honest question not meaning to bash, why on earth would you take temple over a team like marshall? this is the reason the big east is going to fall below the mac
Maybe he thinks with Pitt and Cuse leaving (and potentially other bball schools) the BE needs to shore up BBall with Temple
(11-22-2011 05:07 PM)Herdinator Wrote: [ -> ]honest question not meaning to bash, why on earth would you take temple over a team like marshall? this is the reason the big east is going to fall below the mac
Basketball. I would take Marshall for all sports over Temple football though.
If your worried about basketball, and are not worried about the AQ- why would they not take Memphis? That to me doesn't make sense at all....
(11-22-2011 05:12 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]If your worried about basketball, and are not worried about the AQ- why would they not take Memphis? That to me doesn't make sense at all....
At least other schools pay attention to their football programs. The Memphis AD doesn't seem to know Memphis football exists. I feel really bad for their fans.
A few comments: I picked Temple over Marshall because Temple gives the BE a football presence in PA. Also, Temple FB is building into a pretty respectable entity. Sure their competition is not great, but they have had some pretty good wins recently, including the defeat of the BE champion in 2010 by Temple. Marshall doesn't have the markets and just simply does not wow anyone.
I did not include Memphis because their FB blows. Also, by adding Memphis the BE would have too much of a CUSA feel to it. I was trying to avoid that.
As tempting as it may be to put UH and SMU into the BE, in the end, this is too much like the TCU saga experienced earlier. They would be there until a better opportunity comes down the pike. Don't let the fanbases fool you, they would sell their souls to become the lackeys of Texas and Oklahoma. There is zero doubt this is true. They only profess to disdain UT and OU simply because they think their schools have zero chance of associating with them in a conference anyways. SMU briefly showed their true colors by putting in an unsolicited application to join the Big12 - in a very public way none the less.
Finally, I think UMASS has the potential to be a serious school that could provide quality athletics and not embarrass the conference on the academic side. Not all of the other candidates can do that. Overall, I think this combination brings most of the right kind of diversification with traveling fans, potential and markets to make it a good conference in the long term.
it still looks like a complete mish mesh conference usa wannabe.
the big east needs to decide what it is, is it a northeastern league? if it is just suck it up and build teams like umass and delaware. if they are a southeastern team suck it up and take east carolina and marshall
the fact that san diego state is now in play is just rediculous
If the Big East wanted a football presence in PA- they get Villanova to upgrade.
I think UMass is a lock if not now in 5-10 years. Everything you said is spot on.
I like it but I would keep the Texas schools and go to 12 teams. Also I would definitely replace Southern Mississippi with Memphis. At least Memphis is elite in a sport whereas Southern Miss is pretty non-descript in everything.
If the Big East's western expansion indeed falls apart, which I do not believe will be the case, I would go with this lineup:
Big East North:
Cincinnati <---> Louisville
Connecticut <---> Massachusetts
Rutgers <---> Temple
Big East South:
Central Florida <---> South Florida
East Carolina <---> Memphis
Houston <---> Southern Methodist
That is STILL a pretty good league and not appreciably different than the model that has suddenly become so complicated and which makes no sense if the AQ goes away anyway.
Also, in the above model each team has a natural rival to end their seasons against and some already have multiple rivals. The only exception would be ECU/MEM and even that isn't too much of a stretch. Also, Memphis and Louisville are pretty fierce rivals so it is not like the Tigers would have no rivals in their new league.
Finally, that lineup would DEFINITELY be stong enough that if you were to split from the basketball schools once and for all you would more than hold your own on the hardwood and you would be attractive to the television folks as well by virtue of your combination of market presence and product quality. In fact I would rank this ahead of the remaining Big East and perhaps just slightly behind the new ACC. That would be one helluva men's basketball league.
Honestly, the more I look at that lineup the more I like it for a lot of reasons. It is kind of like the old Metro Conference but with more potential, IMHO. That could be the "Big East" teams' best long term hope.
In football you play a EIGHT game league schedule - five against your own division and three against the other division. You are going to want that scheduling flexibility to knock off teams in the more prestigious leagues - even if it means some one-and-dones at those respective teams' home venues.
In men's basketball you could play a 16 game league schedule - a complete round robin in your own division (10 games) and a game each against every member of the other division. You could even go to 18 games in MBB and just schedule two made-for-TV games that vary from year to year.
This is what I would do if I was among the remaining schools. This is actually a legitimate long term solution that isn't guaranteed to blow up in your face in 5-10 years.
I also think that the Catholic schools might silently welcome this solution as it would alleviate from them a major burden - football - without making them the bad guys. There would certainly be issues to work out like NCAA credits, television agreements, etc., but I truly believe that this would work best for everyone in the long run.
Play the football conference championship game at the home stadium of the highest seeded team and rotate the men's basketball tournament. Play it in Newark on year, Louisville the next, Philly the year after that and Memphis the year after that. That would help keep things fresh and exciting and that could be what your league is known for.
Honestly, that would NOT be a bad outcome in all of this for you.
While I'm by no means an unbiased observer -- I want both BSU and SDSU to stay in the MWC -- I think there's more common sense in this thread than I've seen in most realignment discussions in a long, long time.
Big East Future
Done Deal
WVU Big12
Pitt ACC
Syracuse ACC
To Stablize things for the remaining football members
UofL Big 12
Cincy Big 12
USF CUSA
Rutgers MAC FB only
UCONN MAC FB only
That should fix things once and for all.
Just a thought, but maybe the BE could go BIG.
Have ALL the western schools as FB only and then expand the all sports in the current basic footprint. The western schools could then form an all sport league with some non fb schools(?)
BE FB 16 Teams
(all sports)
Rutgers
UConn
Cincy
Lville
USF
UCF
ECU
Memphis
FB ONLY
Navy (patriot other sports)
Temple (A10 other sports)
SMU *
Houston *
Boise St *
Air Force *
San Diego St *
BYU *
* form new "other" sport conference
they can add 2-4 non fb schools not sure who
Cal ST Bakersfield (since they're independent)
Denver
Seattle
Nebraska -Omaha(?) did they find a home yet?
Quote:Big East North:
Cincinnati <---> Louisville
Connecticut <---> Massachusetts
Rutgers <---> Temple
Big East South:
Central Florida <---> South Florida
East Carolina <---> Memphis
Houston <---> Southern Methodist
I agree with keeping the 2 Texas schools in the expansion plans but if the western school plan becomes too complicated, I could live with the above noted all sports members to be added to the Big East. It makes a lot more sense geographically and has tv markets in Cincinnati, Louisville, Hartford CT, New York metro area, Philadelphia, Orlando, Tampa, Memphis, Houston and Dallas.
(11-22-2011 05:12 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]If your worried about basketball, and are not worried about the AQ- why would they not take Memphis? That to me doesn't make sense at all....
agree.. and this from a USM fan who would truly miss our C-USA rivalry with Memphis.
If you're basketball is a concern, you should consider Memphis (espcially if the AQ is no longer in play) in the BE
Quote:At least Memphis is elite in a sport whereas Southern Miss is pretty non-descript in everything.
I dispute this one though Doc... I'd put our baseball up against anything the BE has in that sport
(again, this is one of those sports though where USM baseball would take a HIT, because our schedule RPI would reportedly drop if we were in the BE.)
The Continental Conference or "c2o"
Big Colonial Divison
Patriot
UConn
UMass
Rutgers
Army
Temple
Colonial
Navy
ECU
UCF
Old Dominion
App. St.
Big Frontier Divison
Frontier
Cincinnati
Louisville
USF
Memphis
S. Miss
Pioneer
SMU
Houston
Boise St.
San Diego St.
Air Force
* in football you play a 4-2-2-1 schedule. At the end of the season there is a playoff. In basketball you play everyone once. At the end of the season their is a 16 team tournament.
(11-22-2011 05:34 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote: [ -> ]I like it but I would keep the Texas schools and go to 12 teams. Also I would definitely replace Southern Mississippi with Memphis. At least Memphis is elite in a sport whereas Southern Miss is pretty non-descript in everything.
If the Big East's western expansion indeed falls apart, which I do not believe will be the case, I would go with this lineup:
Big East North:
Cincinnati <---> Louisville
Connecticut <---> Massachusetts
Rutgers <---> Temple
Big East South:
Central Florida <---> South Florida
East Carolina <---> Memphis
Houston <---> Southern Methodist
That is STILL a pretty good league and not appreciably different than the model that has suddenly become so complicated and which makes no sense if the AQ goes away anyway.
Also, in the above model each team has a natural rival to end their seasons against and some already have multiple rivals. The only exception would be ECU/MEM and even that isn't too much of a stretch. Also, Memphis and Louisville are pretty fierce rivals so it is not like the Tigers would have no rivals in their new league.
Finally, that lineup would DEFINITELY be stong enough that if you were to split from the basketball schools once and for all you would more than hold your own on the hardwood and you would be attractive to the television folks as well by virtue of your combination of market presence and product quality. In fact I would rank this ahead of the remaining Big East and perhaps just slightly behind the new ACC. That would be one helluva men's basketball league.
I think this is the best possible lineup for the Big East. Great markets, a couple of basketball heavyweights in Louisville and UConn (with some solid additional depth at the top in Cincy, Memphis, Temple, Houston, and UMass), and recruiting access to both Florida and/or Texas every season (if they schedule well). They would still have the same problems with bowls (i.e.: not enough teams that travel well), but might be able to work something out with the Liberty Bowl, keep the Belk/Charlotte Bowl, and find a couple of decent tie-ins in Texas and Florida.
(11-22-2011 05:22 PM)miko33 Wrote: [ -> ]A few comments: I picked Temple over Marshall because Temple gives the BE a football presence in PA. Also, Temple FB is building into a pretty respectable entity. Sure their competition is not great, but they have had some pretty good wins recently, including the defeat of the BE champion in 2010 by Temple. Marshall doesn't have the markets and just simply does not wow anyone.
I did not include Memphis because their FB blows. Also, by adding Memphis the BE would have too much of a CUSA feel to it. I was trying to avoid that.
As tempting as it may be to put UH and SMU into the BE, in the end, this is too much like the TCU saga experienced earlier. They would be there until a better opportunity comes down the pike. Don't let the fanbases fool you, they would sell their souls to become the lackeys of Texas and Oklahoma. There is zero doubt this is true. They only profess to disdain UT and OU simply because they think their schools have zero chance of associating with them in a conference anyways. SMU briefly showed their true colors by putting in an unsolicited application to join the Big12 - in a very public way none the less.
Finally, I think UMASS has the potential to be a serious school that could provide quality athletics and not embarrass the conference on the academic side. Not all of the other candidates can do that. Overall, I think this combination brings most of the right kind of diversification with traveling fans, potential and markets to make it a good conference in the long term.
Ahhh....there's so much truth in this post. It's honestly refreshing that somebody can see the disadvantages associated with the weakest BCS conference adding teams on B12 turf. I disagree about Memphis though. At the least they bring b-ball tourney $$$ and TV $$$.