In researching the terrible situation at Penn State and looking into the legal issues surrounding the reporting (or in Penn State's case, lack of reporting) of criminal acts, I stumbled across an interesting "series" produced at Penn State. Even with the black eye being dealt, there are some great broadcasts available to view:
http://expertopinion.psu.edu/collegiate_athletics.html#
With regard to Athletics being above the law, I think it goes without saying that ANY TIME a staff person or student is involved with CRIMINAL CONDUCT and the COMMISSION of a CRIME, either on or off campus, a coach or ATHLETIC DIRECTOR cannot take the situation into their own hands. If an ATHLETIC DIRECTOR wants to be a detective, he/she should go be a cop.
In NO CASE should an AD/coach ever be allowed to make the determination that an alleged crime is worthy of their cover-up or illegal representation of the department/University to an alleged victim or victim's family. The proper and legal obligation would be to turn it over to the police, regardless of the ramifications to a program or team. Period.
Anyhooo, the series is well worth the time to watch, I've enjoyed the two I've watched so far.
I have always been a Penn St. fan, and am disturbed regarding how Paterno is being treated. He did everything legally required of him- and should not be forced or expected to resign. Bottom line is that we can always second guess 10 years after the fact when we know more than Paterno did, but regardless Paterno did not cover anything up, followed his procedure and the AD covered it up and is being held responsible for that.
Paterno has always run a clean program, he makes one decision which violates no rule at all, and he is being forced to resign. That is a bad precident.
(11-08-2011 08:25 PM)etsubuc Wrote: [ -> ]I have always been a Penn St. fan, and am disturbed regarding how Paterno is being treated. He did everything legally required of him- and should not be forced or expected to resign. Bottom line is that we can always second guess 10 years after the fact when we know more than Paterno did, but regardless Paterno did not cover anything up, followed his procedure and the AD covered it up and is being held responsible for that.
Paterno has always run a clean program, he makes one decision which violates no rule at all, and he is being forced to resign. That is a bad precident.
I have four very close friends who all played at different era's of Paterno's time at Penn State. To say that they are loyal and will take anyone to task over his coaching tenure would be an understatement. They love him. I've talked to two of the four, all of whom coach at the college and professional level. They are just numb. They don't want to believe that he (Sandusky) did this but I think if you get 40 counts levied against you, doesn't sound good.
We definitely do not know what Coach Paterno's involvement is, certainly not enough for him to be named in the indictments. My biggest problem is that there was a report in 1998 of Sandusky's criminal behavior, he didn't retire until 1999. But they still gave him access to the facilities and he was allowed to keep working with children!!!! And the original District Attorney that was investigating the first complaint (I think) went missing and was declared dead?? huh??? that's just way out there if you ask me!
I like what Matt Millen said on ESPN... very emotional...
http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...se-scandal
Of course that he was still given access was bad- but ultimately the AD's problem, which he is paying for.
Paterno received a tip that this was going on- he forwarded it to his bosses. It is not the job of a head coach to investigate the crime, ive even read articles saying he should have tried to find the victims, etc. He is a football coach, not the police. If he thought in good faith that the AD investigated the allegations, then there is no problem with Paterno. As far as him still having access to campus- I do think this was a bad decision but not even close to enough to lose a job over. And keep in mind that it was just allegations- nobody had enough evidence until now to arrest. Again, if Paterno thought that the manner was taken seriously by the AD and there was no proof to the case, there is no problem as far as I am concerned.
Again, it is easy to sit here 10 years later after knowing much more than Paterno apparently did, and say that he should have reacted differently. But I could see a reasonable person acting exactly the way Paterno did. The coverup is the result of the AD
I still can't believe all this. Paterno just announced his retirement effective at the end of the season. Does he deserve to still be the coach?
In trying to remove the emotion from it, we're still in a country where you're innocent until proven guilty, and Paterno technically didn't break any written laws. Part of me says he should step down immediately, part of me says let the investigation play out and give him the chance to finish the season knowing he MAYBE could've done more, depending on what he knew exactly.
Lost in all of this are the victims who have reported the Sandusky's actions and the victims who haven't came forward yet. The whole thing is just unbelievable.
(11-08-2011 08:25 PM)etsubuc Wrote: [ -> ]I have always been a Penn St. fan, and am disturbed regarding how Paterno is being treated. He did everything legally required of him- and should not be forced or expected to resign. Bottom line is that we can always second guess 10 years after the fact when we know more than Paterno did, but regardless Paterno did not cover anything up, followed his procedure and the AD covered it up and is being held responsible for that.
Paterno has always run a clean program, he makes one decision which violates no rule at all, and he is being forced to resign. That is a bad precident.
One bad mistake?
He along with others (who also should be tarred and feathered) allowed his close friend to continue walking the streets terrorizing God knows how many children. With Paterno's blessing, Sandusky was allowed to hold a camp for kids on the Penn St campus as little as 4 years ago. We know now that this was NOT the first incident to have taken place on the Penn St campus. In addition Sandusky attended a 2007 preseason practice WITH A CHILD, Paterno and McQueary both went about their business like nothing happened. Sandusky was on the Penn St campus as little as a week ago and has an office across from the football facilities.
Andy Staples article in SI pretty much sums up my position. Joe Pa may not have broken any laws (though if it comes out later than 2002 was not the first time he learned of Sandusky crimes he should be strung up) but that doesn't mean he did the right thing.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/wr...=hp_t11_a1
22 and lover are completely correct. although no laws were broken by him, the court of public opinion will not be kind to Joe Pa. they looked the other way because sandusky was "one of their own" as he preyed on young boys. read the indictment (23 pages) it will turn your stomach. how they kept this quiet and looked the other way is a crime in itself
(11-09-2011 05:01 AM)etsubuc Wrote: [ -> ]Of course that he was still given access was bad- but ultimately the AD's problem, which he is paying for.
Paterno received a tip that this was going on- he forwarded it to his bosses. It is not the job of a head coach to investigate the crime, ive even read articles saying he should have tried to find the victims, etc. He is a football coach, not the police. If he thought in good faith that the AD investigated the allegations, then there is no problem with Paterno. As far as him still having access to campus- I do think this was a bad decision but not even close to enough to lose a job over. And keep in mind that it was just allegations- nobody had enough evidence until now to arrest. Again, if Paterno thought that the manner was taken seriously by the AD and there was no proof to the case, there is no problem as far as I am concerned.
Again, it is easy to sit here 10 years later after knowing much more than Paterno apparently did, and say that he should have reacted differently. But I could see a reasonable person acting exactly the way Paterno did. The coverup is the result of the AD
You're correct, it is the job of police to investigate which is why HE should have called them not passed the buck to someone else. Everyone involved in this case, from the GA who originally witnessed the crime, to Joe Pa, to the AD/VP passed on the opportunity to notify the authorities.
What's worse, they continued to allow a predator to walk around for years AFTER knowing he had been accused. In the case of the GA turned WR coach, after SEEING a crime.
How any of them sleep at night is beyond me.
At least you are consistent- if Paterno is guilty of anything, the GA is guilty of the exact same thing and should be forced to resign also.
Will be interesting to see if any more victims come out. If so, those victims might have a civil issue with the university for covering it up and potentially allowing their abuse to take place.
Lets not automatically assume that 100's of kids were sexually assaulted in this case though, the recidivism rates of sex offenders are less than you would think though child sex offenders have a bit larger recidivism rates than other sex offenses.
What's scary is just how many other people within the university and the athletic dept turned their heads while all this has been going on? Just to protect a football program. This includes the towel boys and janitors all the way up to the president and boosters.
(11-09-2011 12:34 PM)etsubuc Wrote: [ -> ]At least you are consistent- if Paterno is guilty of anything, the GA is guilty of the exact same thing and should be forced to resign also.
Will be interesting to see if any more victims come out. If so, those victims might have a civil issue with the university for covering it up and potentially allowing their abuse to take place.
Lets not automatically assume that 100's of kids were sexually assaulted in this case though, the recidivism rates of sex offenders are less than you would think though child sex offenders have a bit larger recidivism rates than other sex offenses.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Criminal Justice, Class of 2009
This is just the tip of the iceberg IMO. Sandusky has been running that foundation of his for years and has been bringing kids to the Penn St campus since he was the DC. His sudden retirement in 1998 threw up an immediate red flag in my mind where Joe Paterno goes. What Joe Pa knew and when he knew it will be heavily discussed and investigated in the weeks and months to come.
im no criminal justice major, but i agree, this is just the tip of the iceberg. justice should have at least started when a 28 y/o grad assistant sees a grown man raping a 10 year old boy, and finished when this 28 y/o grad assistant drags the grown man in a bloody pulp to Joe Pa's doorstep and holds him down while they both beat him unmercifully. both "men", grad assist and jo pa, failed miserablly, not in reporting the incident, but at being decent human beings.
(11-09-2011 01:16 PM)slappywhite Wrote: [ -> ]im no criminal justice major, but i agree, this is just the tip of the iceberg. justice should have at least started when a 28 y/o grad assistant sees a grown man raping a 10 year old boy, and finished when this 28 y/o grad assistant drags the grown man in a bloody pulp to Joe Pa's doorstep and holds him down while they both beat him unmercifully. both "men", grad assist and jo pa, failed miserablly, not in reporting the incident, but at being decent human beings.
Agreed
This may be the quote that says it all...
“Does Paterno have grandkids? (Yes, 17.) How would he feel if it were one of his grandkids in that shower with the coach? What would he have done then?”
-- Sheldon Kennedy, former NHL player and abuse victim
(11-09-2011 01:35 PM)BucNut22 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-09-2011 01:16 PM)slappywhite Wrote: [ -> ]im no criminal justice major, but i agree, this is just the tip of the iceberg. justice should have at least started when a 28 y/o grad assistant sees a grown man raping a 10 year old boy, and finished when this 28 y/o grad assistant drags the grown man in a bloody pulp to Joe Pa's doorstep and holds him down while they both beat him unmercifully. both "men", grad assist and jo pa, failed miserablly, not in reporting the incident, but at being decent human beings.
Agreed
Ditto, the only coverup Penn St should have been doing is staging it so that it looked like Sandusky "slipped" in the shower instead of being beaten to death by the grad assistant. How could a grown man live with himself and not do anything? Even if I didn't think I could take Sandusky in a fair fight I would found something big enough to hit with to get the job done.
Mike McQueary was a 28 year old, 6'5 230lbs former D1 athlete. The only thing he should have been worried about was losing the use of his right hand after caving Sandusky's face in. Instead he ran from the facility and called his dad.
Hate to judge but he's a coward.
...and yet he gets to "coach" this weekend. Or does he?
For the way they treated that man, I hope they never win another bowl game. And they need to fire that former GA also.
If I were a student at Penn St., I would likely transfer. If I were a faculty member under any school which that Board of Trustees is over, I would without a doubt switch jobs. And If I am a college president over a school that currently does not have football- the prospect of being good at academics but get fired because of something that an assistant football coach did, I would never bring football to that institution.
In all of this- none of the attention has been on the actual child rapist or the victims.