I feel like the "eliminate regulation!" thing is similar to "cut waste fraud and abuse." Sounds really good in a speech but its much harder to actually accomplish. Each regulation (save for a small percentage) was created for a reason, even if the public thinks there are just people writing them for fun, just like every step in the bureaucratic chain was created for a reason at some point. My point is, as a whole, it might be ugly, but its VERY hard to take away regulations because somebody out there will have a pretty valid reason for that regulation to exist.
Now, you might be able to eliminate some...but its not going to be many. Its not like one day a law will pass that eliminates all these crazy senseless laws and capitalism will flurrish and we live happy ever after. I'm also not saying its not wise to reexamine regulations and government processes, but I think what we can achieve with regulation reform is overblown.
BUT, it does sound good as a talking point.
Eliminate Department of Commerce, Labor & Education. Everyone gone. Now. Today. The ACT scores would not drop and GDP would not shrink. Hows that for wholesale chop. No hurt to the economy and less regulation.
You want more? Department of Transportation 1/2. Lets continue. Department of energy...IF it takes 15 years to get license and to build a nuke plant ( yes it does ) We can chop that up.
See that wasn't too hard. I am seeing corporate divisions growing at 180% eliminate 35% of work force and continue to grow, . don't tell me we can't leaner....not hearing that ..Not hearing that ...it can be done.
(10-28-2011 10:25 AM)NIU05 Wrote: [ -> ]Eliminate Department of Commerce, Labor & Education. Everyone gone. Now. Today. The ACT scores would not drop and GDP would not shrink. Hows that for wholesale chop. No hurt to the economy and less regulation.
You want more? Department of Transportation 1/2. Lets continue. Department of energy...IF it takes 15 years to get license and to build a nuke plant ( yes it does ) We can chop that up.
See that wasn't too hard. I am seeing corporate divisions growing at 180% eliminate 35% of work force and continue to grow, . don't tell me we can't leaner....not hearing that ..Not hearing that ...it can be done.
Wow, when you put it like that, it really IS easy :)
(10-28-2011 10:10 AM)niuguy Wrote: [ -> ]I feel like the "eliminate regulation!" thing is similar to "cut waste fraud and abuse." Sounds really good in a speech but its much harder to actually accomplish. Each regulation (save for a small percentage) was created for a reason, even if the public thinks there are just people writing them for fun, just like every step in the bureaucratic chain was created for a reason at some point. My point is, as a whole, it might be ugly, but its VERY hard to take away regulations because somebody out there will have a pretty valid reason for that regulation to exist.
Now, you might be able to eliminate some...but its not going to be many. Its not like one day a law will pass that eliminates all these crazy senseless laws and capitalism will flurrish and we live happy ever after. I'm also not saying its not wise to reexamine regulations and government processes, but I think what we can achieve with regulation reform is overblown.
BUT, it does sound good as a talking point.
The REAL problem is that many (most?) regs and laws are put in place to placate one constituency or another - whether it be one corporate group, labor group, or something else. They are a total mess, but one man's pork is another man's (including blue collar workers) job that allows him to put food on the table for his family. That's why it's so hard to change any of this BS. But some things are flat out wrong, like the fact that the Davis Bacon Act kicked in at $2000 when it was implemented in 1931, and that dollar amount has NEVER been escalated. That increases the cost of all small federal construction contracts, and it isn't raised because of the unions. It's an f'ing joke. God only knows how many other pieces of regulation cause similar problems.
(10-28-2011 10:35 AM)niuguy Wrote: [ -> ] (10-28-2011 10:25 AM)NIU05 Wrote: [ -> ]Eliminate Department of Commerce, Labor & Education. Everyone gone. Now. Today. The ACT scores would not drop and GDP would not shrink. Hows that for wholesale chop. No hurt to the economy and less regulation.
You want more? Department of Transportation 1/2. Lets continue. Department of energy...IF it takes 15 years to get license and to build a nuke plant ( yes it does ) We can chop that up.
See that wasn't too hard. I am seeing corporate divisions growing at 180% eliminate 35% of work force and continue to grow, . don't tell me we can't leaner....not hearing that ..Not hearing that ...it can be done.
Wow, when you put it like that, it really IS easy :)
Easy...no, not at all ..IT SUCKS.... speaking of SUCKS ..Toledo is here...GO HUSKIES!
(10-28-2011 10:35 AM)niuguy Wrote: [ -> ] (10-28-2011 10:25 AM)NIU05 Wrote: [ -> ]Eliminate Department of Commerce, Labor & Education. Everyone gone. Now. Today. The ACT scores would not drop and GDP would not shrink. Hows that for wholesale chop. No hurt to the economy and less regulation.
You want more? Department of Transportation 1/2. Lets continue. Department of energy...IF it takes 15 years to get license and to build a nuke plant ( yes it does ) We can chop that up.
See that wasn't too hard. I am seeing corporate divisions growing at 180% eliminate 35% of work force and continue to grow, . don't tell me we can't leaner....not hearing that ..Not hearing that ...it can be done.
Wow, when you put it like that, it really IS easy :)
But those are the people voting. They would have to get a job in the private sector. Do you know that a new refinery has not been built in over 20 something years? Why? Because of regulations and greenies. We have so much oil in shale thru out the U.S. but very little is being tapped. There are many regulations that are needed for safety etc. But many are done to inhibit the ability of businesses to function.
(10-28-2011 12:33 PM)klake87 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-28-2011 10:35 AM)niuguy Wrote: [ -> ] (10-28-2011 10:25 AM)NIU05 Wrote: [ -> ]Eliminate Department of Commerce, Labor & Education. Everyone gone. Now. Today. The ACT scores would not drop and GDP would not shrink. Hows that for wholesale chop. No hurt to the economy and less regulation.
You want more? Department of Transportation 1/2. Lets continue. Department of energy...IF it takes 15 years to get license and to build a nuke plant ( yes it does ) We can chop that up.
See that wasn't too hard. I am seeing corporate divisions growing at 180% eliminate 35% of work force and continue to grow, . don't tell me we can't leaner....not hearing that ..Not hearing that ...it can be done.
Wow, when you put it like that, it really IS easy :)
But those are the people voting. They would have to get a job in the private sector. Do you know that a new refinery has not been built in over 20 something years? Why? Because of regulations and greenies. We have so much oil in shale thru out the U.S. but very little is being tapped. There are many regulations that are needed for safety etc. But many are done to inhibit the ability of businesses to function.
Oil companies don't want to build more refineries. That would increase supply, lower demand, and lower their profits. They've actually closed refineries over the last couple years as demand has fallen to ensure prices stay high.
(10-28-2011 01:01 PM)NiuCoils Wrote: [ -> ] (10-28-2011 12:33 PM)klake87 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-28-2011 10:35 AM)niuguy Wrote: [ -> ] (10-28-2011 10:25 AM)NIU05 Wrote: [ -> ]Eliminate Department of Commerce, Labor & Education. Everyone gone. Now. Today. The ACT scores would not drop and GDP would not shrink. Hows that for wholesale chop. No hurt to the economy and less regulation.
You want more? Department of Transportation 1/2. Lets continue. Department of energy...IF it takes 15 years to get license and to build a nuke plant ( yes it does ) We can chop that up.
See that wasn't too hard. I am seeing corporate divisions growing at 180% eliminate 35% of work force and continue to grow, . don't tell me we can't leaner....not hearing that ..Not hearing that ...it can be done.
Wow, when you put it like that, it really IS easy :)
But those are the people voting. They would have to get a job in the private sector. Do you know that a new refinery has not been built in over 20 something years? Why? Because of regulations and greenies. We have so much oil in shale thru out the U.S. but very little is being tapped. There are many regulations that are needed for safety etc. But many are done to inhibit the ability of businesses to function.
Oil companies don't want to build more refineries. That would increase supply, lower demand, and lower their profits. They've actually closed refineries over the last couple years as demand has fallen to ensure prices stay high.
Who says that the current owners have to open up another one. If someone can make money, they will invest. Competition is the key. BP, Mobile, Shell etc have control. If an independent organization wants to build one, let them. I agree BP probably does not want a permit. But if Huskie Oil Company wants to begin a start up, has the capital ad knowledge, give them an opportunity. No one wants to go down that path because it is a no win situation. OPPORTUNITY is the key.
(10-28-2011 12:33 PM)klake87 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-28-2011 10:35 AM)niuguy Wrote: [ -> ] (10-28-2011 10:25 AM)NIU05 Wrote: [ -> ]Eliminate Department of Commerce, Labor & Education. Everyone gone. Now. Today. The ACT scores would not drop and GDP would not shrink. Hows that for wholesale chop. No hurt to the economy and less regulation.
You want more? Department of Transportation 1/2. Lets continue. Department of energy...IF it takes 15 years to get license and to build a nuke plant ( yes it does ) We can chop that up.
See that wasn't too hard. I am seeing corporate divisions growing at 180% eliminate 35% of work force and continue to grow, . don't tell me we can't leaner....not hearing that ..Not hearing that ...it can be done.
Wow, when you put it like that, it really IS easy :)
But those are the people voting. They would have to get a job in the private sector. Do you know that a new refinery has not been built in over 20 something years? Why? Because of regulations and greenies. We have so much oil in shale thru out the U.S. but very little is being tapped. There are many regulations that are needed for safety etc. But many are done to inhibit the ability of businesses to function.
I would argue that the biggest inhibitor to oil refineries, nuke plants, and even wind farms is the dreaded...
NIMBY!
(10-28-2011 01:11 PM)niuguy Wrote: [ -> ] (10-28-2011 12:33 PM)klake87 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-28-2011 10:35 AM)niuguy Wrote: [ -> ] (10-28-2011 10:25 AM)NIU05 Wrote: [ -> ]Eliminate Department of Commerce, Labor & Education. Everyone gone. Now. Today. The ACT scores would not drop and GDP would not shrink. Hows that for wholesale chop. No hurt to the economy and less regulation.
You want more? Department of Transportation 1/2. Lets continue. Department of energy...IF it takes 15 years to get license and to build a nuke plant ( yes it does ) We can chop that up.
See that wasn't too hard. I am seeing corporate divisions growing at 180% eliminate 35% of work force and continue to grow, . don't tell me we can't leaner....not hearing that ..Not hearing that ...it can be done.
Wow, when you put it like that, it really IS easy :)
But those are the people voting. They would have to get a job in the private sector. Do you know that a new refinery has not been built in over 20 something years? Why? Because of regulations and greenies. We have so much oil in shale thru out the U.S. but very little is being tapped. There are many regulations that are needed for safety etc. But many are done to inhibit the ability of businesses to function.
I would argue that the biggest inhibitor to oil refineries, nuke plants, and even wind farms is the dreaded...
NIMBY!
That has a lot to do with it. Like Garbage dumps. NIMBY. Well then, we are screwed until someone develops a machine that uses garbage to run in a evironmentally friendly way at a low cost.
(10-28-2011 10:25 AM)NIU05 Wrote: [ -> ]Eliminate Department of Commerce, Labor & Education. Everyone gone. Now. Today. The ACT scores would not drop and GDP would not shrink. Hows that for wholesale chop. No hurt to the economy and less regulation.
You want more? Department of Transportation 1/2. Lets continue. Department of energy...IF it takes 15 years to get license and to build a nuke plant ( yes it does ) We can chop that up.
See that wasn't too hard. I am seeing corporate divisions growing at 180% eliminate 35% of work force and continue to grow, . don't tell me we can't leaner....not hearing that ..Not hearing that ...it can be done.
Chopping that many jobs all at once isn't going to hurt the economy?
I hope you weren't an economics major. God help us all if that is what they are teaching these days.
(10-28-2011 01:06 PM)klake87 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-28-2011 01:01 PM)NiuCoils Wrote: [ -> ] (10-28-2011 12:33 PM)klake87 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-28-2011 10:35 AM)niuguy Wrote: [ -> ] (10-28-2011 10:25 AM)NIU05 Wrote: [ -> ]Eliminate Department of Commerce, Labor & Education. Everyone gone. Now. Today. The ACT scores would not drop and GDP would not shrink. Hows that for wholesale chop. No hurt to the economy and less regulation.
You want more? Department of Transportation 1/2. Lets continue. Department of energy...IF it takes 15 years to get license and to build a nuke plant ( yes it does ) We can chop that up.
See that wasn't too hard. I am seeing corporate divisions growing at 180% eliminate 35% of work force and continue to grow, . don't tell me we can't leaner....not hearing that ..Not hearing that ...it can be done.
Wow, when you put it like that, it really IS easy :)
But those are the people voting. They would have to get a job in the private sector. Do you know that a new refinery has not been built in over 20 something years? Why? Because of regulations and greenies. We have so much oil in shale thru out the U.S. but very little is being tapped. There are many regulations that are needed for safety etc. But many are done to inhibit the ability of businesses to function.
Oil companies don't want to build more refineries. That would increase supply, lower demand, and lower their profits. They've actually closed refineries over the last couple years as demand has fallen to ensure prices stay high.
Who says that the current owners have to open up another one. If someone can make money, they will invest. Competition is the key. BP, Mobile, Shell etc have control. If an independent organization wants to build one, let them. I agree BP probably does not want a permit. But if Huskie Oil Company wants to begin a start up, has the capital ad knowledge, give them an opportunity. No one wants to go down that path because it is a no win situation. OPPORTUNITY is the key.
I agree with Coils that it is a large part of trying to keep the profits rolling in. As for Klake's comments, Do you REALLY believe that the oil cartel will allow one to be built? All this "free market" stuff sounds good in theory but this is the real world and it doesn't work like your fantasy world.
(10-28-2011 01:11 PM)niuguy Wrote: [ -> ] (10-28-2011 12:33 PM)klake87 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-28-2011 10:35 AM)niuguy Wrote: [ -> ] (10-28-2011 10:25 AM)NIU05 Wrote: [ -> ]Eliminate Department of Commerce, Labor & Education. Everyone gone. Now. Today. The ACT scores would not drop and GDP would not shrink. Hows that for wholesale chop. No hurt to the economy and less regulation.
You want more? Department of Transportation 1/2. Lets continue. Department of energy...IF it takes 15 years to get license and to build a nuke plant ( yes it does ) We can chop that up.
See that wasn't too hard. I am seeing corporate divisions growing at 180% eliminate 35% of work force and continue to grow, . don't tell me we can't leaner....not hearing that ..Not hearing that ...it can be done.
Wow, when you put it like that, it really IS easy :)
But those are the people voting. They would have to get a job in the private sector. Do you know that a new refinery has not been built in over 20 something years? Why? Because of regulations and greenies. We have so much oil in shale thru out the U.S. but very little is being tapped. There are many regulations that are needed for safety etc. But many are done to inhibit the ability of businesses to function.
I would argue that the biggest inhibitor to oil refineries, nuke plants, and even wind farms is the dreaded...
NIMBY!
You know what? I think we should build a refinery right next door to Klake's house. Lets see how he would react when his property value plummets even worse than it is now. Think he would still be in favor of the new refinery? Not a chance.
(10-29-2011 01:14 AM)RobertN Wrote: [ -> ] (10-28-2011 01:11 PM)niuguy Wrote: [ -> ] (10-28-2011 12:33 PM)klake87 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-28-2011 10:35 AM)niuguy Wrote: [ -> ] (10-28-2011 10:25 AM)NIU05 Wrote: [ -> ]Eliminate Department of Commerce, Labor & Education. Everyone gone. Now. Today. The ACT scores would not drop and GDP would not shrink. Hows that for wholesale chop. No hurt to the economy and less regulation.
You want more? Department of Transportation 1/2. Lets continue. Department of energy...IF it takes 15 years to get license and to build a nuke plant ( yes it does ) We can chop that up.
See that wasn't too hard. I am seeing corporate divisions growing at 180% eliminate 35% of work force and continue to grow, . don't tell me we can't leaner....not hearing that ..Not hearing that ...it can be done.
Wow, when you put it like that, it really IS easy :)
But those are the people voting. They would have to get a job in the private sector. Do you know that a new refinery has not been built in over 20 something years? Why? Because of regulations and greenies. We have so much oil in shale thru out the U.S. but very little is being tapped. There are many regulations that are needed for safety etc. But many are done to inhibit the ability of businesses to function.
I would argue that the biggest inhibitor to oil refineries, nuke plants, and even wind farms is the dreaded...
NIMBY!
You know what? I think we should build a refinery right next door to Klake's house. Lets see how he would react when his property value plummets even worse than it is now. Think he would still be in favor of the new refinery? Not a chance.
Leave it to a liberal to reply with an emotional ad hominem attack. Assuming a new refinery were to be built next to Klake's house, I would not be so sure about his property value declining. The refinery might want to expand and Klake could sell his house for a huge profit, with it being right next to the refinery and all.
Come on, RobertN! You are really not trying hard enough. The liberal way of exacting revenge on your enemies' property would be to abuse Eminet Domain to kick Klake out and put a shopping mall there to collect more taxes, or declare his property a wet land, so he can not build anything on it. You could also declare his property a habitat for an endangered species and forbid him from having any exterior lighting.
(10-31-2011 04:34 PM)Huskie_Jon Wrote: [ -> ] (10-29-2011 01:14 AM)RobertN Wrote: [ -> ] (10-28-2011 01:11 PM)niuguy Wrote: [ -> ] (10-28-2011 12:33 PM)klake87 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-28-2011 10:35 AM)niuguy Wrote: [ -> ]Wow, when you put it like that, it really IS easy :)
But those are the people voting. They would have to get a job in the private sector. Do you know that a new refinery has not been built in over 20 something years? Why? Because of regulations and greenies. We have so much oil in shale thru out the U.S. but very little is being tapped. There are many regulations that are needed for safety etc. But many are done to inhibit the ability of businesses to function.
I would argue that the biggest inhibitor to oil refineries, nuke plants, and even wind farms is the dreaded...
NIMBY!
You know what? I think we should build a refinery right next door to Klake's house. Lets see how he would react when his property value plummets even worse than it is now. Think he would still be in favor of the new refinery? Not a chance.
Leave it to a liberal to reply with an emotional ad hominem attack. Assuming a new refinery were to be built next to Klake's house, I would not be so sure about his property value declining. The refinery might want to expand and Klake could sell his house for a huge profit, with it being right next to the refinery and all.
Come on, RobertN! You are really not trying hard enough. The liberal way of exacting revenge on your enemies' property would be to abuse Eminet Domain to kick Klake out and put a shopping mall there to collect more taxes, or declare his property a wet land, so he can not build anything on it. You could also declare his property a habitat for an endangered species and forbid him from having any exterior lighting.
Actually, the tea party is becoming endangered so I guess this might be possible.
(10-28-2011 01:01 PM)NiuCoils Wrote: [ -> ]Oil companies don't want to build more refineries. That would increase supply, lower demand, and lower their profits. They've actually closed refineries over the last couple years as demand has fallen to ensure prices stay high.
No no no no no. Refineries would be built post haste by oil companies all over the country if the regulations where not so difficult to navigate and attend to....
New refineries would be smaller, cleaner and more effecient. They would be expensive to build, yes, but they would be cheaper to operate and could put out more product.
You can not expect any company to self regulate...they are after one thing and one thing only profit..the end justifies the means...
If it were not for federal regulations Lake erie would be one big bonfire, our drinking water would be toxic, etc.
Regulation has its place..but it must be written and implemented for the general good, not a special interest.
its funny many take no issue with "personal" regulation....but when it comes to regulating business, well that is heresy.
(11-07-2011 12:43 PM)BobL Wrote: [ -> ]You can not expect any company to self regulate...they are after one thing and one thing only profit..the end justifies the means...
If it were not for federal regulations Lake erie would be one big bonfire, our drinking water would be toxic, etc.
Regulation has its place..but it must be written and implemented for the general good, not a special interest.
its funny many take no issue with "personal" regulation....but when it comes to regulating business, well that is heresy.
We do need regulations. There are a lot of people who lack morals. We, s a society, need to determine those. Setting up carbon credits when 80% of the world doesnt do it is stupid. Unless we put tariffs on all imported products but we cant because China would stop buying our debt
(11-07-2011 12:50 PM)klake87 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-07-2011 12:43 PM)BobL Wrote: [ -> ]You can not expect any company to self regulate...they are after one thing and one thing only profit..the end justifies the means...
If it were not for federal regulations Lake erie would be one big bonfire, our drinking water would be toxic, etc.
Regulation has its place..but it must be written and implemented for the general good, not a special interest.
its funny many take no issue with "personal" regulation....but when it comes to regulating business, well that is heresy.
We do need regulations. There are a lot of people who lack morals. We, s a society, need to determine those. Setting up carbon credits when 80% of the world doesnt do it is stupid. Unless we put tariffs on all imported products but we cant because China would stop buying our debt
I find that to be a poor excuse for not taking action...China doesn't so we shouldn't...
We as a country are supposed to be a world leader...we should lead and do what is right. I dont know what if any economic impact it would have..but something must be done.
(11-07-2011 01:48 PM)BobL Wrote: [ -> ] (11-07-2011 12:50 PM)klake87 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-07-2011 12:43 PM)BobL Wrote: [ -> ]You can not expect any company to self regulate...they are after one thing and one thing only profit..the end justifies the means...
If it were not for federal regulations Lake erie would be one big bonfire, our drinking water would be toxic, etc.
Regulation has its place..but it must be written and implemented for the general good, not a special interest.
its funny many take no issue with "personal" regulation....but when it comes to regulating business, well that is heresy.
We do need regulations. There are a lot of people who lack morals. We, s a society, need to determine those. Setting up carbon credits when 80% of the world doesnt do it is stupid. Unless we put tariffs on all imported products but we cant because China would stop buying our debt
I find that to be a poor excuse for not taking action...China doesn't so we shouldn't...
We as a country are supposed to be a world leader...we should lead and do what is right. I dont know what if any economic impact it would have..but something must be done.
Cost of manufacturing in the U.S. would go up because utility prices would skyrocket. We already have a competitive disadvantage with China. They set the pay rates. If electricity, gas etc would cost more, it will make manufacturing in the U.S. more costly. This will make more manufacturing jobs leave the U.S. One of the worst Ideas.