CSNbbs

Skimming through a bunch of different CFB boards, it strikes me that so few people realize what a horrible position A&M is in right now.

The prevailing attitude is that A&M will join the SEC when OU blows up the conference. Or perhaps they'll go indy and then join the SEC after a year.

The problem is that no matter what happens to their status or to the Big-12 conference, they're still going to be Baylor's hostage.

OU could blow up the conference tomorrow and take 3 others to the PAC. UT could go indy. Baylor and the rest could jump to the BE and the Big-12 could cease to exist as a conference and A&M would still not be able to join the SEC unless Baylor agrees to sign the waiver.

Hell, the BE with Baylor could sign some completely magical contract that pays them more than what they made in the Big-12(so they have no basis to sue the SEC) and A&M still couldn't join unless Ken Starr felt like signing a piece of paper he's under no obligation to sign.

There are only 2 possible ways that A&M can join the SEC:

1.) Kenny and friends give in for whatever reason and sign

or

2.) the SEC removes the stipulation from the invite

It doesn't matter what happens to any other schools or conferences. As long as neither of those things happen, A&M's invite is invalid.


The A&M fans don't want to badmouth the SEC right now and other fans are too busy laughing at A&M, but the SEC really screwed them here.

I'm of the view that Baylor and Beebe were pretty pathetic to throw this wrench into the works at the 11th hour, but what was Slive thinking when he tied A&M up and handed them over for Baylor to take hostage?

I don't have any particular connection or allegiance to A&M, and yeah they really sabotaged themselves with all the premature celebrations during the process, but I really feel for how bad their situation is right now.

So... if A&M doesn't want to be in the Big 12 with Texas any more, and can't join the SEC because of Baylor, then their only course of action is to join the Big East !! They'd make a nice travel partner for TCU.

Cincinnati
Connecticut
Louisville
Pitt
Rutgers
South Florida
Syracuse
Texas A&M
TCU
West Virginia

Maybe add KU and KSU for #11 and #12. Missouri and ISU for #13 and #14 if needed.

The SEC is to blame, although I wonder if any conference might do the same from here on out. Makes me wonder if there may have to be some sort of behind the scenes coordination to make sure everyone no one is out millions of dollars (and hence able to file suit) may have to take place. IOW, this piecemeal, one school here, two schools there expansion we are so used to my be a thing of the past.

(09-08-2011 10:44 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote: [ -> ]The SEC is to blame, although I wonder if any conference might do the same from here on out. Makes me wonder if there may have to be some sort of behind the scenes coordination to make sure everyone no one is out millions of dollars (and hence able to file suit) may have to take place. IOW, this piecemeal, one school here, two schools there expansion we are so used to my be a thing of the past.

Isn't this the first time a conference has asked schools to sign a waiver that they will not sue???

Seems like the SEC is asking for too much, why should any school sign any such waiver, just because the SEC wants it.

The SEC is not to blame. I don't think it is wrong for the SEC to simply ask A&M to make sure they are clear of the Big12 before entering the SEC. A&M has an invite. It doesn't matter if it takes them 2 years to be free of Baylor and the Big12. As soon as they are clear. They can become a member of the SEC.

(09-08-2011 10:51 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-08-2011 10:44 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote: [ -> ]The SEC is to blame, although I wonder if any conference might do the same from here on out. Makes me wonder if there may have to be some sort of behind the scenes coordination to make sure everyone no one is out millions of dollars (and hence able to file suit) may have to take place. IOW, this piecemeal, one school here, two schools there expansion we are so used to my be a thing of the past.

Isn't this the first time a conference has asked schools to sign a waiver that they will not sue???

Seems like the SEC is asking for too much, why should any school sign any such waiver, just because the SEC wants it.

Asking for too much or is the SEC trying to give the Big-12 a chance to save itself?

(09-08-2011 10:54 PM)hawghiggs Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think it is wrong for the SEC to simply ask A&M to make sure they are clear of the Big12 before entering the SEC.

The problem is that even if they're completely clear and Baylor loses any possibility of a successful lawsuit, they still can't join the SEC unless Baylor signs the waiver.

Every lawyer in the country could speak out and spell out in fine detail why Baylor has no basis for a lawsuit and it wouldn't matter.

The invite is contingent on signed waivers from every member of the Big12. No matter how non-existant the chances are for a lawsuit, A&M would still need Baylor to sign a waiver for the invite to be valid.

If the Pac goes to 14 or 16, I'd bet that SEC takes off that stipulation. A&M could always threaten to go to the Pac if they're only at 14 and UT doesn't go. I guess they could always call the B1G too. But I think the day OU leaves for the Pac, SEC lets A&M in, no questions asked

I don't think Baylor wants to actually file suit against any entity. I think they want time to find a nice home that isn't the MWC or C-USA, if possible. Hello, BEast!

Since this is the rumor of the last six-hour rumor cycle, and I'm running with it like the next rumor won't greet me tomorrow AM, I think the BEast should invite the seven Big XII members not named A&M, UT, and OU. Let the big guys finally find themselves. A little experimentation never hurt anyone. I think the BEast would be doing them (both parties) a favor.

Why not? 16 fb schools. CCG game. Three, geographic regions of eight for BB/Olympic sports. What's not to like?

(09-08-2011 10:04 PM)TomThumb Wrote: [ -> ]Skimming through a bunch of different CFB boards, it strikes me that so few people realize what a horrible position A&M is in right now.

The prevailing attitude is that A&M will join the SEC when OU blows up the conference. Or perhaps they'll go indy and then join the SEC after a year.

The problem is that no matter what happens to their status or to the Big-12 conference, they're still going to be Baylor's hostage.

OU could blow up the conference tomorrow and take 3 others to the PAC. UT could go indy. Baylor and the rest could jump to the BE and the Big-12 could cease to exist as a conference and A&M would still not be able to join the SEC unless Baylor agrees to sign the waiver.

Hell, the BE with Baylor could sign some completely magical contract that pays them more than what they made in the Big-12(so they have no basis to sue the SEC) and A&M still couldn't join unless Ken Starr felt like signing a piece of paper he's under no obligation to sign.

There are only 2 possible ways that A&M can join the SEC:

1.) Kenny and friends give in for whatever reason and sign

or

2.) the SEC removes the stipulation from the invite

It doesn't matter what happens to any other schools or conferences. As long as neither of those things happen, A&M's invite is invalid.


The A&M fans don't want to badmouth the SEC right now and other fans are too busy laughing at A&M, but the SEC really screwed them here.

I'm of the view that Baylor and Beebe were pretty pathetic to throw this wrench into the works at the 11th hour, but what was Slive thinking when he tied A&M up and handed them over for Baylor to take hostage?

I don't have any particular connection or allegiance to A&M, and yeah they really sabotaged themselves with all the premature celebrations during the process, but I really feel for how bad their situation is right now.

Maybe he was thinking "How can I let these guys down easy after all the talking we did and all the moving plans they have already made?"

Acts that border on incompetence:

• Texas A$M issues a letter to the Big XII indicating they will leave next summer if they have an invitation to another conference
  • This means that the decision for A$M to leave is in the hands of another conference - that's why the SEC didn't invite TAMU to begin with
    
• Big XII - Dan Beebe - issues a letter saying all Big XII institutions waived the right to file a lawsuit when he had no authority or grounds to say so
• SEC indicates TAMU has an invitation contingent upon all of its Big XII peers waiving the right to sue
  • This seems inevitable after the way that TAMU sent their kind of withdrawal letter shifting the decision to the SEC

Of those, the final one is the most sensible. I can't imagine Dan Beebe and TAMU are both members of the Big XII in one years time, should it exist at that point. Ken Starr doesn't even come close to making the list.

It's somewhat understandable that TAMU made a contingency in their withdrawal. Should their move lead to independence, they would have forfeited about 190% of league revenue from the Big XII, so there's a lot at stake. But, the current debacle seems to be the unintended consequence of not being bold enough to just say screw you guys, we're gone.

The SEC is ultimately going to have to lessen their stance if they want A&M coming. While all the schools might agree not to sue, it's doubtful they'll all sign waivers as it's not a good idea to limit your rights going forward if new things are revealed. There has never been legal waivers signed with conference changes in the past.

Two things seem patently obvious:

1. The SEC is not wildly enthusiastic about expansion.

2. Texas A&M screwed up their decision making royally. They could have applied to the SEC a year ago when Nebraska & Colorado were leaving the Big XII. They didn't. When the Big XII was struggling to survive, they made a long term commitment to the conference. Just as the conference is getting back on its feet, A&M changes its mind, renegs on the agreement, & begs for admission to the SEC as it should have done a year ago. Should anyone be surprised that some in the Big XII are angry & are in no mood to facilitate the transition for A&M?

In the end A&M will go to SEC. This simply taps the brakes for a second and let's everyone catch their breath. The only reason any in the BE are upset is they may not get leftover's. In the end one of 2 things is likely to happen.. B12 holds together and adds 1 or 3, or The SEC gets 2, Pac 4 and the BE takes all of the leftovers which means it likely has to add one more to get to 14. As a UCF fan I hope the first thing happens, even though we could well be that #14. Personally if we go to super conf, I want to see 5 of them and not 4.

(09-09-2011 06:10 AM)goodknightfl Wrote: [ -> ]In the end A&M will go to SEC. This simply taps the brakes for a second and let's everyone catch their breath. The only reason any in the BE are upset is they may not get leftover's. In the end one of 2 things is likely to happen.. B12 holds together and adds 1 or 3, or The SEC gets 2, Pac 4 and the BE takes all of the leftovers which means it likely has to add one more to get to 14. As a UCF fan I hope the first thing happens, even though we could well be that #14. Personally if we go to super conf, I want to see 5 of them and not 4.

If A&M to the SEC is a sure thing, then why did the SEC put that stipulation in there? Maybe . . .

SEC didn't want any headaches. Stopping A&M isn't about stopping A&M. I really don't think the SEC is all in on expansion, but A&M is too good to pass on. In the end lawyers and Business people will do what they do, and it will get worked out. Will the BE get the schools they covet?? maybe... maybe not. If it was up to the leftover b12 schools the answer would be no. They would much rather the B12 add one or 3 and stay intact.

(09-09-2011 06:26 AM)goodknightfl Wrote: [ -> ]SEC didn't want any headaches. Stopping A&M isn't about stopping A&M. I really don't think the SEC is all in on expansion, but A&M is too good to pass on. In the end lawyers and Business people will do what they do, and it will get worked out.

Huh??? Who is it about stopping?

These aren't business people who are in the practice of cutting deals. These are universities. If it were business people, it never would've gotten to this.

Face it. They are f***ed. Who's going to back down in this stand off? Wake me up when it's over.

It is about either saving the B12, and or getting all of the leftover's into another BCS conf. Business ends up in court all the time over business deals, In the end the BE will either take all of the leftovers, or the B12 will figure out how to go on as a conf. It's been 2 days,,, jeez e.. We have more lawyers than any country in the world for a reason, lawsuits happen 1000's of times every day, and in this case there isn't even a suit happening yet. If the B12 let 3 go today, WV was invited by the SEC, and all the rest of BE was invited to join B12 and accepted except UCONN, you would be one of the first yelling for them to fight back.

I actually think Baylor would potentially sign the waiver before Iowa State or Kansas State, both of which have borrowed money based on that signed TV contract.

Of course, truth be told, I really believe that this is nothing more than a stalling process by the smaller B12 schools to slow things down. If it all still falls apart, it gives everyone a chance to negotiate a soft landing (since the Big 12 would dissolve in 9 months), but it also gives the university presidents a lot of chances to sit down and hash things out.

I still don't understand why the SEC made the condition. I mean, yes, I understand the idea that they were trying to avoid being sued. But, no one else has ever required a waiver of litigation rights in conference realignment. And you have to know that the SEC knew that several of the B12 schools wouldn't hand it over without some consideration (why would you?). Even though there has been no lawsuit from any party, if the threat of one was deemed futile, why even make it a condition?

In the end, A&M will still leave. Their fans will demand it. But perhaps this gives the remainder of the Big 12 time to set up a third tier OU/OSU regional deal or somesuch thing.

when the SEC gets 14 line up.. Then they tell aTm come on...

I bet they don't ask the Big East to sign a waiver...

When they invite West Virginia.....