FSU?
Looks like some are beginning to call bullsh*t on the whole gentle's agreement rumor. Look like most in The SEC want FSU.
Stay tuned, this is going to get interesting.
CJ
That is more of an opinion blog than fact. Even the Spurrier "proof" is a stretch.
Still, the big overall point of "Why limit your options from the very start" remains valid. I never have been sold on this gentleman's agreement mumbo jumbo. At best, I should say, I think it's been taken out of context and used to make widespread claims that may not actually fall under this agreement.
Gentlemen don't acknowledge gentlemen agreements. They by their nature are meant to be kept in private.
Well I hope hes right!
FSU leaving for the SEC is amazing news for my team!
Quote:Also, our own sources inside the SEC say no such agreement exists. They claim that some schools might band together on their own to block a school like FSU from entering, but it would not be part of some league mandate.
OK, so just what the fudge is that if not a "gentlemen's agreement?"
Of course there's no mandate or official policy. You only need handshake agreements in lieu of mandates and official policies. That column is disputing a claim that no one ever made in the first place.
The only question is whether or not those allied by the agreement have enough votes to veto everyone else.
(08-16-2011 10:51 AM)HarborPointe Wrote: [ -> ]OK, so just what the fudge is that if not an "gentlemen's agreement?"
It's an agreement between individuals that allows the first man to smile into another man's face, while the 2nd man (
the gentleman he has the agreement with) stabs the other man in the back...
Of course this is NOT official SEC policy, its just an informal arrangement (the definition of a gentleman's agreement) among the SEC East schools. I also have to believe that the key to all this is the home state school.
For example, while the agreement may be to not vote for little brother if big brother doesn't want them, if say Tennessee WANTED Memphis in the SEC (lolz) then the agreement would not be needed.
So, if Florida is cool with FSU coming in (and according to reports, they've been OK with the idea in the past) then the gentleman's agreement doesn't apply.
The whole point of this arrangement is to keep peace with state politicians.
For example, lets say Louisville thinks this would be a perfect opportunity for them to join the SEC and wants UK to sponsor them. UK doesn't want UL to horn in on their racket, but they also can't tell the legislature that the only reason they don't want a fellow KY public school making more money is their own selfish desires.
The GA allows UK to tell the legislature "suuuure, we'll gladly sponsor them!"...while at the same time looking at their buddies UGA, UT, UF and USC and wildly shaking their head "NO!!" UK dutifully votes "Yes" but their buddies vote against the move and kill it while leaving UK blameless.
One more reason I would love FSU to the SEC: it would further expose UF's atrocious out of conference scheduling. "But we play FSU and Miami every year out of conference! We can't possibly travel out of state!" Well, now one of those is a conference game, chumps.
(08-16-2011 11:42 AM)10thMountain Wrote: [ -> ]Of course this is NOT official SEC policy, its just an informal arrangement (the definition of a gentleman's agreement) among the SEC East schools. I also have to believe that the key to all this is the home state school.
For example, while the agreement may be to not vote for little brother if big brother doesn't want them, if say Tennessee WANTED Memphis in the SEC (lolz) then the agreement would not be needed.
So, if Florida is cool with FSU coming in (and according to reports, they've been OK with the idea in the past) then the gentleman's agreement doesn't apply.
The whole point of this arrangement is to keep peace with state politicians.
For example, lets say Louisville thinks this would be a perfect opportunity for them to join the SEC and wants UK to sponsor them. UK doesn't want UL to horn in on their racket, but they also can't tell the legislature that the only reason they don't want a fellow KY public school making more money is their own selfish desires.
The GA allows UK to tell the legislature "suuuure, we'll gladly sponsor them!"...while at the same time looking at their buddies UGA, UT, UF and USC and wildly shaking their head "NO!!" UK dutifully votes "Yes" but their buddies vote against the move and kill it while leaving UK blameless.
Agreed. It's not that the SEC will NEVER invite someone from a current SEC state, but rather that the fellow home state school is going get a ton of say about the matter. If there's enough money involved from adding, say, FSU or Louisville or anyone else, that's going to alleviate things a bit.
I think FSU's brand is strong enough to get them the consideration. I think CU/GT/UL/UM are still nonstarters at this point because WVU is a better athletic and financial candidate than they are and is free to say yes with no political considerations. I think there is a VERY strong chance the SEC candidate will come from a pool of WVU, FSU, NCSU and VT, with WVU getting the nod if the first 3 say no.
I don't see NC State as an option, 10th. The SEC wants UNC out of North Carolina. If they can't get them, they'll bypass the rest of the state...
If that's the case, they may not even bother with the state of NC. UNC (along with Duke) is the heart and soul of the ACC and I don't see them ever leaving.
Personally, I don't think VT will want to leave either, they are sitting pretty atop the ACC and win it most years, not to mention the VA legislature had to flex muscles to get them in to begin with.
I think the SEC has to talk to these guys just because of their markets but I really and truly believe its a two way race between FSU and WVU.
(08-16-2011 01:25 PM)10thMountain Wrote: [ -> ]If that's the case, they may not even bother with the state of NC. UNC (along with Duke) is the heart and soul of the ACC and I don't see them ever leaving.
Personally, I don't think VT will want to leave either, they are sitting pretty atop the ACC and win it most years, not to mention the VA legislature had to flex muscles to get them in to begin with.
I think the SEC has to talk to these guys just because of their markets but I really and truly believe its a two way race between FSU and WVU.
Neither unc-ch nor Duke would leave the ACC for the $EC. Not going to happen. NCSU has long been rumored as a potential target for the $EC were they to expand, and rumblings around here have been that they would take a long look if the situation presented itself. They have the deepest of ACC ties, but have been and forever will be in the shadow of unc-ch (and to some degree Duke) - so a move to a stronger conference might be just the thing the "pack is looking for......who knows.....
If no agreement
1.Florida St. (no reason to look at UL, Clemson, GT)
2.WVU (all clear to do what they want)
3.NCSU (UNC, politics keep them?)
4.Missouri (vowed to stay in B12, so they say)
(08-16-2011 11:48 AM)justinslot Wrote: [ -> ]One more reason I would love FSU to the SEC: it would further expose UF's atrocious out of conference scheduling. "But we play FSU and Miami every year out of conference! We can't possibly travel out of state!" Well, now one of those is a conference game, chumps.
1) Florida does not play Miami every year. In fact it is far less common than you would expect.
2) Florida does not need a tough OOC schedule. Overall their schedule will be tougher just with SEC teams than many other AQ teams not in the SEC that schedule decent OOC games. Further the system does not reward tough games. It only helps if you have the same record as another team. An undefeated SEC is going to the NC game right now. In order for that to not happen you would need to have two other schools undefeated from major conferences and then MAYBE it could make a difference.
(08-16-2011 01:59 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2011 11:48 AM)justinslot Wrote: [ -> ]One more reason I would love FSU to the SEC: it would further expose UF's atrocious out of conference scheduling. "But we play FSU and Miami every year out of conference! We can't possibly travel out of state!" Well, now one of those is a conference game, chumps.
1) Florida does not play Miami every year. In fact it is far less common than you would expect.
2) Florida does not need a tough OOC schedule. Overall their schedule will be tougher just with SEC teams than many other AQ teams not in the SEC that schedule decent OOC games. Further the system does not reward tough games. It only helps if you have the same record as another team. An undefeated SEC is going to the NC game right now. In order for that to not happen you would need to have two other schools undefeated from major conferences and then MAYBE it could make a difference.
Oh I know they don't HAVE to but this season Alabama's playing at State College and LSU is visiting Morgantown and the Gators haven't been anywhere since they lost to Syracuse in (I think) the 90s. They're the only major SEC program that refuses to leave their state, right?
(08-16-2011 01:59 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2011 11:48 AM)justinslot Wrote: [ -> ]One more reason I would love FSU to the SEC: it would further expose UF's atrocious out of conference scheduling. "But we play FSU and Miami every year out of conference! We can't possibly travel out of state!" Well, now one of those is a conference game, chumps.
1) Florida does not play Miami every year. In fact it is far less common than you would expect.
2) Florida does not need a tough OOC schedule. Overall their schedule will be tougher just with SEC teams than many other AQ teams not in the SEC that schedule decent OOC games. Further the system does not reward tough games. It only helps if you have the same record as another team. An undefeated SEC is going to the NC game right now. In order for that to not happen you would need to have two other schools undefeated from major conferences and then MAYBE it could make a difference.
That's a BS and UF apologist reply.
Other SEC teams have no problem scheduling away OOC games. Only
This year LSU plays @ Oregon, Alabama @ Penn State, Auburn @ Clemson.
Only Florida year in and out has the "Out conference by itself is tough enough," translated - "we're too scared" mentality.
(08-16-2011 02:09 PM)dogma Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2011 01:59 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2011 11:48 AM)justinslot Wrote: [ -> ]One more reason I would love FSU to the SEC: it would further expose UF's atrocious out of conference scheduling. "But we play FSU and Miami every year out of conference! We can't possibly travel out of state!" Well, now one of those is a conference game, chumps.
1) Florida does not play Miami every year. In fact it is far less common than you would expect.
2) Florida does not need a tough OOC schedule. Overall their schedule will be tougher just with SEC teams than many other AQ teams not in the SEC that schedule decent OOC games. Further the system does not reward tough games. It only helps if you have the same record as another team. An undefeated SEC is going to the NC game right now. In order for that to not happen you would need to have two other schools undefeated from major conferences and then MAYBE it could make a difference.
That's a BS and UF apologist reply.
Other SEC teams have no problem scheduling away OOC games. Only
This year LSU plays @ Oregon, Alabama @ Penn State, Auburn @ Clemson.
Only Florida year in and out has the "Out conference by itself is tough enough," translated - "we're too scared" mentality.
I'm guessing that includes a feeling of not needing to regularly play USF?
(08-16-2011 02:09 PM)dogma Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2011 01:59 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2011 11:48 AM)justinslot Wrote: [ -> ]One more reason I would love FSU to the SEC: it would further expose UF's atrocious out of conference scheduling. "But we play FSU and Miami every year out of conference! We can't possibly travel out of state!" Well, now one of those is a conference game, chumps.
1) Florida does not play Miami every year. In fact it is far less common than you would expect.
2) Florida does not need a tough OOC schedule. Overall their schedule will be tougher just with SEC teams than many other AQ teams not in the SEC that schedule decent OOC games. Further the system does not reward tough games. It only helps if you have the same record as another team. An undefeated SEC is going to the NC game right now. In order for that to not happen you would need to have two other schools undefeated from major conferences and then MAYBE it could make a difference.
That's a BS and UF apologist reply.
Other SEC teams have no problem scheduling away OOC games. Only
This year LSU plays @ Oregon, Alabama @ Penn State, Auburn @ Clemson.
Only Florida year in and out has the "Out conference by itself is tough enough," translated - "we're too scared" mentality.
No they choose to leave. Many of those teams don't have to that is a big difference. Don't complain to me that an 8-5 team from the SEC that never played anybody out of state for their OOC schedule was still higher ranked than the champion of the BE. Maybe if playing through the SEC wasn't good enough to get where they want to go then you would see them play out more often but sadly for you they don't need to go for those teams. Now do I think they should go play some other team OOC worth something sure but they don't need to do it.