06-04-2011, 10:22 PM
06-04-2011, 10:32 PM
I saw a Villanova guy posting this week. Haven't seen any 'Cats on here before. Welcome your comments.
06-04-2011, 10:42 PM
No use to this thread.
06-04-2011, 11:38 PM
they're not Temple?
06-05-2011, 03:37 AM
(06-04-2011 11:38 PM)Theodoresdaddy Wrote: [ -> ]they're not marshall
:ncaabbs:
06-05-2011, 07:33 AM
Does Nova have any fans on this board to pimp this thread?
06-05-2011, 07:34 AM
We can play here if you really want us to :domokun:
![[Image: PPL_Park.jpg]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6f/PPL_Park.jpg)
06-05-2011, 10:28 AM
Full disclosure - I have been on this board for maybe 9 months and have seen 3, maybe 4 VU posters so this will probably be it, although I do anticipate venomus retorts from Dr. Isaly Von Yinzer (BE does not need a small, tiny, infinitesimal Catholic school in a pro market town) and the Gator-lover from NOLA (basically the same, except adding that BE to South makes the most sense):
1. Stadium issue can be dealt with - (i) get letter of intent from Delaware County (owner) with consent of primary tenant (Union) for 10-15 year lease commencing 2012 with expansion to 30,000 by 2015 (initial BE season); and (ii) get letter of intent with (a) Phillies for NOV games in CBP (if architects confirm CFB is possible there) (articles in Philly papers this week about Phils being out of debt service compliance with MLB, i.e., searching for new revenue streams); or (b) Penn for NOV games at FF, including VU sharing cost of "real" seats on first level, particularly between the 20s, upgrades to concession areas and lavatories, and solution for flagging of end zones and center of field on VU game days. VU AD/BOT and donors are working these avenues now.
2. Adding VU is the path of least resistance, which is the BE way and no evidence has yet been mustered that a FB-only split is worth more money to the FB-only teams + any combo of the Usual Suspects. Obviously, if there is there is more money in it for FB teams, league splits. If it is not the case, not adding another all sports/BB cut is valuable and would be approved by required BE members. Plus, there is already some (albeit in places very tepid) support within BE for this so long as stadium issue is fixed.
3. Accepting all the cogent counter-arguments to same (no Philly CFB market, pro sports town, small student body, small alumni base, FCS upgrade without tradition), there are still plenty of TV and BE people who see value in having BE FB team in Philadelphia.
4. VU factors prominently in BE's marketing of its BB product, which, for the foreseeable future, remains the more valuable of its sports properties, adding VU to BE FB cements that relationship.
5. VU to BE FB means one less of the Seven Dwarfs (as in ND and the . . .). A few years of VU making $15MM/yr with BE FB teams, and SHU's penurious ways will grate, thus fragmenting/weakening the BB-only block.
6. I would love it! I grew up VU for BB and PSU for FB. Still love PSU but haven't been to Happy Valley since the late 1990's, as its a 4-hour drive and impossible to get a room with 50 miles of campus on game day except 1 year in advance. It would be great to have real CFB close to home (and, yes, JHG I have been to Temple games, admittedly only when they are playing VU or PSU, and those game are fine, but all due respect to TU, they are not my team).
I am an Eagles season ticketholder and even before the strike have become disenchanted with the advent of at least half of the games being SUN night, MON night, etc. and games flexing to 4:15 on a SUN. SAT CFB would be much more enjoyable schedule-wise.
Plus, even if VU upgrade, there will rarely if ever be a conflict in following both VU and PSU (full disclosure, if in some distant future, VU and PSU meet in a bowl, I'll wear VU gear).
1. Stadium issue can be dealt with - (i) get letter of intent from Delaware County (owner) with consent of primary tenant (Union) for 10-15 year lease commencing 2012 with expansion to 30,000 by 2015 (initial BE season); and (ii) get letter of intent with (a) Phillies for NOV games in CBP (if architects confirm CFB is possible there) (articles in Philly papers this week about Phils being out of debt service compliance with MLB, i.e., searching for new revenue streams); or (b) Penn for NOV games at FF, including VU sharing cost of "real" seats on first level, particularly between the 20s, upgrades to concession areas and lavatories, and solution for flagging of end zones and center of field on VU game days. VU AD/BOT and donors are working these avenues now.
2. Adding VU is the path of least resistance, which is the BE way and no evidence has yet been mustered that a FB-only split is worth more money to the FB-only teams + any combo of the Usual Suspects. Obviously, if there is there is more money in it for FB teams, league splits. If it is not the case, not adding another all sports/BB cut is valuable and would be approved by required BE members. Plus, there is already some (albeit in places very tepid) support within BE for this so long as stadium issue is fixed.
3. Accepting all the cogent counter-arguments to same (no Philly CFB market, pro sports town, small student body, small alumni base, FCS upgrade without tradition), there are still plenty of TV and BE people who see value in having BE FB team in Philadelphia.
4. VU factors prominently in BE's marketing of its BB product, which, for the foreseeable future, remains the more valuable of its sports properties, adding VU to BE FB cements that relationship.
5. VU to BE FB means one less of the Seven Dwarfs (as in ND and the . . .). A few years of VU making $15MM/yr with BE FB teams, and SHU's penurious ways will grate, thus fragmenting/weakening the BB-only block.
6. I would love it! I grew up VU for BB and PSU for FB. Still love PSU but haven't been to Happy Valley since the late 1990's, as its a 4-hour drive and impossible to get a room with 50 miles of campus on game day except 1 year in advance. It would be great to have real CFB close to home (and, yes, JHG I have been to Temple games, admittedly only when they are playing VU or PSU, and those game are fine, but all due respect to TU, they are not my team).
I am an Eagles season ticketholder and even before the strike have become disenchanted with the advent of at least half of the games being SUN night, MON night, etc. and games flexing to 4:15 on a SUN. SAT CFB would be much more enjoyable schedule-wise.
Plus, even if VU upgrade, there will rarely if ever be a conflict in following both VU and PSU (full disclosure, if in some distant future, VU and PSU meet in a bowl, I'll wear VU gear).
06-05-2011, 02:15 PM
(06-05-2011 10:28 AM)P. ONeill Wrote: [ -> ]Full disclosure - I have been on this board for maybe 9 months and have seen 3, maybe 4 VU posters so this will probably be it, although I do anticipate venomus retorts from Dr. Isaly Von Yinzer (BE does not need a small, tiny, infinitesimal Catholic school in a pro market town) and the Gator-lover from NOLA (basically the same, except adding that BE to South makes the most sense):
1. Stadium issue can be dealt with - (i) get letter of intent from Delaware County (owner) with consent of primary tenant (Union) for 10-15 year lease commencing 2012 with expansion to 30,000 by 2015 (initial BE season); and (ii) get letter of intent with (a) Phillies for NOV games in CBP (if architects confirm CFB is possible there) (articles in Philly papers this week about Phils being out of debt service compliance with MLB, i.e., searching for new revenue streams); or (b) Penn for NOV games at FF, including VU sharing cost of "real" seats on first level, particularly between the 20s, upgrades to concession areas and lavatories, and solution for flagging of end zones and center of field on VU game days. VU AD/BOT and donors are working these avenues now.
2. Adding VU is the path of least resistance, which is the BE way and no evidence has yet been mustered that a FB-only split is worth more money to the FB-only teams + any combo of the Usual Suspects. Obviously, if there is there is more money in it for FB teams, league splits. If it is not the case, not adding another all sports/BB cut is valuable and would be approved by required BE members. Plus, there is already some (albeit in places very tepid) support within BE for this so long as stadium issue is fixed.
3. Accepting all the cogent counter-arguments to same (no Philly CFB market, pro sports town, small student body, small alumni base, FCS upgrade without tradition), there are still plenty of TV and BE people who see value in having BE FB team in Philadelphia.
4. VU factors prominently in BE's marketing of its BB product, which, for the foreseeable future, remains the more valuable of its sports properties, adding VU to BE FB cements that relationship.
5. VU to BE FB means one less of the Seven Dwarfs (as in ND and the . . .). A few years of VU making $15MM/yr with BE FB teams, and SHU's penurious ways will grate, thus fragmenting/weakening the BB-only block.
6. I would love it! I grew up VU for BB and PSU for FB. Still love PSU but haven't been to Happy Valley since the late 1990's, as its a 4-hour drive and impossible to get a room with 50 miles of campus on game day except 1 year in advance. It would be great to have real CFB close to home (and, yes, JHG I have been to Temple games, admittedly only when they are playing VU or PSU, and those game are fine, but all due respect to TU, they are not my team).
I am an Eagles season ticketholder and even before the strike have become disenchanted with the advent of at least half of the games being SUN night, MON night, etc. and games flexing to 4:15 on a SUN. SAT CFB would be much more enjoyable schedule-wise.
Plus, even if VU upgrade, there will rarely if ever be a conflict in following both VU and PSU (full disclosure, if in some distant future, VU and PSU meet in a bowl, I'll wear VU gear).
Extremely well said. The anti-Nova crowd does proclaim the concerns, and we're all aware of them. And yes, they are very legitimate concerns, as has every candidate. But there is a chance Nova could work very well for their purpose. That purpose is to gain a legitimate tenth member and elimiate a costly OOC game and not further subdivide the BB money. It is obviously not to add a football powerhouse, but frankly there is no other TCU out there to add. Sure, Nova would take a few years to compete, but they are far from a long-shot FCS move-up. Last season Nova only lost to Temple by a TD, and Temple beat the BE champion. Previous season Nova beat Temple. Recently Nova was FCS champion and last season final four. They have a good program. Yes, if it was pure expansion, there are some CUSA schools who currently have somewhat better FB programs. Nova however would not be pure expansion, it is an upgrade of an existing founding member. Admitedly, the first plan appears to have been poorly developed. The BE membership will decide if they want to give Nova a second chance, and this will hinge largely on politics. Money, fan support, stadium issues... that's for Nova and the BE to work out and decide upon. I have seen many Nova fans post on their boards that they have no real interest in seeing FCS opponents, but are pretty excited about BCS football. I have no idea what kind of attendance numbers that would translate to. Some of this logic does change if a split happens, as some of these points refer to current BE politics. Unfortunately, looks like it will be another year before we see how the dust settles on expansion.
06-05-2011, 03:06 PM
(06-05-2011 10:28 AM)P. ONeill Wrote: [ -> ]It would be great to have real CFB close to home (and, yes, JHG I have been to Temple games, admittedly only when they are playing VU or PSU, and those game are fine, but all due respect to TU, they are not my team).
Someone should tell our players they dont play 'real' college football. I dont think we get Addazio, Heater, and Loeffler because we play 'fake' football. You're a good poster, but you're part of the problem in Philadelphia, affiliation aside.
06-05-2011, 03:49 PM
I think people need to ask themselves the following question:
Is our central motivation in expansion to improve the football side of our league or is it to have a minimally negative impact on the basketball side of the league?
As a follow up question, if the answer to the first question is the latter choice (which is a perfectly legitimate POV), then why are we expanding at all? What is the sense in expanding if it is going to hurt either side of the league (as many feel Villanova would in football and others believe that ECU and UCF would in basketball)?
No malice, no ill will, no venom; just good old fashioned common sense.
Personally, my opinion is this: if our choice comes down to adding Villavova or adding nobody, then until the Wildcat brass can come up with a better plan than the COMPLETE NONSENSE they have presented thus far (both formally and informally), then my choice is to stay put and ride out the storm until somebody - including possibly Villanova - makes themselves too attractive to ignore - as TCU and Louisville have already done.
As things stand, Villanova's formal proposal was to play in an 18.5K seat soccer stadium and their revised plan is reportedly to play in a few games in that soccer stadium, a few games in a baseball stadium, and perhaps a few games in a 115 year-old 1-AA stadium. I'm sorry if this hurts people's feelings but NO EFFING WAY and it is not even close! We might as well officially withdraw from the BCS on the spot because nothing would scream "small time" quite like adding a school whose LONG TERM plan appears to be to play a smattering of games in a bunch of venues around the greater Philadelphia area. I'm sorry but that is an objectionable short term plan and it is an absolutely unacceptable long term plan.
I'll tell you what, you can wear your Villanova shirt to watch them play Delaware, James Madison and other teams of comparable financial commitment. And if the Big East's football schools back down and accept this ludicrous plan then I will have absolutely no sympathy whatsever for them when the fans and media of the legitimate BCS leagues absolutely excoriate the league for being so backwards and provincial. Hell, I might even join in the chorus demanding that we lose our BCS bid.
Is our central motivation in expansion to improve the football side of our league or is it to have a minimally negative impact on the basketball side of the league?
As a follow up question, if the answer to the first question is the latter choice (which is a perfectly legitimate POV), then why are we expanding at all? What is the sense in expanding if it is going to hurt either side of the league (as many feel Villanova would in football and others believe that ECU and UCF would in basketball)?
No malice, no ill will, no venom; just good old fashioned common sense.
Personally, my opinion is this: if our choice comes down to adding Villavova or adding nobody, then until the Wildcat brass can come up with a better plan than the COMPLETE NONSENSE they have presented thus far (both formally and informally), then my choice is to stay put and ride out the storm until somebody - including possibly Villanova - makes themselves too attractive to ignore - as TCU and Louisville have already done.
As things stand, Villanova's formal proposal was to play in an 18.5K seat soccer stadium and their revised plan is reportedly to play in a few games in that soccer stadium, a few games in a baseball stadium, and perhaps a few games in a 115 year-old 1-AA stadium. I'm sorry if this hurts people's feelings but NO EFFING WAY and it is not even close! We might as well officially withdraw from the BCS on the spot because nothing would scream "small time" quite like adding a school whose LONG TERM plan appears to be to play a smattering of games in a bunch of venues around the greater Philadelphia area. I'm sorry but that is an objectionable short term plan and it is an absolutely unacceptable long term plan.
I'll tell you what, you can wear your Villanova shirt to watch them play Delaware, James Madison and other teams of comparable financial commitment. And if the Big East's football schools back down and accept this ludicrous plan then I will have absolutely no sympathy whatsever for them when the fans and media of the legitimate BCS leagues absolutely excoriate the league for being so backwards and provincial. Hell, I might even join in the chorus demanding that we lose our BCS bid.
06-05-2011, 04:28 PM
06-05-2011, 04:35 PM
a 30K seat stadium is not good enough for a BCS conference team; and as for the central motivation to improve the football side of our league or is it to have a minimally negative impact on the basketball side of the league-it depends on who you ask
a football fan would say to improve and a basketball fan would say to minimize any negative impact; that's the problem with the BE conference; you have two different fan bases and their schools fighting for the soul (not trying to be melodramatic) of the conference
the sooner the football schools split from the basketball schools the better
a football fan would say to improve and a basketball fan would say to minimize any negative impact; that's the problem with the BE conference; you have two different fan bases and their schools fighting for the soul (not trying to be melodramatic) of the conference
the sooner the football schools split from the basketball schools the better
06-05-2011, 05:11 PM
(06-05-2011 04:35 PM)Theodoresdaddy Wrote: [ -> ]the sooner the football schools split from the basketball schools the better
In which case, you are aware Temple is almost a guarantee to be added, right?
06-05-2011, 08:02 PM
(06-05-2011 10:28 AM)P. ONeill Wrote: [ -> ]Full disclosure - I have been on this board for maybe 9 months and have seen 3, maybe 4 VU posters so this will probably be it, although I do anticipate venomus retorts from Dr. Isaly Von Yinzer (BE does not need a small, tiny, infinitesimal Catholic school in a pro market town) and the Gator-lover from NOLA (basically the same, except adding that BE to South makes the most sense):
1. Stadium issue can be dealt with - (i) get letter of intent from Delaware County (owner) with consent of primary tenant (Union) for 10-15 year lease commencing 2012 with expansion to 30,000 by 2015 (initial BE season); and (ii) get letter of intent with (a) Phillies for NOV games in CBP (if architects confirm CFB is possible there) (articles in Philly papers this week about Phils being out of debt service compliance with MLB, i.e., searching for new revenue streams); or (b) Penn for NOV games at FF, including VU sharing cost of "real" seats on first level, particularly between the 20s, upgrades to concession areas and lavatories, and solution for flagging of end zones and center of field on VU game days. VU AD/BOT and donors are working these avenues now.
1. If Nova was serious and had any clue about big time football, this would have all been all worked out prior to the April debacle.
06-05-2011, 08:14 PM
(06-05-2011 04:28 PM)Theodoresdaddy Wrote: [ -> ](06-05-2011 03:37 AM)JHG722 Wrote: [ -> ](06-04-2011 11:38 PM)Theodoresdaddy Wrote: [ -> ]they're not marshall
:ncaabbs:
didn't Marshall do a lot better in the MAC than Temple has?
Yes, but Marshall was loaded with a bunch of non-qualifiers and dubious charters and the success was short lived. The flash in the pan got them a C-USA invite. Then Marshall promptly fell on its face. Temple on the other hand, it taking the time ti build up its program the right way. So when an invite from a better conference comes along, TU will be able to remain competitive when it moves up.
06-05-2011, 11:29 PM
(06-05-2011 08:14 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote: [ -> ](06-05-2011 04:28 PM)Theodoresdaddy Wrote: [ -> ](06-05-2011 03:37 AM)JHG722 Wrote: [ -> ](06-04-2011 11:38 PM)Theodoresdaddy Wrote: [ -> ]they're not marshall
:ncaabbs:
didn't Marshall do a lot better in the MAC than Temple has?
Yes, but Marshall was loaded with a bunch of non-qualifiers and dubious charters and the success was short lived. The flash in the pan got them a C-USA invite. Then Marshall promptly fell on its face. Temple on the other hand, it taking the time ti build up its program the right way. So when an invite from a better conference comes along, TU will be able to remain competitive when it moves up.
06-06-2011, 06:57 AM
Good, then let's let Temple move up to C-USA and see how they do there for 5-10 years? If in that period the Owls have made themselves indespensible then let's take them. Or perhaps Villanova will have come up with a legitimate stadium plan by then and we could take them? Or UCF and/or ECU could become the next TCU and we could take them?
The Big East needs to wait this out and let the true candidates sort out themselves. The money is clearly on the table so let the best program win.
The Big East needs to wait this out and let the true candidates sort out themselves. The money is clearly on the table so let the best program win.
06-06-2011, 07:06 AM
All things Villanova turned into All things Temple.
Oy vey...
Oy vey...
06-06-2011, 09:18 AM
That's because no one started a "All Things Temple" thread. And frankly this is not surprising at all as the chance of a BCS team in Philly is a zero sum game between VU and TU. Currently, TU is FBS and has a BCS stadium. VU is is a BCS conference but is FCS and has no BCS stadium. Only one of them will end up in BCS CFB.
And Philly being Philly we're all intertwined family-wise (i.e., I have loved ones and dear friends who are Temple people and I bet many Temple people have the same issue in reverse - in fact, you really have to feel for Mr. Coyer - son is soph QB on TU FB and twin daughters just accepted scholarlships to play college BB at Villanova).
Anyway it will likely be another year of uncertainty on this issue.
And Philly being Philly we're all intertwined family-wise (i.e., I have loved ones and dear friends who are Temple people and I bet many Temple people have the same issue in reverse - in fact, you really have to feel for Mr. Coyer - son is soph QB on TU FB and twin daughters just accepted scholarlships to play college BB at Villanova).
Anyway it will likely be another year of uncertainty on this issue.