UCF seems to have the edge on facilities, student spirit and campus location.
I understand where USF is coming from...they don't want the competition.
On the positive side for USF they would have a built in archrival. The other BE schools gotta love the idea of guaranteeing FL recruits a game in FL every year. The downside is FL recruiting will have one more BCS mouth to feed if UCF comes in.
USF isn't the issue here I don't know why people keep blaming them. Here's a question though, say that Buffalo has made all of the same improvements as UCF would Syracuse welcome them with open arms?
Yes, USF fears UCF just like UK feanrs UL and West Virginia fears Marshall.
And I know this thread is just inviting UCF fans to jump on USF so I will ask you this, if you believe and trust your Orlando reporters and their sources and their sources say that everyone, including USF, is on board why is everyone worried about USF fans' opinions?
(01-03-2011 02:26 PM)CatsClaw Wrote: [ -> ]USF isn't the issue here I don't know why people keep blaming them. Here's a question though, say that Buffalo has made all of the same improvements as UCF would Syracuse welcome them with open arms?
Yeah Orlando vs Buffalo, a really accurate comparison
This probably won't end well but look at the enrollment skyrocketing at UCF even past UF despite increased entrance requirements. I advise any Cuse and other Big East fan to take a tour of UCF's campus if they happen to be in Orlando and you could see why there is some anti UCF sentiment. There is a 'wow I didn't know this was here' factor. Also there is a great environment ON CAMPUS vs a municipal city feel, I would love for a Rutgers, Louisville, etc fan to see it for themselves in 2012
i love how USF is blamed for UCiF not being admitted into the big East.
None of us! I repeat NONE OF US knows what is going on in the Providence headquarters of the Commissioner.
I guess that USF is easy to blame, especially for the UN-informed!
Afraid?? Seems like a word a UCF fan would use?
Keep in mind USF is the younger program. UCF came into Division I-A football in 1996 and had immediate success with Dante Culpepper as QB. But they were an independant.
USF started I-A football in 2001. Leavitt was basically the one who did not want to play UCF. It may have been a sound stategy in that UCF was clearly ahead of USF early on. UCF wanted to play USF when we were still I-AA, Leavitt did not want to set up a pecking order in the minds of recruits so he continued to beg off the series. He also held a personal grudge against UCF because they did not hire him as an assistant coach a while back.
USF had one advantage in that they had an in to the C-USA conference since they already played basketball and other sports there. USM and a few other schools really did not want USF in....but USF got the invite but had to play 2 seasons as an independant. Then came the BE/ACC raid and USF "lucked" into an invite basically because they were a Florida school and had a decent showing in their 1st season of CUSA, finished tied for 3rd at 7-4.
After Culpepper left, UCF did not grow as many in the fanbase expected and they realized how bad it was to be an independant in I-A football. The scrambled and got into the MAC but that never really fit. Also, the MAC was viewed as a step down from CUSA.
So really USF, lucked into a better situation than UCF, because they were associated with CUSA...as opposed to the A-Sun which does not play I-A football. Our coach clearly had a bias against UCF....but now that he is gone....I think you will see some of the back and forth pass.
I think the real problem is UCF was around longer and was clearly ahead of USF. Then USF gets a better deal with a BE invite and for all intents and purposes did nothing to earn it.....well that creates some jealousy....rightfully so.
I think USF would be just fine if UCF were to join an AQ conference but I also understand....if you can make your direct opponents weaker.....well you would just assume they stay weaker. I would expect the exact same attitude from UCF fan if the roles were reversed.
I would make the comparison similiar to Baylor not wanting TCU in the Big 12. Or Utah not wanting BYU in the Pac-10. Many of us know that USF will not have the final say on expansion, but you can tell they are not exactly excited about it either.
It is hard to make other comparisons because UCF is the 2nd largest school in the nation with an enrollment of 56,000. Marshall, Buffalo, etc don't even begin to compare.
(01-03-2011 02:47 PM)The Brown Bull Wrote: [ -> ]Afraid?? Seems like a word a UCF fan would use?
Keep in mind USF is the younger program. UCF came into Division I-A football in 1996 and had immediate success with Dante Culpepper as QB. But they were an independant.
USF started I-A football in 2001. Leavitt was basically the one who did not want to play UCF. It may have been a sound stategy in that UCF was clearly ahead of USF early on. UCF wanted to play USF when we were still I-AA, Leavitt did not want to set up a pecking order in the minds of recruits so he continued to beg off the series. He also held a personal grudge against UCF because they did not hire him as an assistant coach a while back.
USF had one advantage in that they had an in to the C-USA conference since they already played basketball and other sports there. USM and a few other schools really did not want USF in....but USF got the invite but had to play 2 seasons as an independant. Then came the BE/ACC raid and USF "lucked" into an invite basically because they were a Florida school and had a decent showing in their 1st season of CUSA, finished tied for 3rd at 7-4.
After Culpepper left, UCF did not grow as many in the fanbase expected and they realized how bad it was to be an independant in I-A football. The scrambled and got into the MAC but that never really fit. Also, the MAC was viewed as a step down from CUSA.
So really USF, lucked into a better situation than UCF, because they were associated with CUSA...as opposed to the A-Sun which does not play I-A football. Our coach clearly had a bias against UCF....but now that he is gone....I think you will see some of the back and forth pass.
I think the real problem is UCF was around longer and was clearly ahead of USF. Then USF gets a better deal with a BE invite and for all intents and purposes did nothing to earn it.....well that creates some jealousy....rightfully so.
I think USF would be just fine if UCF were to join an AQ conference but I also understand....if you can make your direct opponents weaker.....well you would just assume they stay weaker. I would expect the exact same attitude from UCF fan if the roles were reversed.
That's fairly accurate. I would throw in that UCF was playing in a garage for bb which kept them out of CUSA which was a very respectable bb league. If UCF had just rented the Magic arena things may have been very different.
(01-03-2011 02:43 PM)TyBull Wrote: [ -> ]i love how USF is blamed for UCiF not being admitted into the big East.
None of us! I repeat NONE OF US knows what is going on in the Providence headquarters of the Commissioner.
I guess that USF is easy to blame, especially for the UN-informed!
Srsly. Like I said in another thread, I'd love to play UCF every year. They don't need to be in the Big East for that to happen, but if they are then it would be just that much more fun.
I think the Big East will do what is best for the Big East. UCF has positioned itself well and had the perfect season at the perfect time. If only adding one, from the CUSA, who knows that they will do? Houston has a bigger market, is working on upgrades, and helps further establish roots in Texas (remember, Big East has been in Florida much much longer than Texas). Or will Big East view the addition of UCF as something that would cannabalize its investment in USF? It is a business, right? On one hand they have a team that has always represented the league well in OOC play and bordering your market. Do you think they want to break new ground in Texas? Or let USF keep its advantage over a market competitor?
WHO KNOWS? I don't see nearly as much informed opinion as I saw on Killer Frogs during this process, so not sure that I think an invite is out there. We will find out. TCU got its nod after last conference game, don't know why they would be waiting if the brand is that valuable to the conference.
That being said, afraid? Nope. UCF every year is one more win. USF would have beaten you last year, they would have beaten UCF this year, and they would beat you next year as well.
Yes they are afraid, the same as NC Sux is afraid of ECU ever getting in an AQ league. No AQ team wants to see a non-AQ team in their area move up because they lose the one big advantage they have over them.
(01-03-2011 02:26 PM)CatsClaw Wrote: [ -> ]Here's a question though, say that Buffalo has made all of the same improvements as UCF would Syracuse welcome them with open arms?
The next person to mention Buffalo will be publicly flogged and ridiculed...
(01-03-2011 02:47 PM)The Brown Bull Wrote: [ -> ]Afraid?? Seems like a word a UCF fan would use?
Keep in mind USF is the younger program. UCF came into Division I-A football in 1996 and had immediate success with Dante Culpepper as QB. But they were an independant.
USF started I-A football in 2001. Leavitt was basically the one who did not want to play UCF. It may have been a sound stategy in that UCF was clearly ahead of USF early on. UCF wanted to play USF when we were still I-AA, Leavitt did not want to set up a pecking order in the minds of recruits so he continued to beg off the series. He also held a personal grudge against UCF because they did not hire him as an assistant coach a while back.
USF had one advantage in that they had an in to the C-USA conference since they already played basketball and other sports there. USM and a few other schools really did not want USF in....but USF got the invite but had to play 2 seasons as an independant. Then came the BE/ACC raid and USF "lucked" into an invite basically because they were a Florida school and had a decent showing in their 1st season of CUSA, finished tied for 3rd at 7-4.
After Culpepper left, UCF did not grow as many in the fanbase expected and they realized how bad it was to be an independant in I-A football. The scrambled and got into the MAC but that never really fit. Also, the MAC was viewed as a step down from CUSA.
So really USF, lucked into a better situation than UCF, because they were associated with CUSA...as opposed to the A-Sun which does not play I-A football. Our coach clearly had a bias against UCF....but now that he is gone....I think you will see some of the back and forth pass.
I think the real problem is UCF was around longer and was clearly ahead of USF. Then USF gets a better deal with a BE invite and for all intents and purposes did nothing to earn it.....well that creates some jealousy....rightfully so.
I think USF would be just fine if UCF were to join an AQ conference but I also understand....if you can make your direct opponents weaker.....well you would just assume they stay weaker. I would expect the exact same attitude from UCF fan if the roles were reversed.
Holy crap! A USF fan who actually knows where they came from!
You just earned a lot of respect in my book Brown Bull. It is amazing how much arrogance some of your peers have (cough... Bullsbeast).
I always think about it as being the oldest brother who who grew up working the farm, little brother (USF) was too young and did nothing, yet dad had a soft spot for little brother and left him the farm when he died. That's how it feels.
I seriously have no problems with the fact that USF made some good buisness moves and put themselves in a better position than us, but for god sakes have some humility. The LAST group of fans who should be taking a "holier than thou" stance on expansion candidates or saying that UCF isn't worthy(!) is USF. They should just be happy and grateful to be where they are.
I doubt many outsiders know the differences in history between these two programs, and I am sure many think USF's is older with a more established fan base and tradition, which is almost exactly opposite the truth...
Wait...so let me get this straight:
No one is actively campaigning for schools that are in close geographic area and would be in direct competition with them on an equal playing field??????
Seriously, all things being equal, no one wants their direct competition elevated to compete on their level because it makes the zero sum game even harder.
USF has always been afraid of UCF.
So, don't you guys think that having a Hall of Fame defensive lineman speaking on behalf of USF helped? Who was going to say no to Leroy Selman?
(01-03-2011 03:24 PM)bitcruncher Wrote: [ -> ] (01-03-2011 02:26 PM)CatsClaw Wrote: [ -> ]Here's a question though, say that Buffalo has made all of the same improvements as UCF would Syracuse welcome them with open arms?
The next person to mention Buffalo will be publicly flogged and ridiculed...
Buffalo..bring it!
Cats is right, it's a logical comparison if based on proximity and institutional commonality. Buffalo has all of the attributes of a typical AQ member, except athletically (due to SUNY Central actions 40 years ago). Our stadium is ~140 miles from SU, while Tampa is under 90 miles from UCF.
If we did have everything in order here would SU vote 'Y'? UB would have alies in the other BE AAU members, and SUNY prez Zimpher would be key as well as she made the push to get Cincy into the BE when she was president there. But, how does SU view UB? We aren't, and have never been, rivals. We've beaten SU in the past but we never played each other during the 20th century, even though we were both private schools playing on the same level. SU has little interest in the Buffalo market since there are only ~2500 SU students and alums from here. CNY and NYC are SU's student and alum strongholds, and SU's 'NY's College Team' campaign targeted New York the city, not the State. Also, Buffalo does not produce so many FBS recruits that SU and UB would battle for. IMO SU would not vote 'No' due to market overlap or recruiting comcerns, but for reasons of distrust on increased revenues from inviting UB.
UCF and USF are slightly closer in proximity, have more institutional commonality as state schools, and are battling for key recruits within an area with many strong recruits daily. Are those strong factors for USF voting 'No', or would USF agree that the potential for revenue generation outweigh the negatives?
(01-03-2011 04:19 PM)goodknightfl Wrote: [ -> ]USF has always been afraid of UCF.
In the only sport that matters:
USF 4
UCF 0
Please explain why we are "afraid of UCF".
Scoreboard
I personally don't care if UCF is in or out as a Big east school.
I don't "hate" or "fear" UCF.
I would just rather have Notre Shame, Penn State, Maryland or a couple of the Big 12 schools. Barring them UCF would be fine......
To make a "blanket" statement that USF frear ucif is just retarded.
JMHO
Ty
Remember this thread was started by a Syracuse guy...not a UCF guy. That being said...I don't think USF is afraid. Although...it's already tough for the fans outside of Florida to decipher who is who. To this day...we can't watch any of our games on TV without a neutral announcer slipping and sliding over our names.
(01-03-2011 04:26 PM)RecoveringHillbilly Wrote: [ -> ] (01-03-2011 03:24 PM)bitcruncher Wrote: [ -> ] (01-03-2011 02:26 PM)CatsClaw Wrote: [ -> ]Here's a question though, say that Buffalo has made all of the same improvements as UCF would Syracuse welcome them with open arms?
The next person to mention Buffalo will be publicly flogged and ridiculed...
Buffalo..bring it!
:noisycricket: