It's been a few days but I am still in shock about the 34-32 Toledo loss. First, I congratulate FIU for making the plays they needed too when they needed and for taking advantage of opportunities when they arose. Kudos to the Panthers for their victory.
Now back to Toledo. Between the turnovers, the penalties and for much of the second half just a lack of motivation, I don't understand how a team that should have won the game by 10-14 points managed to grab defeat from the jaws of victory. Falling to 1-3 in Motor City/Little Caesars Pizza Bowls is just not satisfactory for a proud Rocket football program.
I commend the job the current coaching staff has done since taking over Tom Amstutz’s mess two years ago but it certainly seemed like the FIU coaches were able to adjust their game plans in the second half while Toledo coaches and players all fell into a lethargic abyss.
As a MAC fan it really gripes me knowing that we continue to be putrid in post season play for the past four seasons. Hopefully Miami can win to get us back to 2-2.
Belated congratulations to NIU for getting it done in Boise against a very good Fresno State team. You did the MAC proud for one bowl game this season - thank you !!
I have tried to be the voice of reason in the vast rocket echo chamber the last several weeks as the majority of the faithful have blindly assumed that the program is totally turned around and that Beckman is the second coming, etc.
Sorry, but I think the bowl loss just proves that the program is not where you all think it is just yet. Bottom line, you beat one "good" team this year in Ohio U. who got destroyed in their bowl by a team that BG almost beat.
Granted, I think it is DEFINITELY moving in the right direction, but these things just don't turn around over night.
Knowing that Toledo returns something like 18 of 22 starters is enough to make me nervous (although WMU returns almost as many, I believe).
(12-29-2010 05:55 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote: [ -> ]Knowing that Toledo returns something like 18 of 22 starters is enough to make me nervous (although WMU returns almost as many, I believe).
WMU has a good group coming back from a team that seemed to underachieve.
UT's defeat in the Pizza Pizza Bowl is still pissing me off too. And is a signal that Beckman has some learning to do as a HC still.
Only worry is, that if he wins every game against teams with losing records the Rockets would be 10-3 and not 8-5 if for example next season shapes up in a same way as this one. And if thats the case he could be the next coach snatched up by the BCS. Although I'm not sure if thats really a negative yet. The next rising star would inherit some good talent.
Beckman has proven to be an excellent recruiter though.
Beckman proved he's an idiot in that game. There was no good reason go to for 2 at the end. TOLEDO WAS THE BETTER TEAM and therefore there was no reason to go for 2. You kick the point go to overtime and win the game. Because even if you make it, you give FIU enough time to have to drive down the field. Of course, they made it a lot easier by doing a stupid squib kick. If Toledo kicks the point and kicks the ball deep, it's very likely the game goes to OT. FIU might take one or two shots, but they would've played it close to the vest.
But Beckman had it predetermined in his mind that he would be a hero, and show his big balls. He didn't understand the game situation at all. As soon as the TD was scored, he held up 2 fingers. My jaw almost hit the floor. I couldn't believe what I was seeing.
(12-29-2010 06:57 PM)niubrad00 Wrote: [ -> ]Beckman proved he's an idiot in that game. There was no good reason go to for 2 at the end. TOLEDO WAS THE BETTER TEAM and therefore there was no reason to go for 2. You kick the point go to overtime and win the game. Because even if you make it, you give FIU enough time to have to drive down the field. Of course, they made it a lot easier by doing a stupid squib kick. If Toledo kicks the point and kicks the ball deep, it's very likely the game goes to OT. FIU might take one or two shots, but they would've played it close to the vest.
But Beckman had it predetermined in his mind that he would be a hero, and show his big balls. He didn't understand the game situation at all. As soon as the TD was scored, he held up 2 fingers. My jaw almost hit the floor. I couldn't believe what I was seeing.
I missed seeing his big balls (Thank God) but thats one where you make the play you're a genius, miss it you're a bum. Amstutz missed one agianst Fresno in 2008 and I believe it was the beginning of the end for him. Beckman had the confidence and made it work. Kickoff was lame but if we make a stop on 4th and seventeen it wouldn't matter.
I have no problem with his 2 point call and the fact that he had a play ready that made it look easy and kept his young team's confidence high showed why he's coaching college football and we're not. The ensuing kickoff showed why he's got a ways to go before any BCS schools come calling.
The two-point try is statistically the smarter play.
(12-29-2010 09:35 PM)OZoner Wrote: [ -> ]The two-point try is statistically the smarter play.
Oh really? I would LOVE to hear the rationale behind that.
(12-29-2010 10:12 PM)niubrad00 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-29-2010 09:35 PM)OZoner Wrote: [ -> ]The two-point try is statistically the smarter play.
Oh really? I would LOVE to hear the rationale behind that.
Exactly. Only 40% of 2 point conversions are converted. So you have a 60% chance of losing the game right there. Take the point, kick it deep and you have a much better chance of forcing OT and winning the game... especially at "home".
(12-29-2010 10:16 PM)HuskiemobileMan Wrote: [ -> ] (12-29-2010 10:12 PM)niubrad00 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-29-2010 09:35 PM)OZoner Wrote: [ -> ]The two-point try is statistically the smarter play.
Oh really? I would LOVE to hear the rationale behind that.
Exactly. Only 40% of 2 point conversions are converted. So you have a 60% chance of losing the game right there. Take the point, kick it deep and you have a much better chance of forcing OT and winning the game... especially at "home".
I'm not sure there is a reasonable way to determine probability of a two point conversion's success. I'm guessing some teams are very good at it and some aren't. Some plays are more likely to be successful than others. Some defensive personnel packages might lend themselves to a two pointer more than others. Etc. But there's more to be considered-what is your chance of winning in OT? What is the chance the other team will score anyway? Blah, blah, blah--- All you can say is that Beckman absolutely made the right call here because it worked. Now one can speculate that FIU would just run out the clock and accept OT if we go for one but that's silly- no way was that coach accepting a tie in regulation. So Beckman is a genius because the play worked. And a chump for the ensuing kickoff.
I would not have gone for the two point conversion because of the time remaining on the clock. If you miss it you lose. If you make it the other team still has a shot at a field goal to beat you regardless. Either way, you still had to stop the other team, tie game or up by 1.
Kick the extra point and kick it deep.
(12-30-2010 08:00 AM)Redwingtom Wrote: [ -> ]I would not have gone for the two point conversion because of the time remaining on the clock. If you miss it you lose. If you make it the other team still has a shot at a field goal to beat you regardless. Either way, you still had to stop the other team, tie game or up by 1.
Kick the extra point and kick it deep.
All this talk about the 2 point is meaningless...
The worst coaching of the last two minutes was having the linebackers only five yards off the line on a 4th and 17 play... Shuld have had LB's 10 yards off and DB's 15 yards off....
(12-30-2010 08:17 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote: [ -> ] (12-30-2010 08:00 AM)Redwingtom Wrote: [ -> ]I would not have gone for the two point conversion because of the time remaining on the clock. If you miss it you lose. If you make it the other team still has a shot at a field goal to beat you regardless. Either way, you still had to stop the other team, tie game or up by 1.
Kick the extra point and kick it deep.
All this talk about the 2 point is meaningless...
The worst coaching of the last two minutes was having the linebackers only five yards off the line on a 4th and 17 play... Shuld have had LB's 10 yards off and DB's 15 yards off....
indeed, one of the best known plays in football is to have the LBs and Dbs placed so that they are not likely to be caught in bad angles on plays with a long distance to go.
A hook and ladder would have never worked.
(12-29-2010 04:48 PM)Nick in Cleveland Wrote: [ -> ]It's been a few days but I am still in shock about the 34-32 Toledo loss. First, I congratulate FIU for making the plays they needed too when they needed and for taking advantage of opportunities when they arose. Kudos to the Panthers for their victory.
Now back to Toledo. Between the turnovers, the penalties and for much of the second half just a lack of motivation, I don't understand how a team that should have won the game by 10-14 points managed to grab defeat from the jaws of victory. Falling to 1-3 in Motor City/Little Caesars Pizza Bowls is just not satisfactory for a proud Rocket football program.
I commend the job the current coaching staff has done since taking over Tom Amstutz’s mess two years ago but it certainly seemed like the FIU coaches were able to adjust their game plans in the second half while Toledo coaches and players all fell into a lethargic abyss.
As a MAC fan it really gripes me knowing that we continue to be putrid in post season play for the past four seasons. Hopefully Miami can win to get us back to 2-2.
Belated congratulations to NIU for getting it done in Boise against a very good Fresno State team. You did the MAC proud for one bowl game this season - thank you !!
NIU fans are all too familiar with grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory. I empathize with all Toledo fans
Id say the 2point play was rather great. Being at the game, and having a buddy call me screaming their going for 2, Im screaming my lights out. I know we had an awful kicking unit this year, so I was nervous we'd miss the point after. Im actually glad we have a coach that wants to win it right then and there. If we'd go into several overtimes, and lost, I would have been even more bitter.
Beckman was right and Beckman was wrong.
Good call on the 2 point play regardless of what you Internet gurus say (channeling Gregg Brandon to support Beckman).
But the call for the squib kick was absolutely the wrong call - kick it DEEP.
Had the 2 point conversion not worked Toledo fans would have been calling for Beckman's head.
(12-30-2010 10:53 AM)HuskiemobileMan Wrote: [ -> ]Had the 2 point conversion not worked Toledo fans would have been calling for Beckman's head.
As some did for Amstutz's (cue fat jokes), when he went for two in OT against Fresno in his final season. Nevertheless, the play was well conceived and executed and what I liked best was the show of confidence he made in his young QB and his All-American WR, neither of whom had shown much up to that point. That breeds only good things for next year.
But he better never do it and miss......
What's statistically bad is if the other team needs a FG to beat you and you give them starting field position at midfield for fear of giving up a kickoff return. Yeah, FIU returned one for a TD earlier, but the chances of it happening again were not great.
BG vs Idaho
UT vs FIU
Two bowl game endings that will linger for awhile for me where both losing teams had made great comebacks then did exactly enough to lose afterwards.
Yeah, that was a well designed play. Putting Page in motion might have confused FIU as I could not believe they were not double-teaming him on the play.