Toledo vs FIU last night, hook and ladder play. I have a rules question. I'm not trying to stir the pot, I just want to know.
The FIU player's foot was in, or lets adssume so, about a yard short of the first down marker. His momentum carried him out of bounds. My question is this. Do they mark the ball at the last point any part of his body crossed the OB or is the ball's postion. He did try to kick his left out but clearly the ball was nowhere near the first down marker.
I assume the officials ruled the former and thought his left foot crossed the first down marker. In my opinion it did not and certainly not by a half a foot. If it was supposed to be ball position, then Toledo was screwed. If it was any part of the body, then I can at least understand they were not certain although a bad call ( IMO ).
It's supposed to be ball position at the time he steps out. That call was definitely questionable, but again the FIU fumble that they said the runner was down and even reviewed it and still didn't call it a fumble was much worse. Even the ESPN announcers couldn't believe it wasn't a fumble. That changed field position big time, and really resulted in FIU's only 1st half score. Of course there were some missed face mask penalties that should have been called on FIU, and a very obvious hold on a play that FIU got a first down and ended up scoring a TD. Even the announcer said something about the holding not being called.
(12-27-2010 07:59 PM)BrianNowicki Wrote: [ -> ]It's supposed to be ball position at the time he steps out. That call was definitely questionable, but again the FIU fumble that they said the runner was down and even reviewed it and still didn't call it a fumble was much worse. Even the ESPN announcers couldn't believe it wasn't a fumble. That changed field position big time, and really resulted in FIU's only 1st half score. Of course there were some missed face mask penalties that should have been called on FIU, and a very obvious hold on a play that FIU got a first down and ended up scoring a TD. Even the announcer said something about the holding not being called.
That said, Toledo blew the game themselves.
The refs did call a lot of penalties on Toledo. And I think they got most of those right. The team played without discipline. I didn't like 1 hold and 1 block in the back.
But they put the whistle away when it came to FIU. Like you said...facemasks, holding...
And i just must not understand the out of bounds rule because it looked a yard short but there was no angle to reverse the call. But, just when I thought UT had held, the ref kept running 2 yards up the field from where i thought the play ended. That is where he blew it was the original spot from my perspective.
But how can Toledo call off the dogs with a lead? The play calling was passive. And a dominating performance that could have been a much bigger lead in the 1st half turned into an embarassment. It was a choke.
I believe Toledo will be improved next season. But I also believed Toledo would defeat FIU 41-21. So maybe they will stink?.?.?
C'mon guys. The refs missed calls on Toledo too. On one play, FIU quick-snapped the ball as an extra Toledo player was running off the field right in front of the referee and he did not throw a flag. The player was at least 10 feet in the field of play. The quarterback got sacked for a 12 yard loss on the play and it knocked them out of field goal range.
As far as the rule, yes, the rule is the forward point of the ball as the player is running out of bounds.
(12-28-2010 08:12 AM)Redwingtom Wrote: [ -> ]C'mon guys. The refs missed calls on Toledo too. On one play, FIU quick-snapped the ball as an extra Toledo player was running off the field right in front of the referee and he did not throw a flag. The player was at least 10 feet in the field of play. The quarterback got sacked for a 12 yard loss on the play and it knocked them out of field goal range.
As far as the rule, yes, the rule is the forward point of the ball as the player is running out of bounds.
I'm sure the refs missed calls both ways......they refs weren't very good and the one guy is actually notorious in the ACC for a pretty big incident. Hard to believe they actually had him doing a game.
Again though, the biggest play to me is that FIU fumble. And the main reason for that is because they actually reviewed it and said the call on the field was confirmed. Replays easily showed the ball carrier was never down. That's not only a miss by the officials on the field, but a really bad miss by the replay official in the booth.
That sucks, but it's a part of football. Remember before they had reviews at all? Calls were getting missed all the time. Fumbles were being called down and plays where players were down were being called fumbles. Completed passes were being called incomplete all the time, and vice versa. In that regards, the game has got better in terms of making the right calls.
Toledo lost the game and I am not going to fault any one play (though if Hilton does not return that kick off for a TD FIU doesn't get any momentum and it probably ends up being a Toledo blowout). Momentum and player emotion is a big part of the college game.
Bad calls or misplaced spots or whatever...
Bottom line, Toledo let one get away... This should definitely put a nasty disposition with the team and staff during winter conditioning and hopefully carry over into 2011...
(12-28-2010 08:12 AM)Redwingtom Wrote: [ -> ]C'mon guys. The refs missed calls on Toledo too. On one play, FIU quick-snapped the ball as an extra Toledo player was running off the field right in front of the referee and he did not throw a flag. The player was at least 10 feet in the field of play. The quarterback got sacked for a 12 yard loss on the play and it knocked them out of field goal range.
As far as the rule, yes, the rule is the forward point of the ball as the player is running out of bounds.
I'm sure the refs missed calls both ways......they refs weren't very good and the one guy is actually notorious in the ACC for a pretty big incident. Hard to believe they actually had him doing a game.
Again though, the biggest play to me is that FIU fumble. And the main reason for that is because they actually reviewed it and said the call on the field was confirmed. Replays easily showed the ball carrier was never down. That's not only a miss by the officials on the field, but a really bad miss by the replay official in the booth.
That sucks, but it's a part of football. Remember before they had reviews at all? Calls were getting missed all the time. Fumbles were being called down and plays where players were down were being called fumbles. Completed passes were being called incomplete all the time, and vice versa. In that regards, the game has got better in terms of making the right calls.
Toledo lost the game and I am not going to fault any one play (though if Hilton does not return that kick off for a TD FIU doesn't get any momentum and it probably ends up being a Toledo blowout). Momentum and player emotion is a big part of the college game.
Yeah, I never quite got why that was not a fumble either. Looked pretty convincing on the replay I saw.
(12-28-2010 01:55 PM)BrianNowicki Wrote: [ -> ]I'm sure the refs missed calls both ways......they refs weren't very good and the one guy is actually notorious in the ACC for a pretty big incident. Hard to believe they actually had him doing a game.
Again though, the biggest play to me is that FIU fumble. And the main reason for that is because they actually reviewed it and said the call on the field was confirmed. Replays easily showed the ball carrier was never down. That's not only a miss by the officials on the field, but a really bad miss by the replay official in the booth.
That sucks, but it's a part of football. Remember before they had reviews at all? Calls were getting missed all the time. Fumbles were being called down and plays where players were down were being called fumbles. Completed passes were being called incomplete all the time, and vice versa. In that regards, the game has got better in terms of making the right calls.
Toledo lost the game and I am not going to fault any one play (though if Hilton does not return that kick off for a TD FIU doesn't get any momentum and it probably ends up being a Toledo blowout). Momentum and player emotion is a big part of the college game.