Unbelievable that a man has done that with NASCAR to win 5 straight Sprint Car Cup championships with the field so competitive each week. He has to be compared with a Richard Petty and other NASCAR greats with for the most part his consistency he has had in this time to make it.
I feel bad for Denny Hamlin though, our FedEx driver.
(11-21-2010 09:41 PM)UofMark Wrote: [ -> ]I feel bad for Denny Hamlin though, our FedEx driver.
Hamlin is a crybaby. Hate Fedex has to put him in the car. Way better than when Lefler was in it, but he is such a baby. Wouldnt man up when he slid up into the 16. I hate to say it, but I like the 18 better than Hamlin.
(11-21-2010 09:08 PM)BARTLETTTIGER Wrote: [ -> ]Unbelievable that a man has done that with NASCAR to win 5 straight Sprint Car Cup championships with the field so competitive each week. He has to be compared with a Richard Petty and other NASCAR greats with for the most part his consistency he has had in this time to make it.
You can't compare him to Petty, Earnhardt or any of the greats (even Gordon). Different era and different sport with the new format. How many championships would Johnson had won if they hadn't changed to this "Race for the Chase"? or gone to all the cookie cutter 1.5 mile tracks?
He's an excellent driver, and Knaus is the best crew chief there is, taking nothing away from either, but you can't compare the number of championships with the pre "Race for the Chase" guys.
(11-21-2010 10:35 PM)Linemech Wrote: [ -> ] (11-21-2010 09:08 PM)BARTLETTTIGER Wrote: [ -> ]Unbelievable that a man has done that with NASCAR to win 5 straight Sprint Car Cup championships with the field so competitive each week. He has to be compared with a Richard Petty and other NASCAR greats with for the most part his consistency he has had in this time to make it.
You can't compare him to Petty, Earnhardt or any of the greats (even Gordon). Different era and different sport with the new format. How many championships would Johnson had won if they hadn't changed to this "Race for the Chase"? or gone to all the cookie cutter 1.5 mile tracks?
He's an excellent driver, and Knaus is the best crew chief there is, taking nothing away from either, but you can't compare the number of championships with the pre "Race for the Chase" guys.
Not a Johnson fan but he has won on the tracks that Nascar assigned him to race on and with the point system Nascar developed. What else can Johnson do? When Petty won many of his races, Nascar was racing 2 and 3 times a week and had small blocks racing big blocks and some of the tracks were less than ideal. All a driver can do is line up against the competition and have the best man win. Johnson has done that. The different era comparison is there in every sport. Boxing, baseball, football. You cant ignore that todays teams are winning against their competition, regardless of how big the track is, how many relief pitchers a team has, or how many different sanctioning bodies of boxing there are.
(11-22-2010 09:30 AM)Hello Newman Wrote: [ -> ] (11-21-2010 10:35 PM)Linemech Wrote: [ -> ] (11-21-2010 09:08 PM)BARTLETTTIGER Wrote: [ -> ]Unbelievable that a man has done that with NASCAR to win 5 straight Sprint Car Cup championships with the field so competitive each week. He has to be compared with a Richard Petty and other NASCAR greats with for the most part his consistency he has had in this time to make it.
You can't compare him to Petty, Earnhardt or any of the greats (even Gordon). Different era and different sport with the new format. How many championships would Johnson had won if they hadn't changed to this "Race for the Chase"? or gone to all the cookie cutter 1.5 mile tracks?
He's an excellent driver, and Knaus is the best crew chief there is, taking nothing away from either, but you can't compare the number of championships with the pre "Race for the Chase" guys.
Not a Johnson fan but he has won on the tracks that Nascar assigned him to race on and with the point system Nascar developed. What else can Johnson do? When Petty won many of his races, Nascar was racing 2 and 3 times a week and had small blocks racing big blocks and some of the tracks were less than ideal. All a driver can do is line up against the competition and have the best man win. Johnson has done that. The different era comparison is there in every sport. Boxing, baseball, football. You cant ignore that todays teams are winning against their competition, regardless of how big the track is, how many relief pitchers a team has, or how many different sanctioning bodies of boxing there are.
How many teams or a individual player has won 5 in a row of anything in sports overall? This is so unfair that just because it is in your words " a cookie cutter" 1.5 mile track? Are you saying just because you do not like the direction NASCAR is going right now it is not a fair comparision? You might be right, but I do not understand this mentality by a fan of any sport anyway. If you do not like the "Chase" format, that is not going to change anyway, even if the person who won the most races did not win the Chase for the Cup. Has it not always been the person who led the most laps and not races won before the Chase format came into existence? Take up those issues that you have with NASCAR and not with the driver. He won in the present form of how they decide championships in that sport.
(11-22-2010 10:17 PM)BARTLETTTIGER Wrote: [ -> ] (11-22-2010 09:30 AM)Hello Newman Wrote: [ -> ] (11-21-2010 10:35 PM)Linemech Wrote: [ -> ] (11-21-2010 09:08 PM)BARTLETTTIGER Wrote: [ -> ]Unbelievable that a man has done that with NASCAR to win 5 straight Sprint Car Cup championships with the field so competitive each week. He has to be compared with a Richard Petty and other NASCAR greats with for the most part his consistency he has had in this time to make it.
You can't compare him to Petty, Earnhardt or any of the greats (even Gordon). Different era and different sport with the new format. How many championships would Johnson had won if they hadn't changed to this "Race for the Chase"? or gone to all the cookie cutter 1.5 mile tracks?
He's an excellent driver, and Knaus is the best crew chief there is, taking nothing away from either, but you can't compare the number of championships with the pre "Race for the Chase" guys.
Not a Johnson fan but he has won on the tracks that Nascar assigned him to race on and with the point system Nascar developed. What else can Johnson do? When Petty won many of his races, Nascar was racing 2 and 3 times a week and had small blocks racing big blocks and some of the tracks were less than ideal. All a driver can do is line up against the competition and have the best man win. Johnson has done that. The different era comparison is there in every sport. Boxing, baseball, football. You cant ignore that todays teams are winning against their competition, regardless of how big the track is, how many relief pitchers a team has, or how many different sanctioning bodies of boxing there are.
How many teams or a individual player has won 5 in a row of anything in sports overall? This is so unfair that just because it is in your words " a cookie cutter" 1.5 mile track? Are you saying just because you do not like the direction NASCAR is going right now it is not a great accomplishment? That is crazy to say something like that. I do not understand this mentality by a fan of any sport anyway. If you do not like the "Chase" format, that is not going to change anyway, even if the person who won the most races did not win the Chase for the Cup. Has it not always been the person who led the most laps and not races won before the Chase format came into existence? Take up those issues iwth that with NASCAR.
Judging by NASCARs numbers I'm not the only one not liking the direction they're going. And not even going back to the Petty era, just back to Gordon (and I'm far from a fan of his). Just saying, if the championship was determined now as it was pre Race for the Chase, Johnson wouldn't have won 5 in a row (of course that's just my opinion). In my opinon, it was harder to win in the past, not that it isn't hard now. Johnson is a heck of a driver (could be the greatest of his era), and would have been great in any era, and Knaus may be the best crew chief of all time, not denying any of that. Oh, and reread my post, I never said it wasn't a great accomplishment, just that it's not a fair comparison.
Cookie cutter tracks, cookie cutter cars and a fan base that blossomed over the past decade that is starting to look for the next big thing (who knows, PBR or poker). NASCARS numbers are down, both at the track and on TV. They've alienated some long time fans who carried them during the early years trying to lure in the northern and western states/fans. It's not just my words. Look at all the sponsors leaving.
(11-23-2010 01:37 PM)Linemech Wrote: [ -> ] (11-22-2010 10:17 PM)BARTLETTTIGER Wrote: [ -> ] (11-22-2010 09:30 AM)Hello Newman Wrote: [ -> ] (11-21-2010 10:35 PM)Linemech Wrote: [ -> ] (11-21-2010 09:08 PM)BARTLETTTIGER Wrote: [ -> ]Unbelievable that a man has done that with NASCAR to win 5 straight Sprint Car Cup championships with the field so competitive each week. He has to be compared with a Richard Petty and other NASCAR greats with for the most part his consistency he has had in this time to make it.
You can't compare him to Petty, Earnhardt or any of the greats (even Gordon). Different era and different sport with the new format. How many championships would Johnson had won if they hadn't changed to this "Race for the Chase"? or gone to all the cookie cutter 1.5 mile tracks?
He's an excellent driver, and Knaus is the best crew chief there is, taking nothing away from either, but you can't compare the number of championships with the pre "Race for the Chase" guys.
Not a Johnson fan but he has won on the tracks that Nascar assigned him to race on and with the point system Nascar developed. What else can Johnson do? When Petty won many of his races, Nascar was racing 2 and 3 times a week and had small blocks racing big blocks and some of the tracks were less than ideal. All a driver can do is line up against the competition and have the best man win. Johnson has done that. The different era comparison is there in every sport. Boxing, baseball, football. You cant ignore that todays teams are winning against their competition, regardless of how big the track is, how many relief pitchers a team has, or how many different sanctioning bodies of boxing there are.
How many teams or a individual player has won 5 in a row of anything in sports overall? This is so unfair that just because it is in your words " a cookie cutter" 1.5 mile track? Are you saying just because you do not like the direction NASCAR is going right now it is not a great accomplishment? That is crazy to say something like that. I do not understand this mentality by a fan of any sport anyway. If you do not like the "Chase" format, that is not going to change anyway, even if the person who won the most races did not win the Chase for the Cup. Has it not always been the person who led the most laps and not races won before the Chase format came into existence? Take up those issues iwth that with NASCAR.
Judging by NASCARs numbers I'm not the only one not liking the direction they're going. And not even going back to the Petty era, just back to Gordon (and I'm far from a fan of his). Just saying, if the championship was determined now as it was pre Race for the Chase, Johnson wouldn't have won 5 in a row (of course that's just my opinion). In my opinon, it was harder to win in the past, not that it isn't hard now. Johnson is a heck of a driver (could be the greatest of his era), and would have been great in any era, and Knaus may be the best crew chief of all time, not denying any of that. Oh, and reread my post, I never said it wasn't a great accomplishment, just that it's not a fair comparison.
Cookie cutter tracks, cookie cutter cars and a fan base that blossomed over the past decade that is starting to look for the next big thing (who knows, PBR or poker). NASCARS numbers are down, both at the track and on TV. They've alienated some long time fans who carried them during the early years trying to lure in the northern and western states/fans. It's not just my words. Look at all the sponsors leaving.
While all of that is true, it doesn't detract from Jimmy Johnson's achievement of 5 in a row.
Regardless of the cookie cutter tracks, COT, splitter, wing, new format, etc; if DE sr/jr, Jeff Gordon, either of the Bush brothers, etc, would have done the same thing Jimmy has done; they would be hailed one of NASCAR's greatest of all time. For some reason, he gets minimal credit all over, not just here.
[quote='Linemech' pid='5940263' dateline='1290537
Will try again.
Many forms of motorsports have lost fans and sponsors. The super bowl didnt sell out of advertising last year. I am sure baseball has lost some advertisers. NHRA, Outlaws, Open Wheel have lost sponsors. Motorcross is the Nascar of today. Sold out domes and more races each year.
If it were so easy for the 48 team to dominate, why hasnt anyone else done it. All they can do is race the tracks they are scheduled on with the points system they were given. The four super teams have almost half the field each week. Hendricks, Roush, Penske and Gibbs have gobbled up all the resources and personnel. With Hendricks basically having 6 teams and the other 3 owners having 3 or 4 each, with feeder teams in truck and nationwide, its easy to see why those 4 teams dominate each week. I hate seeing the 48 dominate, but Chad and Jimmie have it going on, overcome adversity and sit at the head table at the awards banquet. Maybe nest year it will be Ford and Hamlin or Edwards and Osborn. Either would be nice considering both have strong local ties. Hamlin with Fedex and Edwards having his race shop located here. The 48 team cant dominate forever, but they have a string of success right now that no one before them has accomplished and it might not ever happen again.
(11-23-2010 04:59 PM)oldtiger Wrote: [ -> ] (11-23-2010 01:37 PM)Linemech Wrote: [ -> ][quote='BARTLETTTIGER' pid='5938063' dateline='1290482270']
[quote='Hello Newman' pid='5937097' dateline='1290436222']
[quote='Linemech' pid='5936226' dateline='1290396906']
While all of that is true, it doesn't detract from Jimmy Johnson's achievement of 5 in a row.
Regardless of the cookie cutter tracks, COT, splitter, wing, new format, etc; if DE sr/jr, Jeff Gordon, either of the Bush brothers, etc, would have done the same thing Jimmy has done; they would be hailed one of NASCAR's greatest of all time. For some reason, he gets minimal credit all over, not just here.
It's what I put in my post
"Johnson is a heck of a driver (could be the greatest of his era), and would have been great in any era, and Knaus may be the best crew chief of all time, not denying any of that. Oh, and reread my post, I never said it wasn't a great accomplishment, just that it's not a fair comparison."
NASCAR could ask nothing more but for Jr to win a championship (or at least a couple races, lol). He is the poster boy of modern racing because of his name. Neither of the Busch brothers would be hailed as the greatest, Kyle is a heck of a driver and would probably have at least one championship from the past 5 years if it were still the old way, but neither Busch would win a popularity contest. Johnson does get credit, and I think had he done this a decade ago when NASCAR was at it's modern era high, he'd have really been everywhere. Unfortunately, he's a driver without a lot of personality, in a sport that's lost what personality it had.
(11-23-2010 05:43 PM)Hello Newman Wrote: [ -> ]Will try again.
Many forms of motorsports have lost fans and sponsors. The super bowl didnt sell out of advertising last year. I am sure baseball has lost some advertisers. NHRA, Outlaws, Open Wheel have lost sponsors. Motorcross is the Nascar of today. Sold out domes and more races each year.
If it were so easy for the 48 team to dominate, why hasnt anyone else done it. All they can do is race the tracks they are scheduled on with the points system they were given. The four super teams have almost half the field each week. Hendricks, Roush, Penske and Gibbs have gobbled up all the resources and personnel. With Hendricks basically having 6 teams and the other 3 owners having 3 or 4 each, with feeder teams in truck and nationwide, its easy to see why those 4 teams dominate each week. I hate seeing the 48 dominate, but Chad and Jimmie have it going on, overcome adversity and sit at the head table at the awards banquet. Maybe nest year it will be Ford and Hamlin or Edwards and Osborn. Either would be nice considering both have strong local ties. Hamlin with Fedex and Edwards having his race shop located here. The 48 team cant dominate forever, but they have a string of success right now that no one before them has accomplished and it might not ever happen again.
Dang, that's another thing I hate, NASCAR teams. How would Johnson have finished if he'd had to use his own team all year? That was pretty bad pulling his crew mid race and subbing them with Gordons. Which pit crew did Johnson finish the year with? (Not being sarcastic as I really don't know).
(11-23-2010 05:43 PM)Hello Newman Wrote: [ -> ]Will try again.
Many forms of motorsports have lost fans and sponsors. The super bowl didnt sell out of advertising last year. I am sure baseball has lost some advertisers. NHRA, Outlaws, Open Wheel have lost sponsors. Motorcross is the Nascar of today. Sold out domes and more races each year.
If it were so easy for the 48 team to dominate, why hasnt anyone else done it. All they can do is race the tracks they are scheduled on with the points system they were given. The four super teams have almost half the field each week. Hendricks, Roush, Penske and Gibbs have gobbled up all the resources and personnel. With Hendricks basically having 6 teams and the other 3 owners having 3 or 4 each, with feeder teams in truck and nationwide, its easy to see why those 4 teams dominate each week. I hate seeing the 48 dominate, but Chad and Jimmie have it going on, overcome adversity and sit at the head table at the awards banquet. Maybe nest year it will be Ford and Hamlin or Edwards and Osborn. Either would be nice considering both have strong local ties. Hamlin with Fedex and Edwards having his race shop located here. The 48 team cant dominate forever, but they have a string of success right now that no one before them has accomplished and it might not ever happen again.
Is Jimmy Johnson not liked in NASCAR circles as a driver? I know the Junior has never really fulfilled his potential as a racer or did not have the same charisma as his father, but NASCAR is so competitve to live up to his Dad's reputation for me is just simply to hard to do. With it being so competitive in that circuit, it is amazing one man won the Cup Chase 5 years in a row.
(11-23-2010 05:54 PM)Linemech Wrote: [ -> ] (11-23-2010 05:43 PM)Hello Newman Wrote: [ -> ]Will try again.
Many forms of motorsports have lost fans and sponsors. The super bowl didnt sell out of advertising last year. I am sure baseball has lost some advertisers. NHRA, Outlaws, Open Wheel have lost sponsors. Motorcross is the Nascar of today. Sold out domes and more races each year.
If it were so easy for the 48 team to dominate, why hasnt anyone else done it. All they can do is race the tracks they are scheduled on with the points system they were given. The four super teams have almost half the field each week. Hendricks, Roush, Penske and Gibbs have gobbled up all the resources and personnel. With Hendricks basically having 6 teams and the other 3 owners having 3 or 4 each, with feeder teams in truck and nationwide, its easy to see why those 4 teams dominate each week. I hate seeing the 48 dominate, but Chad and Jimmie have it going on, overcome adversity and sit at the head table at the awards banquet. Maybe nest year it will be Ford and Hamlin or Edwards and Osborn. Either would be nice considering both have strong local ties. Hamlin with Fedex and Edwards having his race shop located here. The 48 team cant dominate forever, but they have a string of success right now that no one before them has accomplished and it might not ever happen again.
Dang, that's another thing I hate, NASCAR teams. How would Johnson have finished if he'd had to use his own team all year? That was pretty bad pulling his crew mid race and subbing them with Gordons. Which pit crew did Johnson finish the year with? (Not being sarcastic as I really don't know).
Johnson finished the last 3 or so races with Gordons pit crew. I wonder who will get the bonuses and rings that the pit crews get for a championship. The original 48 crew, or the recycled 24, new 48 crew.
Harvick did the same thing before the chase began, taking the pit crew from Clint Boyer. Those advantages become critical at crunch time. Having the ability to switch crews, cars, motors, tires from other team members is a big help. Kinda like having the ability to pull players from other teams once the NCAA tournament begins. Would be great to draft players from other schools to cover your weak areas.
(11-23-2010 06:46 PM)BARTLETTTIGER Wrote: [ -> ] (11-23-2010 05:43 PM)Hello Newman Wrote: [ -> ]Will try again.
Many forms of motorsports have lost fans and sponsors. The super bowl didnt sell out of advertising last year. I am sure baseball has lost some advertisers. NHRA, Outlaws, Open Wheel have lost sponsors. Motorcross is the Nascar of today. Sold out domes and more races each year.
If it were so easy for the 48 team to dominate, why hasnt anyone else done it. All they can do is race the tracks they are scheduled on with the points system they were given. The four super teams have almost half the field each week. Hendricks, Roush, Penske and Gibbs have gobbled up all the resources and personnel. With Hendricks basically having 6 teams and the other 3 owners having 3 or 4 each, with feeder teams in truck and nationwide, its easy to see why those 4 teams dominate each week. I hate seeing the 48 dominate, but Chad and Jimmie have it going on, overcome adversity and sit at the head table at the awards banquet. Maybe nest year it will be Ford and Hamlin or Edwards and Osborn. Either would be nice considering both have strong local ties. Hamlin with Fedex and Edwards having his race shop located here. The 48 team cant dominate forever, but they have a string of success right now that no one before them has accomplished and it might not ever happen again.
Is Jimmy Johnson not liked in NASCAR circles as a driver? I know the Junior has never really fulfilled his potential as a racer, but NASCAR is so competitve to live up to his Dad's reputation for me is just simply to hard to do. With it being so competitive in that circuit, it is amazing one man won the Cup Chase 5 years in a row.
The other drivers have to respect what Johnson has done. He isnt loud or charismatic like many of the other drivers, doesnt ruffle many feathers or cause many problems. Just goes about his business of collecting championships. Cant ask for more than that.