Since basketball season is upon us, I'd like to offer these stats I came up with for the past five seasons (all numbers are from the final Sagarin Rankings for each season). I kept UNO in it just since they were a part of our conference for these seasons. Hopefully we will see these numbers take a dramatic rise.
Here is the average Sagarin ranking over the last 5 years for each school (4 years for ULM and FAU not in SB 05-06 season):
90 WKU
138 USA
157 UNT
170 MTSU
199 TROY
205 UALR
219 ULL
224 ASU
228 DU
232 FAU
244 UNO
256 ULM
269 FIU
If this were like a class and we dropped the worst ranking we get:
79 WKU
116 USA
148 UNT
166 MTSU
186 UALR
190 TROY
204 DU
208 ULL
212 FAU
212 ASU
226 UNO
245 ULM
261 FIU
Best Sagarin Rank Achieved over 5 year time period:
34 WKU
57 USA
121 UALR
138 UNT
153 MTSU
164 TROY
164 ULL
174 UNO
178 DU
192 ASU
207 ULM
209 FAU
247 FIU
Best 1-13 ranking achieved in conference:
1 WKU (all 5 times)
2 USA (three times)
2 UNT
2 UALR
3 MTSU
3 TROY
4 ULL
5 DU (twice)
5 ASU
5 UNO
6 ULM
7 FAU (twice)
9 FIU
Worst 1-13 Ranking Achieved in conference:
13 ASU
13 DU
13 FAU
13 UNO
12 FIU
12 ULM
10 UALR
10 ULL
9 TROY
9 USA
6 UNT
5 MTSU
1 WKU
Only 5 Sun Belt teams have finished in the top 100 of the Sagarin Rankings in the past 5 years:
05-06 WKU
05-06 USA
07-08 WKU
07-08 USA
08-09 WKU
(11-09-2010 12:54 PM)KAjunRaider Wrote: [ -> ]Screw the Sagarins.
Amen, Sagarin is a joke.:odie:
(11-09-2010 12:58 PM)MG61 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-09-2010 12:54 PM)KAjunRaider Wrote: [ -> ]Screw the Sagarins.
Amen, Sagarin is a joke.:odie:
For basketball, his end of the year rankings are solid.
(11-09-2010 01:08 PM)AtlantaJag Wrote: [ -> ]For basketball, his end of the year rankings are solid.
I don't have a big problem with the basketball ratings from Sagarin. Football is a different story. It's not like sagarin is mixing in with D1 teams, teams from dII. You're not going to have Carson Newman or West Alabama ranked ahead of North Texas, South Alabama, or UL-Monroe in basketball.
If there are legit reasons not to like sagarin's ratings in basketball, I'd like to hear them.
(11-09-2010 12:40 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote: [ -> ]Since basketball season is upon us, I'd like to offer these stats I came up with for the past five seasons (all numbers are from the final Sagarin Rankings for each season). I kept UNO in it just since they were a part of our conference for these seasons. Hopefully we will see these numbers take a dramatic rise.
Here is the average Sagarin ranking over the last 5 years for each school (4 years for ULM and FAU not in SB 05-06 season):
90 WKU
138 USA
157 UNT
170 MTSU
199 TROY
205 UALR
219 ULL
224 ASU
228 DU
232 FAU
244 UNO
256 ULM
269 FIU
If this were like a class and we dropped the worst ranking we get:
79 WKU
116 USA
148 UNT
166 MTSU
186 UALR
190 TROY
204 DU
208 ULL
212 FAU
212 ASU
226 UNO
245 ULM
261 FIU
Best Sagarin Rank Achieved over 5 year time period:
34 WKU
57 USA
121 UALR
138 UNT
153 MTSU
164 TROY
164 ULL
174 UNO
178 DU
192 ASU
207 ULM
209 FAU
247 FIU
Best 1-13 ranking achieved in conference:
1 WKU (all 5 times)
2 USA (three times)
2 UNT
2 UALR
3 MTSU
3 TROY
4 ULL
5 DU (twice)
5 ASU
5 UNO
6 ULM
7 FAU (twice)
9 FIU
Worst 1-13 Ranking Achieved in conference:
13 ASU
13 DU
13 FAU
13 UNO
12 FIU
12 ULM
10 UALR
10 ULL
9 TROY
9 USA
6 UNT
5 MTSU
1 WKU
Only 5 Sun Belt teams have finished in the top 100 of the Sagarin Rankings in the past 5 years:
05-06 WKU
05-06 USA
07-08 WKU
07-08 USA
08-09 WKU
I'll go ahead and argue that the last five years is not an accurate measure of the programs. It's a snapshot of where they are now.
The last 5 years for the Cajuns are arguably some of the worst that we've had in our history.
(11-09-2010 12:40 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote: [ -> ]Only 5 Sun Belt teams have finished in the top 100 of the Sagarin Rankings in the past 5 years:
05-06 WKU
05-06 USA
07-08 WKU
07-08 USA
08-09 WKU
So what do we do now? Drop all teams that have not finished in the top 100 in the past 5 years?
(11-09-2010 02:50 PM)AstroCajun Wrote: [ -> ]I'll go ahead and argue that the last five years is not an accurate measure of the programs. It's a snapshot of where they are now.
The last 5 years for the Cajuns are arguably some of the worst that we've had in our history.
This was not meant as a historical measure of the programs. It was meant as a snapshot.
(11-09-2010 02:52 PM)FIU4Ever Wrote: [ -> ] (11-09-2010 12:40 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote: [ -> ]Only 5 Sun Belt teams have finished in the top 100 of the Sagarin Rankings in the past 5 years:
05-06 WKU
05-06 USA
07-08 WKU
07-08 USA
08-09 WKU
So what do we do now? Drop all teams that have not finished in the top 100 in the past 5 years?
You are taking my post out of the context of which I intended. We need to improve our numbers as a league. I think it is pretty telling that in the last 5 years we have only had 5 occurrences of a team in the top 100 ratings.
Let's compare to the last 5 years for the Big East:
09-10: 14 of 16 Big East schools in top 100
08-09: 13 of 16 Big East schools in top 102
07-08: 12 of 16 Big East schools in top 107
06-07: 11 of 16 Big East schools in top 100
05-06: 15 of 16 Big East schools in top 111
We have to get better as a conference. Last year there were 14 of the 16 Big East schools in the top 100. The Sun Belt had 0. We need to change this. That is my point.
(11-09-2010 03:39 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote: [ -> ]You are taking my post out of the context of which I intended. We need to improve our numbers as a league. I think it is pretty telling that in the last 5 years we have only had 5 occurrences of a team in the top 100 ratings.
We have to get better as a conference. Last year there were 14 of the 16 Big East schools in the top 100. The Sun Belt had 0. We need to change this. That is my point.
How does one accomplish this in Basketball? Is it all in the scheduleing?
I looked at FAU's schedule and to be honest there are schools on there that I have never heard of. Are these the types of games that kill RPI? Why do schools play them then?
I guess I just look at it from a Football philosphy that beating a cupcake school from a lower division is good for the record and good for perception. But it seems that that is not the case in Basketball.
Damn goofy sport to figure out on how to succeed.
Look at WKU's out of conference schedule this year:
at St. Joe's
2010 Honda Puerto Rico Tip-Off vs. Minnesota - winner will play North Carolina / Hofstra
South Carolina
at Vanderbilt
at Memphis
at Bowling Green State
Southern Illinois
at Murray State
Louisville
Even if they were to lose most of them, there is a such thing as a 'good' loss. They should have a better RPI from playing 'good' teams and losing than beating up on the Houston Baptist's and Presbyterians all season long. Of course you really help yourself when you win these games, which WKU is certainly capable of doing. USA has benefited from the scheduling as well, especially in 07-08 when we got the at-large bid.
(11-09-2010 04:05 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote: [ -> ]Look at WKU's out of conference schedule this year:
at St. Joe's
2010 Honda Puerto Rico Tip-Off vs. Minnesota - winner will play North Carolina / Hofstra
South Carolina
at Vanderbilt
at Memphis
at Bowling Green State
Southern Illinois
at Murray State
Louisville
Even if they were to lose most of them, there is a such thing as a 'good' loss. They should have a better RPI from playing 'good' teams and losing than beating up on the Houston Baptist's and Presbyterians all season long. Of course you really help yourself when you win these games, which WKU is certainly capable of doing. USA has benefited from the scheduling as well, especially in 07-08 when we got the at-large bid.
Little Rock has a solid non conference schedule this year, one that would meet the new scheduling criteria:
@SMU
@St. Bonaventure
Illinois State
@ ORU
Louisiana Tech
@ Missouri State
Tulsa
Ole Miss
@Rice
Akron @ Las Vegas
ORU @ Las Vegas
Stetson @ Las Vegas
St. Bonaventure
TROY's non-con schedule:
Huntingdon College*
@Alabama
@Ga St
@UTSA
@Miss St
UAB
@Arkansas
@Miami-OH
Belmont
World Vision Invitational (Logan, UT)
W. Mich
Idaho St
Utah St
*-exhibition
(11-09-2010 04:50 PM)trojanbrutha Wrote: [ -> ]TROY's non-con schedule:
Huntingdon College*
@Alabama
@Ga St
@UTSA
@Miss St
UAB
@Arkansas
@Miami-OH
Belmont
World Vision Invitational (Logan, UT)
W. Mich
Idaho St
Utah St
*-exhibition
That's pretty heavy on the road games, and money games also. Seven road games vs. two home games.
North Texas non-con (there's 3 or 4 I'd like to drop but overall not horrible). I put Kenpom preseason rankings next to opponent.
Henderson St (not-ranked)
Texas Tech (48)
@ Kansas (3)
Rice (160)
@ Texas St (191)
UT-Arlington (300)
Grambling St (342)
@ Texas Southern (338)
@ Sam Houston (127)
Jackson St (269)
Texas St (191)
@ LSU (82)
Oklahoma Panhandle St (not ranked)
(11-09-2010 05:19 PM)PTJR Wrote: [ -> ] (11-09-2010 04:50 PM)trojanbrutha Wrote: [ -> ]TROY's non-con schedule:
Huntingdon College*
@Alabama
@Ga St
@UTSA
@Miss St
UAB
@Arkansas
@Miami-OH
Belmont
World Vision Invitational (Logan, UT)
W. Mich
Idaho St
Utah St
*-exhibition
That's pretty heavy on the road games, and money games also. Seven road games vs. two home games.
There will be more home games once the new arena opens. I'm psychic
(11-09-2010 03:46 PM)OwlFamily Wrote: [ -> ]How does one accomplish this in Basketball? Is it all in the scheduling?
IMO, it starts there. If you play good teams, assuming you have a commitment to the sport, your team must get better. This could be attracting more ambitious coaches (not ones who are happy with mediocrity), attracting better players, more fan support, improving the conference reputation, getting into the NCAA tournament (at-large or conference winner), etc.
Each item above helps out every other item, and one of the few things the administration has control over is the schedule. Scheduling easy wins against lesser opponents doesn't help you get into the NCAAs, or get better players, coaches, fans, etc. Everyone (fans, coaches, NCAA committee, players) can see through a 20+ win season with no wins over <200 RPI (because your RPI isn't much better).