Guys, chill. Stock up on brews, relax at Legion Field (or at your computer/TV if you're out of state), and enjoy the young men we have representing our university. Not only is it reactionary to call for a firing now (even if we don't win another game), it's 100 times more ridiculous calling for the heads of Mackin/Garrison because they don't make the change. Firing a college coach in the middle of the season - barring moral, legal, ethical issues - just does no good. It doesn't get you any farther ahead in the search for a replacement (those discussions take place behind the scenes with intermediate contacts anyway) and it puts a very bad taste in the mouths of potential hires in the coaching "fraternity."
I understand the "showing fans they care" angle, but if you're worried about that then shoot Mackin, Garrison, et. al. an email or walk up to them at a game. Changing coaches, and finding the right coach while there is not "officially" an opening, is a delicate dance. Just ask Auburn trustees about the fiasco they created in bungling the "pre-search" to replace Tuberville.
I agree, a firing now would be dumb.
I just don't want the replacement process to begin in December. If you don't publically fire him now, fine. At some point after the 6th loss, he needs to be told he wont be coming back so he can be lining up his next gig and the assistants as well. Recruiting will be crucial for the next coach, so a new coach needs to be named ASAP so this years recruiting is not a complete loss.
Agree with blazr. I trust that Mackin is doing something behind the scenes already.
(10-08-2010 11:32 PM)blazr Wrote: [ -> ]Guys, chill. Stock up on brews, relax at Legion Field (or at your computer/TV if you're out of state), and enjoy the young men we have representing our university. Not only is it reactionary to call for a firing now (even if we don't win another game), it's 100 times more ridiculous calling for the heads of Mackin/Garrison because they don't make the change. Firing a college coach in the middle of the season - barring moral, legal, ethical issues - just does no good. It doesn't get you any farther ahead in the search for a replacement (those discussions take place behind the scenes with intermediate contacts anyway) and it puts a very bad taste in the mouths of potential hires in the coaching "fraternity."
If the confidence in a coach is lost, it is gone. There's no recovering it. And since you can't cancel the remainder of the season...I totally understand why those in charge pull the hook on coaches.
You cite Auburn, I cite
Florida: When UF AD Jeremy Foley announced Ron Zook's firing in the middle of the 2004 season, he was quoted (paraphrasing), "What should be done eventually must be done immediately."
And as far as the coaching fraternity is concerned--I'm not worried abut that either. Those guys aren't sitting around shooting the **** like in the teacher's lounge. Everyone 'talks' until the checks and contracts are signed, and then they're out trying to keep them rolling in. And if there's one thing coaches like, it's paychecks.
UAB needs to start taking a few good risks to show its serious. The Blazers aren't going to make news with more football losses--maybe this program should make a few moves to show it wants to win.
(10-09-2010 12:00 AM)HSV_BLAZER Wrote: [ -> ]Agree with blazr. I trust that Mackin is doing something behind the scenes already.
UAB fans trusted the university's leadership the last time around and look what happened. Not that it matters if fans trust them or not but I think a lack of confidence is pretty understandable. It's going to take some concrete action by Garrison and Mackin to convince a lot of fans that they actually have the power to make a change. I agree it's probably not necessary for Callaway to clean out his office during the season, but an announcement that a change will be made would give the fan base some desperately needed encouragement.
Normally I would agree that firing a coach mid season is normally not the right thing to do. The team won't get any better. Then again UAB is NOT a normal school. It's fan base is small and fragile. UAB has to also be creative in ways to attract and even sign a new coach. I will agree that it will be best to NOT fire him mid season if we already have his replacement pretty much picked out and we are just waiting to the end of the season to strike a deal. (it's a Bowden).
That being said in UAB's case I think a mid season firing would be good for UAB in that Mackin needs to give the fan base some hope. Callaway is essentially a lame duck coach and why put off the inevitable. Firing him mid season sends a clear message not only to the UAB fan base but to UAB's detractors, enemies, media, the casual fan, and potential head coaches that UAB is dead serious about fielding a quality football program. It would also galvanize a fragile fan base and prevent some ugly scenes in front of about 5,000 people at Legion Field because if a change is not made, 5,000 is all that will be showing up.
Right now the UTEP game will be ugly. There will be t-shirts, banners, fans chanting fire the coach and it will resemble the end of the Brown Stain era. A coaching change mid-season will not only prevent the ugliness it may just rally the troops under Helton and in turn save the attendance for the season.
Again firing a coach mid-season is normally not the best thing to do but UAB is not a normal situation in case no one has noticed.
All that said I believe they won't make a mid-season change. I would.
(10-08-2010 11:32 PM)blazr Wrote: [ -> ]Firing a college coach in the middle of the season - barring moral, legal, ethical issues - just does no good.
Simply not true.
Words of advice: People will start taking your opinions seriously when you backup these outlandish assertions. Don't bite off more than you can chew. For example, if I can think one case where firing a coach in the middle of the season is a good idea, your assertion crumbles. A coach brings a gun to practice. Bam! Done and done. There are several football examples I can think of where team chemistry has been greatly enhanced by removing the poison at the top.
Try something a little less absolute. "Although I think it is generally a bad idea to fire a coach mid-season, I really feel strongly about it in this case that it would be bad. Heres why: ...." At that point I continue reading, interested in what makes you feel different/the same as I do. And it drives a thread in a positive direction and discussion.
Most want their posts to develop into something more than a broadcast, and no one wants their posts to be completely ignored (like we do with CajunBlazer). But a few more posts like this and you will be 100% a waste of read in my book.
It is ok to make contacts with potential new hc's, but now is not the right time IMO to make any change.
If you make moves like a-clowns right now, what coach would want to come to a program like that?
(10-09-2010 09:08 AM)TheFunk Wrote: [ -> ] (10-08-2010 11:32 PM)blazr Wrote: [ -> ]Firing a college coach in the middle of the season - barring moral, legal, ethical issues - just does no good.
Simply not true.
Words of advice: People will start taking your opinions seriously when you backup these outlandish assertions. Don't bite off more than you can chew. For example, if I can think one case where firing a coach in the middle of the season is a good idea, your assertion crumbles. A coach brings a gun to practice. Bam! Done and done. There are several football examples I can think of where team chemistry has been greatly enhanced by removing the poison at the top.
Try something a little less absolute. "Although I think it is generally a bad idea to fire a coach mid-season, I really feel strongly about it in this case that it would be bad. Heres why: ...." At that point I continue reading, interested in what makes you feel different/the same as I do. And it drives a thread in a positive direction and discussion.
Most want their posts to develop into something more than a broadcast, and no one wants their posts to be completely ignored (like we do with CajunBlazer). But a few more posts like this and you will be 100% a waste of read in my book.
Ok, I'll clarify: in the context of finding a great head coach for the next season, firing your current one in the middle of the year does no good. Most of the coaches we would/will be interviewing are currently employed. There are plenty of back room channels to go through to get everything ironed out. No coach or agent needs to see our coach get fired before they will talk about coming...it's just the way the profession works. As for the fans, they will probably stay away for the rest of the season but almost every one of them (plus some) will come back when the new coach is announced (assuming we hire the right guy).
BTW, I already made the disclaimer about legal, moral, or ethical issues. Your example of a coach bringing a gun to practice was unnecessary. Furthermore, I wouldn't suggest following the sentence, "A coach brings a gun to practice" with the word, "Bam!"
(10-09-2010 09:18 AM)blazr Wrote: [ -> ] (10-09-2010 09:08 AM)TheFunk Wrote: [ -> ] (10-08-2010 11:32 PM)blazr Wrote: [ -> ]Firing a college coach in the middle of the season - barring moral, legal, ethical issues - just does no good.
Simply not true.
Words of advice: People will start taking your opinions seriously when you backup these outlandish assertions. Don't bite off more than you can chew. For example, if I can think one case where firing a coach in the middle of the season is a good idea, your assertion crumbles. A coach brings a gun to practice. Bam! Done and done. There are several football examples I can think of where team chemistry has been greatly enhanced by removing the poison at the top.
Try something a little less absolute. "Although I think it is generally a bad idea to fire a coach mid-season, I really feel strongly about it in this case that it would be bad. Heres why: ...." At that point I continue reading, interested in what makes you feel different/the same as I do. And it drives a thread in a positive direction and discussion.
Most want their posts to develop into something more than a broadcast, and no one wants their posts to be completely ignored (like we do with CajunBlazer). But a few more posts like this and you will be 100% a waste of read in my book.
Ok, I'll clarify: in the context of finding a great head coach for the next season, firing your current one in the middle of the year does no good. Most of the coaches we would/will be interviewing are currently employed. There are plenty of back room channels to go through to get everything ironed out. No coach or agent needs to see our coach get fired before they will talk about coming...it's just the way the profession works. As for the fans, they will probably stay away for the rest of the season but almost every one of them (plus some) will come back when the new coach is announced (assuming we hire the right guy).
BTW, I already made the disclaimer about legal, moral, or ethical issues. Your example of a coach bringing a gun to practice was unnecessary. Furthermore, I wouldn't suggest following the sentence, "A coach brings a gun to practice" with the word, "Bam!"
Agreed on both counts. Unless a coach does what the GA AD did last year or something similar, there is no reason to even discuss making a change right now.
(10-09-2010 09:18 AM)blazr Wrote: [ -> ]Most of the coaches we would/will be interviewing are currently employed.
Really? You have the list of the people we will be interviewing? A decision to fire Bonehead has already been made?
blazr]There are plenty of back room channels to go through to get everything ironed out.[/quote]
I agree. So then it doesnt matter if the candidates are currently employed. We can still get to them through the back channels. And if these candidates know there is a vacancy, we will have a better idea of who is interested and sooner.
[quote='blazr Wrote:No coach or agent needs to see our coach get fired before they will talk about coming...it's just the way the profession works.
It's not a can or can't situation. It is a what's better situation. Do the advantages of a mid-season fire present enough of an advantage to outweigh the disadvantages? I refer you to the other thread where I outline some of the other considerations.
'blazr Wrote:.As for the fans, they will probably stay away for the rest of the season but almost every one of them (plus some) will come back when the new coach is announced (assuming we hire the right guy).
You are pretty quick to give a way a LOT of revenue this year. Revenue that UAB can't afford to be that dismissive about. But you are right, people are rejuvenated when a change is made and a new coach is hired. But isn't that a reason to make that change sooner than later?
(10-09-2010 12:12 AM)BlazerUnit Wrote: [ -> ] (10-08-2010 11:32 PM)blazr Wrote: [ -> ]Guys, chill. Stock up on brews, relax at Legion Field (or at your computer/TV if you're out of state), and enjoy the young men we have representing our university. Not only is it reactionary to call for a firing now (even if we don't win another game), it's 100 times more ridiculous calling for the heads of Mackin/Garrison because they don't make the change. Firing a college coach in the middle of the season - barring moral, legal, ethical issues - just does no good. It doesn't get you any farther ahead in the search for a replacement (those discussions take place behind the scenes with intermediate contacts anyway) and it puts a very bad taste in the mouths of potential hires in the coaching "fraternity."
If the confidence in a coach is lost, it is gone. There's no recovering it. And since you can't cancel the remainder of the season...I totally understand why those in charge pull the hook on coaches.
You cite Auburn, I cite Florida: When UF AD Jeremy Foley announced Ron Zook's firing in the middle of the 2004 season, he was quoted (paraphrasing), "What should be done eventually must be done immediately."
And as far as the coaching fraternity is concerned--I'm not worried abut that either. Those guys aren't sitting around shooting the **** like in the teacher's lounge. Everyone 'talks' until the checks and contracts are signed, and then they're out trying to keep them rolling in. And if there's one thing coaches like, it's paychecks.
UAB needs to start taking a few good risks to show its serious. The Blazers aren't going to make news with more football losses--maybe this program should make a few moves to show it wants to win.
agree,agree,let what fans we have left know were tired of incompetence.let him go now and avoid the rush,he has done nothing to merit keeping his deer in the headlights look any longer.
(10-09-2010 09:08 AM)TheFunk Wrote: [ -> ] (10-08-2010 11:32 PM)blazr Wrote: [ -> ]Firing a college coach in the middle of the season - barring moral, legal, ethical issues - just does no good.
Simply not true.
Words of advice: People will start taking your opinions seriously when you backup these outlandish assertions. Don't bite off more than you can chew. For example, if I can think one case where firing a coach in the middle of the season is a good idea, your assertion crumbles. A coach brings a gun to practice. Bam! Done and done. There are several football examples I can think of where team chemistry has been greatly enhanced by removing the poison at the top.
Try something a little less absolute. "Although I think it is generally a bad idea to fire a coach mid-season, I really feel strongly about it in this case that it would be bad. Heres why: ...." At that point I continue reading, interested in what makes you feel different/the same as I do. And it drives a thread in a positive direction and discussion.
Most want their posts to develop into something more than a broadcast, and no one wants their posts to be completely ignored (like we do with CajunBlazer). But a few more posts like this and you will be 100% a waste of read in my book.
He's been there for a while for many of us.
[quote='TheFunk' pid='5790821' dateline='1286636915'
You are pretty quick to give a way a LOT of revenue this year. Revenue that UAB can't afford to be that dismissive about. But you are right, people are rejuvenated when a change is made and a new coach is hired. But isn't that a reason to make that change sooner than later?
[/quote]
Revenue in football is made before the season ever starts (at least 80-90% of it is). That's season tickets, donations, student fees, advertising, conference contracts (bowls and TV), etc. Having 5,000 people at the November games because everyone is pissed will look bad, but it won't change our bottom line one bit. As long as something is done to bring back the donors, season ticket buyers, and advertisers before the next football season then our bottom line won't change.
(10-09-2010 09:16 AM)the_blazerman Wrote: [ -> ]It is ok to make contacts with potential new hc's, but now is not the right time IMO to make any change.
If you make moves like a-clowns right now, what coach would want to come to a program like that?
Competent coaches are proactive. So are competent college administrators.
I'm really not advocating that Neil Callaway be fired at once, but he's had 41 games to figure things out. He's had a fair amount of time to perfect and perform. He isn't getting it done.
What makes you think that Mackin and Garrison (and hell, CNC himself) don't know that as well as we do?
Fire him now. Avoid the rush.
I cannot think of one good thing that can happen keeping Callaway employed at this point. I can think of many positives if he is fired right now. Again, it won't happen but I can dream.
(10-09-2010 01:08 PM)ATTALLABLAZE Wrote: [ -> ]Fire him now. Avoid the rush.
I cannot think of one good thing that can happen keeping Callaway employed at this point. I can think of many positives if he is fired right now. Again, it won't happen but I can dream.
I tend to agree with you. I want to say be fair and allow him to coach until it's mathematically impossible for us to make a bowl. But what if that happens? Then are pretty much morally obligated to keep him at least one more season. I'm pretty much to the point where he could win the rest of the games on our schedule this season, and I'd still want him gone. He instills absolutely no confidence in me. Even if you excuse his first 2 seasons, he only has a 6-11 (~35% win percentage) record over the last two years, with teams that both have had the talent to make it to a measly dot.com at the absolute worst.. He has underperformed worse than I ever thought possible. I know UAB football is in a tough situation in many regards, but there's no reason you can't have a team that can win 6-7 games and get to bowls every couple of years (at least, but I would hope for more than that).