I see about 8 to 9 league losses, maybe 1 or 2 OCC losses, so I'll guess 10 losses, I think this year will be another transition year, they lose a lot of offense, theyll be better on defense, chemistry will be better (I hope), the problem is whats been the problem for a while, the league is a killer league, I do feel this bunch is more of team that fits Mick's style of play. I hope they surprise me, make me look like a fool
(09-19-2010 11:27 AM)icehole3 Wrote: [ -> ]I see about 8 to 9 league losses, maybe 1 or 2 OCC losses, so I'll guess 10 losses, I think this year will be another transition year, they lose a lot of offense, theyll be better on defense, chemistry will be better (I hope), the problem is whats been the problem for a while, the league is a killer league, I do feel this bunch is more of team that fits Mick's style of play. I hope they surprise me, make me look like a fool
Count me as one of the people who is trying to figure out exactly what kind of style of play that Cronin is trying to institute.
I mean I have heard him say that he wants to implement a running/pressing style- but never seems to be able to commit to that. Whether it's bringing in guys like Gates/McClain/Toyloy who don't fit that style well, or whether he just can't get the guys to play it effectively- who knows?
So far, this is what I have seen out of Cronin's teams:
1) Above average rebounding
2) decent half-court defense (when motivated or certain individuals are on the floor, but also expect lapses)
3) Below average half court offense that is frequently stagnant.
4) Inablility to create easy buckets in the transition game.
5) Late game meltdowns / mental errors.
Other than the defense and rebounding, that are reasonably good- the team has no offensive philosophy or style that is noticeable, imo.
(09-19-2010 07:35 AM)Bearcatbdub Wrote: [ -> ]This schedule is surprisingly weak through the first handful of games, but I don't have a problem with that.
Particularly since this will be a relatively young team
(edit: not trying to make excuses for Cronin, here)
I'd say this is a veteran team. Lots o upperclassman and experience.
(09-19-2010 11:51 AM)Bearcatbdub Wrote: [ -> ]Count me as one of the people who is trying to figure out exactly what kind of style of play that Cronin is trying to institute.
I mean I have heard him say that he wants to implement a running/pressing style- but never seems to be able to commit to that. Whether it's bringing in guys like Gates/McClain/Toyloy who don't fit that style well, or whether he just can't get the guys to play it effectively- who knows?
So far, this is what I have seen out of Cronin's teams:
1) Above average rebounding
2) decent half-court defense (when motivated or certain individuals are on the floor, but also expect lapses)
3) Below average half court offense that is frequently stagnant.
4) Inablility to create easy buckets in the transition game.
5) Late game meltdowns / mental errors.
Other than the defense and rebounding, that are reasonably good- the team has no offensive philosophy or style that is noticeable, imo.
right on the nose.
He also coaches not to lose rather then to win. As soon as his team gets a little lead, he starts taking out his hot players so they won't get into foul trouble. It's a momentum killer.
I've also notice that Gates often don't post up. Even when we have the ball he is trying to fight for a rebounding position. We'd be better if mick let one player be the main scoring option while the rest of the team went after rebounds. He had the perfect team for it last season.
Thread split for subject branching. Not pointing a finger, it's just that the subject started changing. Carry on.
(09-19-2010 05:25 PM)b Wrote: [ -> ] (09-19-2010 07:35 AM)Bearcatbdub Wrote: [ -> ]This schedule is surprisingly weak through the first handful of games, but I don't have a problem with that.
Particularly since this will be a relatively young team (edit: not trying to make excuses for Cronin, here)
I'd say this is a veteran team. Lots o upperclassman and experience.
(09-19-2010 11:51 AM)Bearcatbdub Wrote: [ -> ]Count me as one of the people who is trying to figure out exactly what kind of style of play that Cronin is trying to institute.
I mean I have heard him say that he wants to implement a running/pressing style- but never seems to be able to commit to that. Whether it's bringing in guys like Gates/McClain/Toyloy who don't fit that style well, or whether he just can't get the guys to play it effectively- who knows?
So far, this is what I have seen out of Cronin's teams:
1) Above average rebounding
2) decent half-court defense (when motivated or certain individuals are on the floor, but also expect lapses)
3) Below average half court offense that is frequently stagnant.
4) Inablility to create easy buckets in the transition game.
5) Late game meltdowns / mental errors.
Other than the defense and rebounding, that are reasonably good- the team has no offensive philosophy or style that is noticeable, imo.
right on the nose.
He also coaches not to lose rather then to win. As soon as his team gets a little lead, he starts taking out his hot players so they won't get into foul trouble. It's a momentum killer.
I've also notice that Gates often don't post up. Even when we have the ball he is trying to fight for a rebounding position. We'd be better if mick let one player be the main scoring option while the rest of the team went after rebounds. He had the perfect team for it last season.
Mick has never been one to stick with anything.
I agree about him saying he wants to be a pressing team. So they will do it early in the season, struggle with it, and Mick gives up on it. Where is the teaching and learning, and expectation of improvement? It's like he says we suck at this and will never get better......and he gives up. He does that in alot of areas.
Just one time, under Mick, I would like to see the team and individual players show improvement in an area. Whether it be Yancy's rebounding improve, or Yancy posting up properly, or Yancy playing defense with quicker feet, etc..........and other guys improving on their weaknesses, and the team coming together as a unit on defense and having an offensive style. I never seem to see any of that and it totally frustrates me and saps my hope that this team will ever be anything but mediocre.
Mick is a tight man to man defense and no turnover type of guy. That's great but cash is an uptempo player. putting him in a half court offense handicaps him.
Our guys don't gamble for steals, they stay between their man and the rim. So those who think jackson is gonna be some new kmart and swatting shots can forget it. Our style won't give him much chance to. We can't go out and sign studs (oops, time to split this into a recruiting thread) but he should at least be able to identify the players who suit his style of play.
I think the saddest part will be mick trying to tell us how good these non conference opponents are.
I think it's nice of BJ to split these off so you and Chatter get an opportunity to discuss new perspectives.
(09-19-2010 09:36 PM)b Wrote: [ -> ]share the toothbrush?
Be careful OUCH. You don't want rath to declare you the 3rd person on this board who's lost faith in mick.
It's hard to have faith in a program where the results of the last few years have been below average, and the pipeline of talent coming in looks below average for the conference in which we are competing.
I really thought that last year, the team would make a little noise in the Big East. And they made very little noise.
I'm not sure how Mick can sell the team this year, trying to rationalize it by saying the chemistry will be better after losing his two leading scorers, one of which was NBA talent. And replacing them with a couple of project big men.
My expectations for this season are really low, and if they somehow put together a decent season (making the tournament). I will be astonished.
It's really going to take someone stepping up (Parker, Wright, Bishop, or Kilpatrick- somebody) and taking over the main scoring role, and then have Yancy start playing up to his potential IN EVERY GAME. I think these are fairly monumental achievements. On top of that, the team will need to start playing better offensively as a whole, and maintain the same defensive/rebounding intensity.
Does anyone really see this happening?
(09-20-2010 06:16 AM)Bearcatbdub Wrote: [ -> ] (09-19-2010 09:36 PM)b Wrote: [ -> ]share the toothbrush?
Be careful OUCH. You don't want rath to declare you the 3rd person on this board who's lost faith in mick.
It's hard to have faith in a program where the results of the last few years have been below average, and the pipeline of talent coming in looks below average for the conference in which we are competing.
I really thought that last year, the team would make a little noise in the Big East. And they made very little noise.
I'm not sure how Mick can sell the team this year, trying to rationalize it by saying the chemistry will be better after losing his two leading scorers, one of which was NBA talent. And replacing them with a couple of project big men.
My expectations for this season are really low, and if they somehow put together a decent season (making the tournament). I will be astonished.
It's really going to take someone stepping up (Parker, Wright, Bishop, or Kilpatrick- somebody) and taking over the main scoring role, and then have Yancy start playing up to his potential IN EVERY GAME. I think these are fairly monumental achievements. On top of that, the team will need to start playing better offensively as a whole, and maintain the same defensive/rebounding intensity.
Does anyone really see this happening?
In the past, what we've seen, is a role player guy suddenly put his offensive game together and step up in his junior and senior years.
Kenyon was mostly defense and rebounding, and then he emerged offensively his junior and senior years.
Hicks did the same his junior and senior years.
Bobby Brannen became a man his senior year.
Steve Logan's junior and senior seasons.
I'm sure there are plenty of other examples.
It's going to take a player stepping out of the shadows of his past seasons at UC, and emerging as a go-to-guy, to get this team past mediocre. And in the Big East, it's going to take several guys having this transformation.
I just hope we can see something else besides a pass or two and then a bad three pointer that's usually a brick......
Well, in an effort to have a true discussion..........and factoring in that I've paid less attention to the roster this year.....
1. Who do we have down low to back up Ibrahima Thomas and Yancy? Don't say McClain. Are we counting solely on the two frosh?
2. Who will start at PG? Cash or Jaquon? Or will we go with the 2-headed PG monster?
3. I guess with Bishop back, Kilpatrick comes off the bench at the SF position?
4. Is Wilks in the mix at all for starting at any position.
Seriously. I'm still in last year mode. Any serious input is appreciated. It might even get my basketball chops going a little too.
(09-21-2010 12:00 PM)Vottomatic Wrote: [ -> ]Well, in an effort to have a true discussion..........and factoring in that I've paid less attention to the roster this year.....
1. Who do we have down low to back up Ibrahima Thomas and Yancy? Don't say McClain. Are we counting solely on the two frosh?
2. Who will start at PG? Cash or Jaquon? Or will we go with the 2-headed PG monster?
3. I guess with Bishop back, Kilpatrick comes off the bench at the SF position?
4. Is Wilks in the mix at all for starting at any position.
Seriously. I'm still in last year mode. Any serious input is appreciated. It might even get my basketball chops going a little too.
1. Thomas and Gates will see a lot of time. I expect them to get get rest by putting Jackson and McClain in for very short spurts that coincide with TV timeouts. The other option is to use Wilks or Bishop at the 4.
2. Cash will start. They want to use Parker off the ball more. He will back up Cash, but most of his minutes will come from the 2 or 3 spot.
3. Expect Parker and Kilpatrick to spell Bishop at the 3 spot.
4. Unlikely. There is no spot on the floor where he is the best option.
1) I think the goal is to have jackson be good enough to spell thomas and gates. Hard for me to see thomas and gates playing side by side with no other players able to contribute off the bench.
2) cash will probably start. Parker at some point will overtake him
3) kilpatrick went from secret weapon stud to coming off the bench?
4) If jackson can't cut it (or not eligible) I see wilks starting and thomas off the bench.
I'm not saying these are the best plays, it's just what I see happening.
No way does Parker overtake Cash at the point. The coaches want to play him at the 2 and 3 spots. He will be used as a backup to Cash, but will not be the primary option at the 1.
Also, no way Thomas comes off the bench. I'd say he is one of the guys you can comfortably put down in ink.
Kilpatrick will be on the floor when the ball goes up for tip.
I have to say I thought Parker was more effective at the point than Cash down the stretch and at MSG. Have to see how that one plays out as the season unfolds.
The condition of Cash's knee will the big determinant of his playing time.
(09-21-2010 03:29 PM)JackieTreehorn Wrote: [ -> ]The condition of Cash's knee will the big determinant of his playing time.
He got more than 30 minutes in the final game in Canada. I think he will be fine.
(09-21-2010 03:10 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]Also, no way Thomas comes off the bench. I'd say he is one of the guys you can comfortably put down in ink.
Kilpatrick will be on the floor when the ball goes up for tip.
I have to say I thought Parker was more effective at the point than Cash down the stretch and at MSG. Have to see how that one plays out as the season unfolds.
Davis and Dixon saw a lot of minutes in Canada, theyll be in the mix quite a bit too.
(09-21-2010 03:59 PM)icehole3 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-21-2010 03:10 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]Also, no way Thomas comes off the bench. I'd say he is one of the guys you can comfortably put down in ink.
Kilpatrick will be on the floor when the ball goes up for tip.
I have to say I thought Parker was more effective at the point than Cash down the stretch and at MSG. Have to see how that one plays out as the season unfolds.
Davis and Dixon saw a lot of minutes in Canada, theyll be in the mix quite a bit too.
Last year the two combined to shoot 34-147 (23%) from 3-pt range. Hopefully they either improve or just stop shooting 3's all together.