You figure out what you're going to do before you recruit him. When Mbakwe was recruited, the whole situation was laid out for Raines, including all the charges, the evidence, the alibis, the character references...EVERYTHING. Raines needed to make a decision and stick with it. She had two very simple choices.
1. Accept Mbakwe with the proviso that he would not be allowed to play if he was found to be guilty.
2. Not accept Mbakwe.
Either choice would have been fine. If Raines doesn't want Pastner to touch Mbakwe, he stops recruiting him, DOESN'T WASTE HOURS AND HOURS OF HIS PRECIOUS TIME; and everything is fine. If Raines says we will accept Mbakwe, with the knowledge that the outcome would be in the books by August; then we had nothing to lose.
Instead, Raines says it's fine; Pastner recruits the living $hit out of Mbakwe and gets a commitment from him...and Raines changes her mind. The product of this is that it makes absolutely no difference in public perception. We are looked upon as a school that was recruiting Mbakwe and would have accepted him, and that we simply lost him.
By changing her mind, Raines showed an incredible lack of respect towards Pastner, and wasted a massive amount of his time, that he could have been spending recruiting someone that the school would actually allow on campus.
Or, she said go ahead and recruit him and I'll think about it and Pastner continued to press her for a decision and she told him she hadn't decided. Then at the crucial point she decided no. This is how my employer operates.
(08-14-2010 02:32 AM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ]You figure out what you're going to do before you recruit him. When Mbakwe was recruited, the whole situation was laid out for Raines, including all the charges, the evidence, the alibis, the character references...EVERYTHING. Raines needed to make a decision and stick with it. She had two very simple choices.
1. Accept Mbakwe with the proviso that he would not be allowed to play if he was found to be guilty.
2. Not accept Mbakwe.
Either choice would have been fine. If Raines doesn't want Pastner to touch Mbakwe, he stops recruiting him, DOESN'T WASTE HOURS AND HOURS OF HIS PRECIOUS TIME; and everything is fine. If Raines says we will accept Mbakwe, with the knowledge that the outcome would be in the books by August; then we had nothing to lose.
Instead, Raines says it's fine; Pastner recruits the living $hit out of Mbakwe and gets a commitment from him...and Raines changes her mind. The product of this is that it makes absolutely no difference in public perception. We are looked upon as a school that was recruiting Mbakwe and would have accepted him, and that we simply lost him.
By changing her mind, Raines showed an incredible lack of respect towards Pastner, and wasted a massive amount of his time, that he could have been spending recruiting someone that the school would actually allow on campus.
How do you really know that's how it went down?
(08-14-2010 06:58 AM)SouthavenTiger Wrote: [ -> ]Or, she said go ahead and recruit him and I'll think about it and Pastner continued to press her for a decision and she told him she hadn't decided. Then at the crucial point she decided no. This is how my employer operates.
well, if she did that, then she still allowed us to have the so called rogue image just by recruiting him
if you're going to reject anyone who is accused of a crime even though there is no evidence, then that is an easy position to figure out, and you just do it.
I think it's a stupid policy, but if you're not going to base your decision on what the evidence and the actual case looks like, then it would take no time to think about it or figure it out.
if she allowed it and then rejected it, that is weak minded and lacking in courage, and doesn't accomplish the only possible goal of keeping our name from being associated with someone accused of a crime.
that would be both weak and ineffective.
the strong approach would have been to either say "we won't accept anyone accused of a crime" and take whatever heat there might be for equating accusation with guilt,
or
to say "we look at things on a case by case basis and we do not believe there is a case, but if he is guilty he will be dismissed" and take the same heat about "thugs" that we took just for recruiting him. the difference is that in that case you would actually stand up for a principle of innocence and show a common sense ability to evaluate accusations.
(08-14-2010 06:58 AM)SouthavenTiger Wrote: [ -> ]Or, she said go ahead and recruit him and I'll think about it and Pastner continued to press her for a decision and she told him she hadn't decided. Then at the crucial point she decided no. This is how my employer operates.
Just a friendly thing...
there is NO anonymity on the internet. Unemployment is at or near 10%. Lots of people in the Memphis area read these boards. Be careful, my friend.
(08-14-2010 02:32 AM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ]You figure out what you're going to do before you recruit him. When Mbakwe was recruited, the whole situation was laid out for Raines, including all the charges, the evidence, the alibis, the character references...EVERYTHING. Raines needed to make a decision and stick with it. She had two very simple choices.
1. Accept Mbakwe with the proviso that he would not be allowed to play if he was found to be guilty.
2. Not accept Mbakwe.
Either choice would have been fine. If Raines doesn't want Pastner to touch Mbakwe, he stops recruiting him, DOESN'T WASTE HOURS AND HOURS OF HIS PRECIOUS TIME; and everything is fine. If Raines says we will accept Mbakwe, with the knowledge that the outcome would be in the books by August; then we had nothing to lose.
Instead, Raines says it's fine; Pastner recruits the living $hit out of Mbakwe and gets a commitment from him...and Raines changes her mind. The product of this is that it makes absolutely no difference in public perception. We are looked upon as a school that was recruiting Mbakwe and would have accepted him, and that we simply lost him.
By changing her mind, Raines showed an incredible lack of respect towards Pastner, and wasted a massive amount of his time, that he could have been spending recruiting someone that the school would actually allow on campus.
This is a great post and I totally agree up to the part of her changing her mind. I'll admit I haven't kept up with it that closely but from the post I'm assuming Dr. Raines at some point was OK with Josh recruiting him and later switched her position? If true what a shame.
Stammers, you always seem to be whining about something. Why would the University of Memphis NOT want to sign Mbakwe?
If you have followed along with this case, he was charged with violently attacking a woman. She had a fractured cheek and a ruptured sinus, which required surgery. She immediately identified the suspect as Mbakwe (from an internet picture and a lineup). Shortly afterward, Mbakwe split town because he was "being threatened."
Did he do it? Obviously, we don't know. It turns quickly into a "he said - she said" situation. There were no witnesses. Evidence is obviously lacking and a with a good attorney, this has an excellent chance of dismissal. There was some talk about improper police work, etc.
With that said, due to the size of the individual, there are limited suspects. There are a couple of alibis, one works for the University of Memphis. Were they actually with him at 3AM?
If Mbakwe fulfills the court order, he will not have a record for the offense. This happens often when the prosecution has sketchy evidence and when the suspect has an attorney. Even if I was innocent, I might have taken this deal as well. While we all want to clear our name, once it goes to trial, you never know the outcome.
My guess is that he did in fact commit the crime. She identified him and was "100 % sure" that it was Mbakwe. While he didn't get tried, his actions are suspicious. I am glad he isn't coming here. I want good players, but I don't want any more of thugs playing for Memphis. If Raines gave him the boot, good for her...
(08-14-2010 07:16 AM)tigerbmw Wrote: [ -> ] (08-14-2010 02:32 AM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ]You figure out what you're going to do before you recruit him. When Mbakwe was recruited, the whole situation was laid out for Raines, including all the charges, the evidence, the alibis, the character references...EVERYTHING. Raines needed to make a decision and stick with it. She had two very simple choices.
1. Accept Mbakwe with the proviso that he would not be allowed to play if he was found to be guilty.
2. Not accept Mbakwe.
Either choice would have been fine. If Raines doesn't want Pastner to touch Mbakwe, he stops recruiting him, DOESN'T WASTE HOURS AND HOURS OF HIS PRECIOUS TIME; and everything is fine. If Raines says we will accept Mbakwe, with the knowledge that the outcome would be in the books by August; then we had nothing to lose.
Instead, Raines says it's fine; Pastner recruits the living $hit out of Mbakwe and gets a commitment from him...and Raines changes her mind. The product of this is that it makes absolutely no difference in public perception. We are looked upon as a school that was recruiting Mbakwe and would have accepted him, and that we simply lost him.
By changing her mind, Raines showed an incredible lack of respect towards Pastner, and wasted a massive amount of his time, that he could have been spending recruiting someone that the school would actually allow on campus.
How do you really know that's how it went down?
He dosent
(08-14-2010 12:13 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote: [ -> ]Stammers, you always seem to be whining about something. Why would the University of Memphis NOT want to sign Mbakwe?
If you have followed along with this case, he was charged with violently attacking a woman. She had a fractured cheek and a ruptured sinus, which required surgery. She immediately identified the suspect as Mbakwe (from an internet picture and a lineup). Shortly afterward, Mbakwe split town because he was "being threatened."
Did he do it? Obviously, we don't know. It turns quickly into a "he said - she said" situation. There were no witnesses. Evidence is obviously lacking and a with a good attorney, this has an excellent chance of dismissal. There was some talk about improper police work, etc.
With that said, due to the size of the individual, there are limited suspects. There are a couple of alibis, one works for the University of Memphis. Were they actually with him at 3AM?
If Mbakwe fulfills the court order, he will not have a record for the offense. This happens often when the prosecution has sketchy evidence and when the suspect has an attorney. Even if I was innocent, I might have taken this deal as well. While we all want to clear our name, once it goes to trial, you never know the outcome.
My guess is that he did in fact commit the crime. She identified him and was "100 % sure" that it was Mbakwe. While he didn't get tried, his actions are suspicious. I am glad he isn't coming here. I want good players, but I don't want any more of thugs playing for Memphis. If Raines gave him the boot, good for her...
apparently you are unaware of the fact that very similar attacks (approaching from behind on a bicycle at 3 AM similar enough?) have occurred a couple of miles directly north of MDCC since Mbakwe has been in Minnesota. Those attacks are believed to be committed by the same individual, a large black male. While the police sketches that were released differ somewhat from each other, each of them bears some resemblance to Mbakwe (eyes, cheekbones, etc).
in Mbakwe's case the victim id'd him from the MDCC web site because her friends gave her the idea that it had to be one of those players since they lived in the complex. big surprise that she then identified the same person from a police photo lineup that she previously chose from the selection of team pictures offered to her by her friends.
I don't blame the victim, but her friends messed up the process and set it up to be a classic case of mistaken identity, jumping to assumptions rather than letting the police do their job. would she have made the same id? we will never know. but the subsequent attacks completely destroys your limited pool of suspects theory. in fact, the limited pool of suspects could just as easily be the cause of a mistaken identity by focusing attention only on basketball players. if the other attacker was known to police, then the sketches provided would be enough for them to bring that person in for a lineup on those cases. the fact is that there is an unknown suspect on the loose and unknown to Miami PD whose actions fit this case much better than any other actions anyone knows of re Mbakwe.
you are right about taking the deal even if you are innocent, because it is precisely the fact that people would "guess" that he committed the crime based on an id with faulty methodology and assumptions about "suspicious" actions, like getting out of town when threatened (threats were documented as part of the case, but some people apparently still believe that is suspicious, and a jury might believe that if they wanted to)
I don't believe in calling someone a thug unless there is a legitimate reason for believing that. In this case, there are many many reasons to believe that it is a false accusation.
If Raines pulled the plug, it is ONLY because she didn't have the courage to stand up to people who trade on innuendo and assumptions.
not to mention that if he had been accepted here even with his case not resolved, he might have chosen to fight for his innocence even given the slim chance of conviction by a mistaken jury, if he were still going to be able to play if there were more delays.
however, if he was actually rejected by Raines unless he was cleared of all charges, then he would have no choice but to take the diversion if he wanted to be sure he could play this year and move on with his life.
(08-14-2010 01:51 PM)lenetzach Wrote: [ -> ] (08-14-2010 12:13 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote: [ -> ]Stammers, you always seem to be whining about something. Why would the University of Memphis NOT want to sign Mbakwe?
If you have followed along with this case, he was charged with violently attacking a woman. She had a fractured cheek and a ruptured sinus, which required surgery. She immediately identified the suspect as Mbakwe (from an internet picture and a lineup). Shortly afterward, Mbakwe split town because he was "being threatened."
Did he do it? Obviously, we don't know. It turns quickly into a "he said - she said" situation. There were no witnesses. Evidence is obviously lacking and a with a good attorney, this has an excellent chance of dismissal. There was some talk about improper police work, etc.
With that said, due to the size of the individual, there are limited suspects. There are a couple of alibis, one works for the University of Memphis. Were they actually with him at 3AM?
If Mbakwe fulfills the court order, he will not have a record for the offense. This happens often when the prosecution has sketchy evidence and when the suspect has an attorney. Even if I was innocent, I might have taken this deal as well. While we all want to clear our name, once it goes to trial, you never know the outcome.
My guess is that he did in fact commit the crime. She identified him and was "100 % sure" that it was Mbakwe. While he didn't get tried, his actions are suspicious. I am glad he isn't coming here. I want good players, but I don't want any more of thugs playing for Memphis. If Raines gave him the boot, good for her...
apparently you are unaware of the fact that very similar attacks (approaching from behind on a bicycle at 3 AM similar enough?) have occurred a couple of miles directly north of MDCC since Mbakwe has been in Minnesota. Those attacks are believed to be committed by the same individual, a large black male. While the police sketches that were released differ somewhat from each other, each of them bears some resemblance to Mbakwe (eyes, cheekbones, etc).
in Mbakwe's case the victim id'd him from the MDCC web site because her friends gave her the idea that it had to be one of those players since they lived in the complex. big surprise that she then identified the same person from a police photo lineup that she previously chose from the selection of team pictures offered to her by her friends.
I don't blame the victim, but her friends messed up the process and set it up to be a classic case of mistaken identity, jumping to assumptions rather than letting the police do their job. would she have made the same id? we will never know. but the subsequent attacks completely destroys your limited pool of suspects theory. in fact, the limited pool of suspects could just as easily be the cause of a mistaken identity by focusing attention only on basketball players. if the other attacker was known to police, then the sketches provided would be enough for them to bring that person in for a lineup on those cases. the fact is that there is an unknown suspect on the loose and unknown to Miami PD whose actions fit this case much better than any other actions anyone knows of re Mbakwe.
you are right about taking the deal even if you are innocent, because it is precisely the fact that people would "guess" that he committed the crime based on an id with faulty methodology and assumptions about "suspicious" actions, like getting out of town when threatened (threats were documented as part of the case, but some people apparently still believe that is suspicious, and a jury might believe that if they wanted to)
I don't believe in calling someone a thug unless there is a legitimate reason for believing that. In this case, there are many many reasons to believe that it is a false accusation.
If Raines pulled the plug, it is ONLY because she didn't have the courage to stand up to people who trade on innuendo and assumptions.
I don't know the facts, but can have my own opinion. Did I think OJ killed his wife? I do, but he was not convicted for the offense. While there were some issues with the police work (not unusual), she identified Mbakwe. It was 3 AM, it was dark. Could she have been wrong? Of course.
It is extremely difficult to convict in these cases where there are no witnesses and the burden of proof is difficult to attain. Defense attorneys can certainly confuse the matter. Was she under the influence, has she ever been? What was she doing out at 3 AM? Has she dated basketball players before? Has she ever used the N word? You get the point.
I find it difficult to believe that Mbakwe (a big dude) was actually so afraid that he had to high tail it out of state. Not to say it isn't possible though.
There will always be doubt, but people escape justice often in these situations. 100% identification and leaving Florida in a hurry tend to make me believe he is guilty... Only two people probably really know, Mbakwe and the victim...
We've taken people of questionable pasts before (more so in football), but this was a serious crime that was committed. I don't blame the university for not accepting him. But, in the end, he wasn't convicted. In the eyes of the law, he did not commit the crime.
(08-14-2010 02:13 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know the facts, but can have my own opinion.
that's the ticket! i'll take opinions over facts any day.
tiger-viper
(08-14-2010 02:38 PM)tiger-viper Wrote: [ -> ] (08-14-2010 02:13 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know the facts, but can have my own opinion.
that's the ticket! i'll take opinions over facts any day.
tiger-viper
Then you tell me the facts. The facts are: 1. A woman severely beaten positively (100% sure) identified him. 2. He left town in a hurry shortly after.
I form an opinion based on said facts. I think he did it. If he were playing for Kentucky you would probably see it that way too. I want a winning team also, but not dudes that are violent criminals.
(08-14-2010 04:18 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-14-2010 02:38 PM)tiger-viper Wrote: [ -> ] (08-14-2010 02:13 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know the facts, but can have my own opinion.
that's the ticket! i'll take opinions over facts any day.
tiger-viper
Then you tell me the facts. The facts are: 1. A woman severely beaten positively (100% sure) identified him. 2. He left town in a hurry shortly after.
I form an opinion based on said facts. I think he did it. If he were playing for Kentucky you would probably see it that way too. I want a winning team also, but not dudes that are violent criminals.
Even the police mistakenly identified him as Darnell Dodson on TWO seperate occasions... with a picture in hand. The victim identified him from a two inch thumbnail on a webpage. None of this was going to hold up in court --- he took the deal to move on and not risk anything. The prosecutor came to him with the plea because the case was very thin.
I hope you have never been on a jury panel before --- Just because there is a victim in the crime and a suspect leaves town, he is automatically guilty? He called his mother about leaving town because he was receiving death threats. Since he was a known athlete in the area, it wasn't hard to find him. Of course, that could be a made up story --- but there is no evidence in this case against him that would hold up in court.
The burden of proof can be difficult in these cases. There was no video, dna, or witnesses. It was her word against his. Even cases that were fairly obvious (think OJ) can be skewed by competent attorneys. Their job is to discredit the victim, police, etc. While there was very little hard evidence, if a jury believes the victim, a conviction can result. Form your own opinion. No one in jail has ever done anything wrong, just ask them. I tend to believe the victim, she was convinced it was Mbakwe. Like I said, there are only two people that know for sure, Mbakwe and the victim....
(08-14-2010 04:53 PM)Tigers2BeChamps Wrote: [ -> ] (08-14-2010 04:18 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-14-2010 02:38 PM)tiger-viper Wrote: [ -> ] (08-14-2010 02:13 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know the facts, but can have my own opinion.
that's the ticket! i'll take opinions over facts any day.
tiger-viper
Then you tell me the facts. The facts are: 1. A woman severely beaten positively (100% sure) identified him. 2. He left town in a hurry shortly after.
I form an opinion based on said facts. I think he did it. If he were playing for Kentucky you would probably see it that way too. I want a winning team also, but not dudes that are violent criminals.
Even the police mistakenly identified him as Darnell Dodson on TWO seperate occasions... with a picture in hand. The victim identified him from a two inch thumbnail on a webpage. None of this was going to hold up in court --- he took the deal to move on and not risk anything. The prosecutor came to him with the plea because the case was very thin.
I hope you have never been on a jury panel before --- Just because there is a victim in the crime and a suspect leaves town, he is automatically guilty? He called his mother about leaving town because he was receiving death threats. Since he was a known athlete in the area, it wasn't hard to find him. Of course, that could be a made up story --- but there is no evidence in this case against him that would hold up in court.
Darnell Dodson? I think not. It was his brother Antoine. Check out the videos... This is good...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZKXAFqdl...re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrWu13Uh2...re=related
(08-14-2010 06:22 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-14-2010 04:53 PM)Tigers2BeChamps Wrote: [ -> ] (08-14-2010 04:18 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-14-2010 02:38 PM)tiger-viper Wrote: [ -> ] (08-14-2010 02:13 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know the facts, but can have my own opinion.
that's the ticket! i'll take opinions over facts any day.
tiger-viper
Then you tell me the facts. The facts are: 1. A woman severely beaten positively (100% sure) identified him. 2. He left town in a hurry shortly after.
I form an opinion based on said facts. I think he did it. If he were playing for Kentucky you would probably see it that way too. I want a winning team also, but not dudes that are violent criminals.
Even the police mistakenly identified him as Darnell Dodson on TWO seperate occasions... with a picture in hand. The victim identified him from a two inch thumbnail on a webpage. None of this was going to hold up in court --- he took the deal to move on and not risk anything. The prosecutor came to him with the plea because the case was very thin.
I hope you have never been on a jury panel before --- Just because there is a victim in the crime and a suspect leaves town, he is automatically guilty? He called his mother about leaving town because he was receiving death threats. Since he was a known athlete in the area, it wasn't hard to find him. Of course, that could be a made up story --- but there is no evidence in this case against him that would hold up in court.
Darnell Dodson? I think not. It was his brother Antoine. Check out the videos... This is good...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZKXAFqdl...re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrWu13Uh2...re=related
Oh man that was funny as a MUG!!! Cracking up man dang!!
I take it all back. I ain't nothing. That right there is cutting edge reporting. I don't even deserve to watch stuff like that. The song is awesome. This is the new world order. Dang.
jamammy,
That one was for you!
"He's climbing in yo window, he's snatching yo people up..."
(08-14-2010 08:24 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote: [ -> ]jamammy,
That one was for you!
"He's climbing in yo window, he's snatching yo people up..."
I know when I'm beat. First off, the dude in the original news video should be a dam star and I am very surprised that the news station is real and showed that footage. That's a trip. Second, that song and the dude who made it, pure genius.