CSNbbs

I wonder all your opinions on something niuco90 posted in the thread "And the Dominoes begin to Fall" It pains me to post this, but it's something that the MAC and the NIU need to be proactive about.

Let's just play the hypothetical game for a second. Let's say that the PAC-10, Big Ten, ACC and SEC all become power conferences with 16 teams as some are predicting (this supposes not only the break up of the Big 12, but the break up of the Big East into a catholic league for just basketball schools. After this break up the SEC would take the best of the ACC to reach 16, and the Big East football programs would join the ACC). Can the MAC, and NIU, survive in the FBS? Not only from a stand point of competition, but simply fiscally can these programs survive?

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/n...nances.htm is a good tool to examine this question. It's not the end all be all, but it gives a picture.

For example: The Huskies' total operating expenses for 2008-2009 was $23,770,449.39.

Here's the rest of the MAC schools

Ohio - $21,893,603.00
Miami (Ohio) - $24,818,228.00
Akron - $20,124,113.00
Buffalo - $25,942,006.38
Kent State - $17,179,520.00
Bowling Green - $18,138,104.00
(Not including Temple as they only play football)

Toledo - $19,330,595.00
Western Michigan - $24,545,495.00
Central Michigan - $22,418,292.00
Eastern Michigan - $23,615,132.00
Ball State - $19,616,773.00

First thing that is telling is NIU is fourth in total operating expenses (only Buffalo, Miami (Ohio) and Western Michigan spend more), but finished second to last in the Reese cup and last in the Jacoby cup. Needless to say that's not good news.

But beyond that, compare the MAC to some other programs total operating expenses.

FBS
Boise State - $30,207,049.00
Utah - $31,302,138.00
Houston - $31,341,925.00
Mississippi State - $36,703,582.00
Washington State - $38,079,471.00
New Mexico - $39,368,459.00
Iowa State - $45,768,048.00
Oregon State - $54,576,139.00
Indiana - $55,652,636.00
Purdue - $57,707,608.00
Rutgers - $58,354,222.00
Clemson - $61,972,760.00
Virginia - $63,696,905.00
Minnesota - $70,322,993.00
Illinois - $73,643,345.00
Oklahoma - $81,404,991.00
LSU - $94,451,691.00
Florida - $102,082,778.00
Ohio State - $119,859,608.00
Texas - $127,651,428.00

FCS
Savannah State - $3,522,948.00
North Western State - $9,793,669.94
Western Illinois - $9,865,051.00
Northern Arizona - $10,195,286.00
Portland State - $10,322,983.00
Indiana State - $10,730,895.00
Citadel - $11,248,445.00
Eastern Illinois - $11,325,706.00
Stephen F. Austin - $12,664,561.00
North Dakota State - $13,101,951.00
Illinois State - $14,873,144.00
North Dakota - $15,648,901.00
Northern Iowa - $16,985,910.00
Sam Houston State - $18,055,234.00
Southern Illinois - $20,132,053.33
Old Dominion - $25,520,288.00

Looking at this list a couple things strike me. 1) Compare Southern Illinois' expenses to that of the MAC; very similar. 2) The MAC schools are in no man's land. The bottom schools in most leagues (Iowa State, Mississippi State, Washington State, etc.) are spending way more than MAC schools. Even successful mid-majors are spending more than MAC schools. If you start looking at the big boys it's not even fair.

So can the MAC schools and NIU survive in a world with 4 power conferences?

We're not that far to Utah, Boise State, Houston, etc.. I guess our best hope is Conference USA goes to 16 teams also and we get an invite? MWC is probably going to pick up the Big 12 left overs, and we're too far away anyways.

They might want the Chicago market and I imagine we are comparable to ECU, Marshall, UTEP.

(06-10-2010 01:52 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote: [ -> ]We're not that far to Utah, Boise State, Houston, etc.. I guess our best hope is Conference USA goes to 16 teams also and we get an invite? MWC is probably going to pick up the Big 12 left overs, and we're too far away anyways.

They might want the Chicago market and I imagine we are comparable to ECU, Marshall, UTEP.

I think that CUSA is the best way to go. The MAC is going to be left in the dust.

That being said we won't go anywhere and don't have any money to do so.

the MAC, its crappy bowl arrangements, its crappy detroit championship, and its crappy reputation will become even crappier.

This is such a complex issue, I can't wrap my arms around it.
In light of financial pressures, what role will athletics play at NIU?
Will the next NIU President (and administration) be pro-athletics?
I may be totally wrong, but I believe NIU is quickly reaching a fork in the road. Step up or step down with respect to football. Standing pat is not an option. 84 is wise to bring up the Chicago media market. We are about to find out its perceived value, both internally and externally. On a somewhat related note, I'd love to know what Korcek thinks of NIUs future. I may email him.

in light of things...it may appear that the value of having the MAC up in the FBS may not be worth its while. If we drop down to FCS, at least we can maybe regularly play in-state schools as well as COMPETE for national championships at that level.

I for one wouldn't go to a game if we dropped to FCS.

I'd still go to basketball games, but I'd rather drop football altogether than go that route.

It isn't just NIU that's going to be at a crossroads in the next few years as the aftermath of the big conference move gets sorted out- it's every mid-budget program in the country.

I think the MWC may be able to hold on as the second league of consequence in the west if they get to absorb the Big 12 leftovers. They have their own TV platform and would be the only league in a region that is experiencing some growth. CUSA is a southern league, which should keep them in better shape for longer. Football is just different in the south.

The other factor lurking is whatever happens with teams moving from FCS to FBS when the moratorium on moving up ends.

There's a lot left to be sorted out- but I'm not confident that upward mobility is actually possible.

(06-10-2010 02:16 PM)huskiealum03 Wrote: [ -> ]in light of things...it may appear that the value of having the MAC up in the FBS may not be worth its while. If we drop down to FCS, at least we can maybe regularly play in-state schools as well as COMPETE for national championships at that level.

If NIU goes FCS I am no longer following NIU football - and MANY others won't either.

You will see 2000-3000 per game EVERY game.

I don't see how the current restructuring impacts the MAC at all. The rich get richer, so what? They already generate exponentially more revenue than we do. We don't compete with them, we compete with our MAC brethren. The big boys will still want to play the MAC in non-conference games. Regardless of how big their conference is they're not going to play 12 or even 10 conference games. They'll play 9 tops, probably 8 like today. The current PAC 10 is the only one to play 9 conference games and they all ***** about it. There will still be plenty of bowls to go around. Regardless of how the conferences are configured it will still result in half the teams, including the MAC, being bowl eligible. And no one's stopping the MAC from building itself up to a major conference. There's no impediment to T. Boone Pickens type donors transforming the MAC schools if they so choose. I think this whole thing is a non-issue for the MAC.

(06-10-2010 02:43 PM)NIU1981 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't see how the current restructuring impacts the MAC at all. The rich get richer, so what? They already generate exponentially more revenue than we do. We don't compete with them, we compete with our MAC brethren. The big boys will still want to play the MAC in non-conference games. Regardless of how big their conference is they're not going to play 12 or even 10 conference games. They'll play 9 tops, probably 8 like today. The current PAC 10 is the only one to play 9 conference games and they all ***** about it. There will still be plenty of bowls to go around. Regardless of how the conferences are configured it will still result in half the teams, including the MAC, being bowl eligible. And no one's stopping the MAC from building itself up to a major conference. There's no impediment to T. Boone Pickens type donors transforming the MAC schools if they so choose. I think this whole thing is a non-issue for the MAC.

I tend to agree with you. I think this impacts the left out Big 12 schools and the Big East a lot more.

If NIU has no shot at doing anything of significance at the FBS level, whats the point? Play ball state for some corn trophy that no one cares about? Play tennessee tech in september? Play weekday november games so they could be on TV? Thats all i'm saying. The MAC is pretty much dead in the water in terms of prestige, upward mobility, level of competition.

NIU will be fine.

The MAC will be fine.

The MAC remains a solid, academically respected, hard working blue collar middle class affordable easy to get tickets to conference that has all the strengths of athletically and academically like minded universities serving a (figuratively) small geographic footprint.

The MAC will continue to play "Little Big Ten" to the BCS. We are actually in great shape because more then likely Temple is on its way to (perceived) greener fields. If Temple stays, make the offer to Iowa State.


I also wrote this, but I am not 100% convinced of this just yet. I'll feel better about my post once more of the conferance re-alignment shakes out in the way I believe it will shake out....

*****

The only way the MAC loses in this shake-up is if the new BCS conferences ditch their NCAA and BCS designations and build a brand-new athletic management system. That would never happen.

Yes I said never. It won't happen.

You know why it won't happen? Because even the new conferences are going to have traditional bottom-dwellers like Indiana and Washington State and Mississippi State. In order for those 'boys to get into a bowl game, they will need to play MAC-esqe and CUSA-esqe schools to get the required wins.

You know why it won't happen? The University Presidents are calling the shots here. They will not jeopardize conference academic rigor and conference reputation for a couple extra million a year. There are many more Minnesota’s, Indiana’s, Arkansas’, Maryland’s and Oregon’s than there are Texas and USC’s.

You know why it won't happen? Remember how 2003 built NIU a “front porch” to the University? Second tier BCS schools will not allow their reputations to be sullied by continued 1,2 or 3 win football seasons in never ending battle in a non-AQ, BCS only type conference. For some of these schools, they need a MAC to maintain their football straight face.

(06-10-2010 02:48 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote: [ -> ]The only way the MAC loses in this shake-up is if the new BCS conferences ditch their NCAA and BCS designations and build a brand-new athletic management system. That would never happen.

Yes I said never. It won't happen.

You know why it won't happen? Because even the new conferences are going to have traditional bottom-dwellers like Indiana and Washington State and Mississippi State. In order for those 'boys to get into a bowl game, they will need to play MAC-esqe and CUSA-esqe schools to get the required wins.

You know why it won't happen? The University Presidents are calling the shots here. They will not jeopardize conference academic rigor and conference reputation for a couple extra million a year. There are many more Minnesota’s, Indiana’s, Arkansas’, Maryland’s and Oregon’s than there are Texas and USC’s.

You know why it won't happen? Remember how 2003 built NIU a “front porch” to the University? Second tier BCS schools will not allow their reputations to be sullied by continued 1,2 or 3 win football seasons in never ending battle in a non-AQ, BCS only type conference. For some of these schools, they need a MAC to maintain their football straight face.

Never say never my friend. If they do break from the NCAA the win requirement goes out the window. They could do a NFL type season that removes the bowl system and you would see a tournament format to determine the champion. The BCS conferences don't need the MAC's of the world without the NCAA.

Alum03, people said the same thing about Boise State, Utah, etc.. and not to mention NIU before 2002. Then we got to 12th in the BCS and if not for a ton of injuries may have gone even higher. There's nothing that says we can't win, as GCD said, they don't get more scholarships than before. What's it matter what the conference is, NIU can compete just as well now as we could 7 years ago when we were nearly there.

Yeah.. a ton has to break right, but it did for Boise State, it has for others, it has for NIU previously, and it can happen. Upward mobility is still an option. UCF, Marshall came from the MAC. It can be done, doesn't make it likely, but the idea there's no chance of it is ridiculous.

(06-10-2010 02:40 PM)NIU Chicago Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-10-2010 02:16 PM)huskiealum03 Wrote: [ -> ]in light of things...it may appear that the value of having the MAC up in the FBS may not be worth its while. If we drop down to FCS, at least we can maybe regularly play in-state schools as well as COMPETE for national championships at that level.

If NIU goes FCS I am no longer following NIU football - and MANY others won't either.

You will see 2000-3000 per game EVERY game.

Count me out as well. The last few years have been hard enough - go to FCS and forget it - pull out of football and put all the $$ into basketball at that point.

(06-10-2010 03:36 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote: [ -> ]Alum03, people said the same thing about Boise State, Utah, etc.. and not to mention NIU before 2002. Then we got to 12th in the BCS and if not for a ton of injuries may have gone even higher. There's nothing that says we can't win, as GCD said, they don't get more scholarships than before. What's it matter what the conference is, NIU can compete just as well now as we could 7 years ago when we were nearly there.

Yeah.. a ton has to break right, but it did for Boise State, it has for others, it has for NIU previously, and it can happen. Upward mobility is still an option. UCF, Marshall came from the MAC. It can be done, doesn't make it likely, but the idea there's no chance of it is ridiculous.

Correction - in the first ever BCS rankings NIU was ranked #10.

That's awful on my part, I should really know that. You are correct RB.

(06-10-2010 03:47 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote: [ -> ]That's awful on my part, I should really know that. You are correct RB.

Yes it was!!! Don't slight us those 2 slots - "Top 10" sounds SO much better than "Top 12."

: )

(06-10-2010 03:56 PM)Rock Bottom Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-10-2010 03:47 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote: [ -> ]That's awful on my part, I should really know that. You are correct RB.

Yes it was!!! Don't slight us those 2 slots - "Top 10" sounds SO much better than "Top 12."

: )

your comment on NIUs inability to market itself and set itself up for this kind of scenario is precisely what I see and why i mentioned FCS. everything they've done has either been flawed or shortsighted and NIU either does not want or does not have the knowhow for growing this football program. "If boise state can do it, then NIU can as well"....well, why haven't we then?