CSNbbs

SoCon members Elon, El Cid and the College of Carleston all earned invations to 2010's ncaa baseball regional tournament.
The A-Sun conference received one invite - Mercer.
Both Elon and El Cid have football to drag down their programs.
Speak up A-Sun lovers! Where are you Buc 2002?
I was told baseball and men's soccer was were the A-Sun would really excel. Oh well.

Stanton & Mullins must go.

(06-02-2010 11:38 AM)buc1997 Wrote: [ -> ]SoCon members Elon, El Cid and the College of Carleston all earned invations to 2010's ncaa baseball regional tournament.
The A-Sun conference received one invite - Mercer.
Both Elon and El Cid have football to drag down their programs.
Speak up A-Sun lovers! Where are you Buc 2002?
I was told baseball and men's soccer was were the A-Sun would really excel. Oh well.

Stanton & Mullins must go.

:clap2: :clap2: :clap2:

Well had Gulf Coast not gotten screwed. They really deserved a bid, as everyone should get a turn. HA!
I wonder how much straight years that's happened?

Our visionary?????? ad said on the monster, that the a-suck "powers - to - be" were trying to figure out how to raise the profile of a-suck basketball, how to get better home games, how to get better media coverage, etc.

How ETSU can do it....

Start a fund raising campaign for a new arena and move to a better conference as soon as possible. The ad's plan of SIT and WAIT is ridiculous. SIT and WAIT just means pro-active universities will take the available spots while ETSU fiddles.

My Parents both work at ETSU and they told me it's a miracle we can afford a sports program right now. We need to think of ways to improve our program. Like bucone said we need some fund raisers and I don't want ETSU to just drop sports or go down a division.

I started to post something about the difference between Southern Conference teams in the NCAA baseball tournament and the ASun representative. However, after being accused of only coming on here to speak up when something goes wrong, I decided not to.

This is my first visit to this board in many months, and I noticed the post. My thoughts exactly.

We were told when we joined the ASun that the big selling point was the move up in baseball conferences.

I'm not taking up for the ASUN, because I know the SoCon is a better baseball(well all-around) league, but Mercer did knock Elon out of the tournament.

A-Sun had two players named to the Louisville Slugger First Team All-Americans...one of only four conferences in the nation to be able to boast that.

(06-04-2010 01:34 AM)lelanddavidson Wrote: [ -> ]My Parents both work at ETSU and they told me it's a miracle we can afford a sports program right now. We need to think of ways to improve our program. Like bucone said we need some fund raisers and I don't want ETSU to just drop sports or go down a division.

Why? How is that possible? Football was dropped and ETSU admin. has raised student activity fees at least three times since 2003. Where has the money gone?
Both the men’s and woman’s basketball teams have made the NCAA’s the last two seasons. Where is the money?
I am not trying to simply stir up these issues for the mere sake of it. But how can schools like Appy, WCU and TTU afford football? A marching band and homecoming? Is it not time people began to really look into this matter?

(06-09-2010 07:41 AM)buc1997 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-04-2010 01:34 AM)lelanddavidson Wrote: [ -> ]My Parents both work at ETSU and they told me it's a miracle we can afford a sports program right now. We need to think of ways to improve our program. Like bucone said we need some fund raisers and I don't want ETSU to just drop sports or go down a division.

Why? How is that possible? Football was dropped and ETSU admin. has raised student activity fees at least three times since 2003. Where has the money gone?
Both the men’s and woman’s basketball teams have made the NCAA’s the last two seasons. Where is the money?
I am not trying to simply stir up these issues for the mere sake of it. But how can schools like Appy, WCU and TTU afford football? A marching band and homecoming? Is it not time people began to really look into this matter?

App State for one not only has a student activity fee but a student athletic fee as well. The athletic fee obviously all goes toward the athletic department, on top of what they raise in other ways. 3 to 4 years ago both fees at App State were just over $260 per student per semester, meaning each student paid just over $520 per year toward the athletic department, and in activities fees. At ETSU the student activities fee's go to a number of different sources, and are no where near what's being paid at App State. If ETSU had an athletic fee of $500 per year per student, times say 14,000 students, that would mean $7 million dollars per year for athletics. Doctor Stanton has said over and over he will not put this on the students. By the way, I believe the money ETSU earns for making the NCAA tournament actually is divided equally between all the teams in the league.

Heaven forbid if staton and his cronies ever would do anything remotely close to what our peer and lower tier universities do in the way of a athletic program.

I guess the like the idea of standing-out-in-the-crowd.

For what it's worth, adding relatively hefty athletic fees is getting a lot of extra scrutiny nationwide right now because of the economic climate. With sizable budget cuts year after year right now, the faculty and other staff members at colleges/universities across the country are starting to be pretty vocal about losing funding/personnel due to cuts and being told to tighten their belts, while seeing increased funding to athletics. Students are also complaining as tuition prices are increasing and services are decreasing. I don't see any way for a high athletic fee to be imposed on the student body until there is economic improvement.

LetsGo - Nobody suggested a hefty athletic fee. Fans have consistently asked the question, "how do the other Tennessee Universities operate under the same rules as ETSU but somehow manage to have better facilities and football"? That question has never been answered by stanton, the ad or you.

Instead of you countering with fees, faculty and budget as excuses that ETSU can't get the job done, tell us how ETSU is different when compared to other Tennessee Universities when it comes to running an athletic department.

Apples to apples when comparing ETSU to it's Tennessee competition. If the executive office decision makers would operate in a transparent way and explain their reasoning...perhaps they would not face so much criticism over dropping football. My guess is low attendance was embarrassing...it wasn't about the money. Did anyone notice the president's box high above the field in the dome during the last season? It was not full...(not surprising when those are some of the worst seats in the Dome). The President was always there probably wishing he had better seats.

If you pulled the budgets from the UTC, Tennessee Techs, MTSUs of the world, it easy to see how they do it. Problem is...we are left to presume the decision makers don't want to do it. The decision makers have not been held into account for the promises they made when terminating football. One decision is easy to observe...ASun vs. Southern. How 'bout basketball attendance? How 'bout the rest of the athletic program. Objectively, the change has been a disaster for which most leaders at evaluation time would be terminated themselves.

There ought to be protests in front of Dossett Hall. Burgin would be most disappointed. ETSU was a test market for TBR. Have you noticed after observation all of ETSUs peers have kept their football programs...in the middle of budget madness.

The good Doctor has lead ETSU well in many ways...but apparently can't admit the football termination mistake. He needs too....otherwise his leadership will be noted not for any good that he has performed...only the dumb mistake of getting rid of football. Most of us think football can work at ETSU...but it takes excellent management. ETSU had it under Les Robinson where basketball attendance was excellent. New management has fouled that up. ETSU is back in the dumper with no hope in site to rise again.

Please do something to get ETSU back to where it needs to be in the athletic department. The status quo is not getting it. The easiest thing to fix is to change conferences by getting football back. Restore Buc Pride and end Buc embarrassment.

(06-18-2010 10:50 AM)Mister Jennings Wrote: [ -> ]Apples to apples when comparing ETSU to it's Tennessee competition. If the executive office decision makers would operate in a transparent way and explain their reasoning...perhaps they would not face so much criticism over dropping football. My guess is low attendance was embarrassing...it wasn't about the money. Did anyone notice the president's box high above the field in the dome during the last season? It was not full...(not surprising when those are some of the worst seats in the Dome). The President was always there probably wishing he had better seats.

If you pulled the budgets from the UTC, Tennessee Techs, MTSUs of the world, it easy to see how they do it. Problem is...we are left to presume the decision makers don't want to do it. The decision makers have not been held into account for the promises they made when terminating football. One decision is easy to observe...ASun vs. Southern. How 'bout basketball attendance? How 'bout the rest of the athletic program. Objectively, the change has been a disaster for which most leaders at evaluation time would be terminated themselves.

There ought to be protests in front of Dossett Hall. Burgin would be most disappointed. ETSU was a test market for TBR. Have you noticed after observation all of ETSUs peers have kept their football programs...in the middle of budget madness.

The good Doctor has lead ETSU well in many ways...but apparently can't admit the football termination mistake. He needs too....otherwise his leadership will be noted not for any good that he has performed...only the dumb mistake of getting rid of football. Most of us think football can work at ETSU...but it takes excellent management. ETSU had it under Les Robinson where basketball attendance was excellent. New management has fouled that up. ETSU is back in the dumper with no hope in site to rise again.

Please do something to get ETSU back to where it needs to be in the athletic department. The status quo is not getting it. The easiest thing to fix is to change conferences by getting football back. Restore Buc Pride and end Buc embarrassment.

That is why we have to keep up the drum beat to reinstate football. We still cannot explan why EVERY other school can play football and we "cannot". 1AA football is cheap, affordable football for schools like ETSU. The revenue streams from football cannot be denied. ETSU could easily draw the numbers to support 1AA. The walk on paying their own way could produce many extra dollars. The 1A game can easily produce 0.5 million dollars. All this plus getting back into a better more naturally fitting conference is well, well worth the sixty schlorarships it takes to make the team. All the other TN schools have NOT dropped football for these obvious reasons. Keep the faith.

(06-18-2010 04:50 PM)bucfan81 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-18-2010 10:50 AM)Mister Jennings Wrote: [ -> ]Apples to apples when comparing ETSU to it's Tennessee competition. If the executive office decision makers would operate in a transparent way and explain their reasoning...perhaps they would not face so much criticism over dropping football. My guess is low attendance was embarrassing...it wasn't about the money. Did anyone notice the president's box high above the field in the dome during the last season? It was not full...(not surprising when those are some of the worst seats in the Dome). The President was always there probably wishing he had better seats.

If you pulled the budgets from the UTC, Tennessee Techs, MTSUs of the world, it easy to see how they do it. Problem is...we are left to presume the decision makers don't want to do it. The decision makers have not been held into account for the promises they made when terminating football. One decision is easy to observe...ASun vs. Southern. How 'bout basketball attendance? How 'bout the rest of the athletic program. Objectively, the change has been a disaster for which most leaders at evaluation time would be terminated themselves.

There ought to be protests in front of Dossett Hall. Burgin would be most disappointed. ETSU was a test market for TBR. Have you noticed after observation all of ETSUs peers have kept their football programs...in the middle of budget madness.

The good Doctor has lead ETSU well in many ways...but apparently can't admit the football termination mistake. He needs too....otherwise his leadership will be noted not for any good that he has performed...only the dumb mistake of getting rid of football. Most of us think football can work at ETSU...but it takes excellent management. ETSU had it under Les Robinson where basketball attendance was excellent. New management has fouled that up. ETSU is back in the dumper with no hope in site to rise again.

Please do something to get ETSU back to where it needs to be in the athletic department. The status quo is not getting it. The easiest thing to fix is to change conferences by getting football back. Restore Buc Pride and end Buc embarrassment.

That is why we have to keep up the drum beat to reinstate football. We still cannot explan why EVERY other school can play football and we "cannot". 1AA football is cheap, affordable football for schools like ETSU. The revenue streams from football cannot be denied. ETSU could easily draw the numbers to support 1AA. The walk on paying their own way could produce many extra dollars. The 1A game can easily produce 0.5 million dollars. All this plus getting back into a better more naturally fitting conference is well, well worth the sixty schlorarships it takes to make the team. All the other TN schools have NOT dropped football for these obvious reasons. Keep the faith.

Nothing against football, but this is just untrue. FCS (I-AA) football is not cheap. Yes, it's considerably less than the top FBS programs, but that does not mean it is cheap. When you say the revenue streams cannot be denied, where do you get that from? The revenue stream of the majority of FCS football programs is a small percentage of the total cost to field a team. There is no way ETSU can restore football and actually have that football program even come close to paying for itself. It will take considerable institutional support/student fees to make it happen.

I'm not saying don't bring it back, but people need to understand it will be a hefty outlay of cash from the athletic dept. and will in no way come close to paying for itself.

(06-18-2010 08:09 PM)LetsgoBucs Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-18-2010 04:50 PM)bucfan81 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-18-2010 10:50 AM)Mister Jennings Wrote: [ -> ]Apples to apples when comparing ETSU to it's Tennessee competition. If the executive office decision makers would operate in a transparent way and explain their reasoning...perhaps they would not face so much criticism over dropping football. My guess is low attendance was embarrassing...it wasn't about the money. Did anyone notice the president's box high above the field in the dome during the last season? It was not full...(not surprising when those are some of the worst seats in the Dome). The President was always there probably wishing he had better seats.

If you pulled the budgets from the UTC, Tennessee Techs, MTSUs of the world, it easy to see how they do it. Problem is...we are left to presume the decision makers don't want to do it. The decision makers have not been held into account for the promises they made when terminating football. One decision is easy to observe...ASun vs. Southern. How 'bout basketball attendance? How 'bout the rest of the athletic program. Objectively, the change has been a disaster for which most leaders at evaluation time would be terminated themselves.

There ought to be protests in front of Dossett Hall. Burgin would be most disappointed. ETSU was a test market for TBR. Have you noticed after observation all of ETSUs peers have kept their football programs...in the middle of budget madness.

The good Doctor has lead ETSU well in many ways...but apparently can't admit the football termination mistake. He needs too....otherwise his leadership will be noted not for any good that he has performed...only the dumb mistake of getting rid of football. Most of us think football can work at ETSU...but it takes excellent management. ETSU had it under Les Robinson where basketball attendance was excellent. New management has fouled that up. ETSU is back in the dumper with no hope in site to rise again.

Please do something to get ETSU back to where it needs to be in the athletic department. The status quo is not getting it. The easiest thing to fix is to change conferences by getting football back. Restore Buc Pride and end Buc embarrassment.

That is why we have to keep up the drum beat to reinstate football. We still cannot explan why EVERY other school can play football and we "cannot". 1AA football is cheap, affordable football for schools like ETSU. The revenue streams from football cannot be denied. ETSU could easily draw the numbers to support 1AA. The walk on paying their own way could produce many extra dollars. The 1A game can easily produce 0.5 million dollars. All this plus getting back into a better more naturally fitting conference is well, well worth the sixty schlorarships it takes to make the team. All the other TN schools have NOT dropped football for these obvious reasons. Keep the faith.

Nothing against football, but this is just untrue. FCS (I-AA) football is not cheap. Yes, it's considerably less than the top FBS programs, but that does not mean it is cheap. When you say the revenue streams cannot be denied, where do you get that from? The revenue stream of the majority of FCS football programs is a small percentage of the total cost to field a team. There is no way ETSU can restore football and actually have that football program even come close to paying for itself. It will take considerable institutional support/student fees to make it happen.

I'm not saying don't bring it back, but people need to understand it will be a hefty outlay of cash from the athletic dept. and will in no way come close to paying for itself.

Can you then please please please please please tell us why evey other school in Tennessee has no trouble playing 1AA football? It is indeed relatively cheap and brings in more money than most sports. Man we are tired of these false arguments.

(06-18-2010 08:55 PM)bucfan81 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-18-2010 08:09 PM)LetsgoBucs Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-18-2010 04:50 PM)bucfan81 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-18-2010 10:50 AM)Mister Jennings Wrote: [ -> ]Apples to apples when comparing ETSU to it's Tennessee competition. If the executive office decision makers would operate in a transparent way and explain their reasoning...perhaps they would not face so much criticism over dropping football. My guess is low attendance was embarrassing...it wasn't about the money. Did anyone notice the president's box high above the field in the dome during the last season? It was not full...(not surprising when those are some of the worst seats in the Dome). The President was always there probably wishing he had better seats.

If you pulled the budgets from the UTC, Tennessee Techs, MTSUs of the world, it easy to see how they do it. Problem is...we are left to presume the decision makers don't want to do it. The decision makers have not been held into account for the promises they made when terminating football. One decision is easy to observe...ASun vs. Southern. How 'bout basketball attendance? How 'bout the rest of the athletic program. Objectively, the change has been a disaster for which most leaders at evaluation time would be terminated themselves.

There ought to be protests in front of Dossett Hall. Burgin would be most disappointed. ETSU was a test market for TBR. Have you noticed after observation all of ETSUs peers have kept their football programs...in the middle of budget madness.

The good Doctor has lead ETSU well in many ways...but apparently can't admit the football termination mistake. He needs too....otherwise his leadership will be noted not for any good that he has performed...only the dumb mistake of getting rid of football. Most of us think football can work at ETSU...but it takes excellent management. ETSU had it under Les Robinson where basketball attendance was excellent. New management has fouled that up. ETSU is back in the dumper with no hope in site to rise again.

Please do something to get ETSU back to where it needs to be in the athletic department. The status quo is not getting it. The easiest thing to fix is to change conferences by getting football back. Restore Buc Pride and end Buc embarrassment.

That is why we have to keep up the drum beat to reinstate football. We still cannot explan why EVERY other school can play football and we "cannot". 1AA football is cheap, affordable football for schools like ETSU. The revenue streams from football cannot be denied. ETSU could easily draw the numbers to support 1AA. The walk on paying their own way could produce many extra dollars. The 1A game can easily produce 0.5 million dollars. All this plus getting back into a better more naturally fitting conference is well, well worth the sixty schlorarships it takes to make the team. All the other TN schools have NOT dropped football for these obvious reasons. Keep the faith.

Nothing against football, but this is just untrue. FCS (I-AA) football is not cheap. Yes, it's considerably less than the top FBS programs, but that does not mean it is cheap. When you say the revenue streams cannot be denied, where do you get that from? The revenue stream of the majority of FCS football programs is a small percentage of the total cost to field a team. There is no way ETSU can restore football and actually have that football program even come close to paying for itself. It will take considerable institutional support/student fees to make it happen.

I'm not saying don't bring it back, but people need to understand it will be a hefty outlay of cash from the athletic dept. and will in no way come close to paying for itself.

Can you then please please please please please tell us why evey other school in Tennessee has no trouble playing 1AA football? It is indeed relatively cheap and brings in more money than most sports. Man we are tired of these false arguments.

You are correct, it does bring in more than most sports. It also spends considerably more than most sports. This is not false, this is indisputable fact. FCS football is a money loser, as a general rule, not a profitable enterprise. That said, the way schools fund these programs is just what I said - institutional support and student fees as well as private donations. Simply relying on ticket revenue, sponsorships, and TV money will not get the job done at the FCS level.

Again, focus on the facts. I never addressed the merits of FCS football. I simply said that it will not generate enough revenue to cover the costs that it creates. That is a factual, true statement.

Some references for you.

This is from Ga State who is just adding football.

"How will the football program be financed?

The student fee increase approved by the Board of Regents on April 15 will generate an additional $5.5 million per year, a figure that will increase as enrollment grows. Those monies will go toward annual operating costs for football and additional women’s sports, including scholarships, personnel, equipment and travel. Additionally, we look to continue to grow annual giving, corporate sponsorship and gate revenues to help fund operating costs.

Will the football program be self-sustaining?

Generally football programs on the Football Championship Subdivision level, and even most programs at the Football Bowl Subdivision level, are not self-sustaining. They typically must be funded through student fees, donations, and sponsorships. But Georgia State University believes that football adds tremendous value in terms of school spirit, identity and media exposure."

Here's some research for you that you may or may not want to read over so I'll give you some highlights.

This is a report that looked at institutional support for athletic depts. at the FBS level. As you can see (if you jump to page 5), the big conferences rely on little to no institutional support. Contrast that to the MWC, C-USA, WAC, Sunbelt, and MAC who all relied on institutional support for at least 43% of their operating revenue. The high end is the MAC who averaged 72.3% of their operating revenue from institutional support. These are FBS schools and they can't generate anywhere close to enough revenue to support their athletic depts.

http://www.centerforcollegeaffordability...iveTax.pdf

This is from Daniel Fulks, an accounting professor at Transylvania University who is very well known for his study of the economics of intercollegiate sport. This is a report he compiled for the NCAA. Starting on pg. 50 is the data for FCS (I-AA at that time) schools. You can look through the different charts and figures, but you'll see on pg. 69 that the average revenue for an FCS football program was 1,070,000 and the average expenses were 1,483,000. Now this is from 2003. Expenses have increased dramatically, particularly because of coaching salaries as well as issues like academic reform and the APR which have caused programs to spend more on auxiliary services for their football teams. However, revenues have not increased at nearly the same pace. So, on average an FCS football program is not even a break even proposition.

http://www.ncaapublications.com/productd...ONLINE.pdf

Now, all other sports lose money besides basketball generally as well at the FCS level, so a sports worth should not be determined by its ability to generate positive revenue, or college athletics would be drastically altered or eliminated.

So, again, I'm not in any way arguing the merits of football at the FCS level, or saying that it has no value. What I am saying, is that if adding football back is proposed, using the ability to generate positive revenue as a justification for the sport would simply not be true.

We all want sports to do well at ETSU. We are all fans and have a great interest in the University and I just wish the administrators would get together and find out why EVERY other state school is still playing 1AA football and we "cannot". This question needs to be answered and has not been up to this point. Now if Tenn Tech, TSU, APSU had all dropped their football programs then I think that would be different. Still we have to get together and find out why we are the loners in the state that cannot "afford" 1AA. My opinion.

(06-19-2010 10:23 AM)bucfan81 Wrote: [ -> ]We all want sports to do well at ETSU. We are all fans and have a great interest in the University and I just wish the administrators would get together and find out why EVERY other state school is still playing 1AA football and we "cannot". This question needs to be answered and has not been up to this point. Now if Tenn Tech, TSU, APSU had all dropped their football programs then I think that would be different. Still we have to get together and find out why we are the loners in the state that cannot "afford" 1AA. My opinion.

I think it is important to look at other schools. I think to be fair, we should compare ourselves to other TBR schools. When you do that, we have the lowest operating budget (according to http://www.bbstate.com) of all of the TBR schools. It lists our 09 operating budget as just under $6 million. Austin Peay is at 7.3, Tenn Tech was around $9 million, and Memphis is in an entirely different league at over $33 million. I don't recall Tn State's. So to me our closest peer is Austin Peay. They still have a sizeably larger budget than we do. They also won 2 total conference championships this year.

So, a simple answer as to why other schools have football and we don't, is the other schools have more money than we do. Now, you can see that without football, improvements have been made to the rest of the programs in the way of additional scholarships, new facilities, and improved salaries for coaches. (Whether or not you believe those were the right decisions is a different discussion) It is fair to say that with football, none of these things would have occurred, and the non-revenue sports would never become successful and a new basketball arena would be even farther away, as all "extra" funds would have to be funneled to a football program that was never very successful or well attended. I think with the personnel changes this spring, the administration seems to be holding these programs who have benefited from extra resources accountable to utilize them to be successful. This is a good thing. Overall, we have been very successful in the ASun. It's a big fish/small pond situation, since our spending levels are more on par with the ASun than the Southern.

Now I don't think any Buc fan should be satisfied with staying where we are. To move to a better conference though, the financial situation will have to be improved. We cannot compete in a better conference with our current revenues/expenses. So, the question I think for the administration, is how are we going to increase revenue? I personally don't think football will do that. If we can increase revenue to a point where we could actually be competitive in football in a better league as well as our non-revenue sports, then that's when we should bring back football.