I am going to enter an Olympic Hockey pool this week. Four of us are playing. Each selects three teams.
I have a feeling Team USA might finally get their act together and make a run for the gold. Of course, one needs to respect Canada, who is hosting, and Sweden - the defending gold medal team.
Anyone else have any inside info?
I don't think the US is a contender for the gold medal. Canada is the heavy favorite in Vancouver with I think the Russians and Sweden battling it out for the right to lose to them in the Gold Medal game. Sweden should benefit from the shorter preliminary round, so they won't have to go to their backup goaltender if they don't want to; they're very thin there and it's hurt them in the past. The US and Czechs are probably next in line with Slovakia also having an outside shot at a medal. Finland might sneak in there but I think they're closer to the Swiss in the middle of the pack than a real medal contender. Everybody else is insignificant from a medal standpoint.
The US just doesn't have the depth or ability that the top tier teams do at this stage and I think they are building more for 2014 with this roster. Miller might steal a game or two for them but he's going to have to stand on his head and they're going to have to get some contributions from some marginal/inexperienced players at this level if they're going to challenge for the gold medal. I don't even think they're really a favorite for a bronze at this point, although they're certainly in the discussion and them getting a medal wouldn't be a huge surprise.
Canada's depth is head and shoulders above everybody and playing on home ice they're going to be virtually impossible to beat I think. In one game, the Russians or Swedes probably have enough to pull an upset but for the most part I don't think Canada is going to have much trouble. The US might give them a game in the prelims but they're going to kill the Swiss and Norwegians and should end up with an easy quarterfinal matchup against some weakling.
Damn UI nice post. I'm not especially familiar with international hockey but sounds pretty typical...Sweden, Canada, Russia.
I thinkill get a few guys together and do something similar...you doing it in a draft format or random draw for teams?
Now that I think about it, isn't Canada a hands down favorite and there are really only like 3 competitive teams? Seems like a lot of people wouldn't have much of a chance to begin with bc they would have crap teams...
(01-18-2010 05:48 PM)armour248 Wrote: [ -> ]Now that I think about it, isn't Canada a hands down favorite and there are really only like 3 competitive teams? Seems like a lot of people wouldn't have much of a chance to begin with bc they would have crap teams...
Yes, Canada is the huge favorite. They have the best team and are playing at home. Sweden and Russia are in the 2nd tier, IMO, by themselves.
I guess the "competitive" teams list depends on what you mean, but the US, Czech Republic, Slovakia, and Finland all have good NHL players and (in the Europeans case) fill the roster out with guys that play in strong European leagues and/or AHL. They're competitive teams in the sense they're all in the medal discussion, but I don't think any of them are gold medal threats. The Swiss are the best of the rest IMO and then after that it's a bunch of mediocre/bad European sides. Teams like Latvia, Germany, etc. would do well to get anything out of any games they play from a result standpoint.
(01-18-2010 06:11 PM)UIHuskie Wrote: [ -> ] (01-18-2010 05:48 PM)armour248 Wrote: [ -> ]Now that I think about it, isn't Canada a hands down favorite and there are really only like 3 competitive teams? Seems like a lot of people wouldn't have much of a chance to begin with bc they would have crap teams...
Yes, Canada is the huge favorite. They have the best team and are playing at home. Sweden and Russia are in the 2nd tier, IMO, by themselves.
I guess the "competitive" teams list depends on what you mean, but the US, Czech Republic, Slovakia, and Finland all have good NHL players and (in the Europeans case) fill the roster out with guys that play in strong European leagues and/or AHL. They're competitive teams in the sense they're all in the medal discussion, but I don't think any of them are gold medal threats. The Swiss are the best of the rest IMO and then after that it's a bunch of mediocre/bad European sides. Teams like Latvia, Germany, etc. would do well to get anything out of any games they play from a result standpoint.
Another item in Canada's favor is that they will be playing in the narrower NHL sized rink which favors North America teams. They are leaving the ice surface at GM Place as is. In order to change to the wider International ice surface would have required the elimination of two rows of premium seating along the boards. As with anything else in sports, follow the dollars.
(01-18-2010 06:55 PM)niu79 Wrote: [ -> ]Another item in Canada's favor is that they will be playing in the narrower NHL sized rink which favors North America teams. They are leaving the ice surface at GM Place as is. In order to change to the wider International ice surface would have required the elimination of two rows of premium seating along the boards. As with anything else in sports, follow the dollars.
Yep, that's the most disappointing thing with regards to this Olympic hockey tournament; I actually like the wider ice surface, it opens up some more room and the games typically flow better than they do on the smaller rink.
It probably won't have as big an effect as it would have 20 years ago now that so many of the players in the tournament play in North America and at least from a spacing standpoint they're used to it, but I think it will hurt the quality of play a little bit.
I just saw tonight where the Finns may be without Selanne and Koivu due to recent injuries; that's a killer for them, they're both up there in age but they both have a ton of experience in international tournaments and they don't have guys capable of replacing them. Scratch the Finns from the list of possible medal winners if they don't get those guys back. The Finns have good, deep goaltending so I think they'll still be competitive but they won't have enough firepower to keep up over the length of the tournament. Should still get to the medal round but I would expect them to bow out rather early after that.
My thoughts now are if it even makes sense to do a pool for Olympic hockey. The team who gets Canada is almost guaranteed to win, and there are few other teams who are legitimate contenders. I suppose if you only did it with 4 people everyone could get a team with at least somewhat of a shot (Canada, Sweden, Russia, USA/Czech), but doing it with 6 might make the teams too thin. Agreed?
(01-18-2010 09:13 PM)armour248 Wrote: [ -> ]My thoughts now are if it even makes sense to do a pool for Olympic hockey. The team who gets Canada is almost guaranteed to win, and there are few other teams who are legitimate contenders. I suppose if you only did it with 4 people everyone could get a team with at least somewhat of a shot (Canada, Sweden, Russia, USA/Czech), but doing it with 6 might make the teams too thin. Agreed?
I'd have to think about it, but I think it would work best with 4 guys and putting teams in the pots and having a "draft". I don't think 6 guys will work, the talent level in the tournament doesn't go deep enough.
A) Canada, Russia, Sweden, USA/Czechs
B) USA/Czechs, Slovakia, Finland, Switzerland
C) Norway, Latvia, Belarus, Germany
Do rounds in pots, but snake Pot A and B, so the guy who picks first overall and gets Canada picks last out of Group B. Randomize Group C.
I'd have to think about how to score it, since the issue is the top 4 qualifiers don't play in the first round of the Medal Round, but that might help equalize the quality of teams somewhat. Somebody could end up with the US and Czechs, have a real good shot at a medal, and a 2nd team that should do real well in their Preliminary Group. The guy who gets Switzerland (presumably the guy who took Canada) is probably not going to get much out of them.
You've gotta go with Canada...their depth is simply too much. I would expect Jonathan Toews to be on the 3rd or 4th line (behind centers such as Joe Thornton and Sidney Crosby), which shows just how ridiculous their team depth is across all 4 lines.
That said, watch out for Russia and Slovakia. Russia can roll out some pretty explosive talent in Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Malkin, just to name a few. Slovakia quietly is gonna have Hossa, Chara, and Gaborik..but I wouldn't put too much stock into them. With Blackhawks 4th liner Tomas Kopecky making the roster, their depth must be severely lacking.
I'm not sure if I see U.S.A. doing much this year, but you never know. Ryan Miller is an excellent goaltender that could steal a few games for them if he continues to play well, and Kane is one of the hottest players in the league as of late. Zack Parise, perhaps the most underrated player in the NHL, will also help that team.
Either way, I can't wait to watch!
(01-18-2010 10:34 PM)clcfball11 Wrote: [ -> ]You've gotta go with Canada...their depth is simply too much. I would expect Jonathan Toews to be on the 3rd or 4th line (behind centers such as Joe Thornton and Sidney Crosby), which shows just how ridiculous their team depth is across all 4 lines.
That said, watch out for Russia and Slovakia. Russia can roll out some pretty explosive talent in Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Malkin, just to name a few. Slovakia quietly is gonna have Hossa, Chara, and Gaborik..but I wouldn't put too much stock into them. With Blackhawks 4th liner Tomas Kopecky making the roster, their depth must be severely lacking.
I'm not sure if I see U.S.A. doing much this year, but you never know. Ryan Miller is an excellent goaltender that could steal a few games for them if he continues to play well, and Kane is one of the hottest players in the league as of late. Zack Parise, perhaps the most underrated player in the NHL, will also help that team.
Either way, I can't wait to watch!
agreed I can't wait, my David Backes Team USA jersey is in the mail. Dude is on a mission to intimidate Team Canada. I think Team USA is going to surprise people, I don't see a reason why they won't contend.Brian Burke put together a great team USA! USA! USA!
here's an article on Backes' mission against canada
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/inde...run_pierre
(01-18-2010 09:13 PM)armour248 Wrote: [ -> ]My thoughts now are if it even makes sense to do a pool for Olympic hockey. The team who gets Canada is almost guaranteed to win, and there are few other teams who are legitimate contenders. I suppose if you only did it with 4 people everyone could get a team with at least somewhat of a shot (Canada, Sweden, Russia, USA/Czech), but doing it with 6 might make the teams too thin. Agreed?
(01-18-2010 09:44 PM)UIHuskie Wrote: [ -> ] (01-18-2010 09:13 PM)armour248 Wrote: [ -> ]My thoughts now are if it even makes sense to do a pool for Olympic hockey. The team who gets Canada is almost guaranteed to win, and there are few other teams who are legitimate contenders. I suppose if you only did it with 4 people everyone could get a team with at least somewhat of a shot (Canada, Sweden, Russia, USA/Czech), but doing it with 6 might make the teams too thin. Agreed?
I'd have to think about it, but I think it would work best with 4 guys and putting teams in the pots and having a "draft". I don't think 6 guys will work, the talent level in the tournament doesn't go deep enough.
A) Canada, Russia, Sweden, USA/Czechs
B) USA/Czechs, Slovakia, Finland, Switzerland
C) Norway, Latvia, Belarus, Germany
Do rounds in pots, but snake Pot A and B, so the guy who picks first overall and gets Canada picks last out of Group B. Randomize Group C.
I'd have to think about how to score it, since the issue is the top 4 qualifiers don't play in the first round of the Medal Round, but that might help equalize the quality of teams somewhat. Somebody could end up with the US and Czechs, have a real good shot at a medal, and a 2nd team that should do real well in their Preliminary Group. The guy who gets Switzerland (presumably the guy who took Canada) is probably not going to get much out of them.
Thanks for the info. The pool rules are fairly simple. Four pool players, and twelve teams means everyone gets three teams, and it is not likely you will get a combo of Canada, Russia, and Sweden.
It's all about total wins, with ties equal to half a win.
Picking order will be determined by blindly drawing four playing cards: Ace 2,3, and 4. Then the draft order will be A,2,3,4,4,3,2,A,A,2,3,4.
So getting that first pick of Canada means your next pick will be the eighth team selected. Even if your Canadians win all their matches, that may not be enough total wins.
Four years ago, I won the pool with Sweden, Finland and Germany.
You want your first pick to win the gold. You want your second pick to play in a medal game. If your third pick wins any games that's a bonus.
I just have a feeling about Team USA. :patriot: Sure they are young. They were even younger in 1980, and look what happened. They seem to play with a little extra enthusiasm in North American Olympics. Take 1980, 2002, 1960, 1932. This team might just be young enough to take the Olympics seriously. After coming so close in 2002, they have a score to settle with Canada.
I was thinking that Finland could be gearing for revenge against Sweden, but Selane is hurt, so maybe not.
There is more to Olympic hockey than just talent, and with the all-or-nothing tournament, almost anything can happen. Everyone knows about the 1980 "miracle on ice", but what about 2002, when Belarus beat Sweden? They should make a movie about that.
I also have a feeling about Latvia. Not a medal feeling, but I think they could upset a couple teams and maybe even sneak into the tourney. The majority of their roster also plays for Dinamo Riga, so they already have a team cohesion, that could be lacking in other teams, whose players are thrown together at the last minute.
Huskie Jon,
Thanks for the info. Sounds like fun and I'll probably set a pool up with a few friends.
(01-19-2010 12:08 AM)niutbbucfan Wrote: [ -> ] (01-18-2010 10:34 PM)clcfball11 Wrote: [ -> ]You've gotta go with Canada...their depth is simply too much. I would expect Jonathan Toews to be on the 3rd or 4th line (behind centers such as Joe Thornton and Sidney Crosby), which shows just how ridiculous their team depth is across all 4 lines.
That said, watch out for Russia and Slovakia. Russia can roll out some pretty explosive talent in Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Malkin, just to name a few. Slovakia quietly is gonna have Hossa, Chara, and Gaborik..but I wouldn't put too much stock into them. With Blackhawks 4th liner Tomas Kopecky making the roster, their depth must be severely lacking.
I'm not sure if I see U.S.A. doing much this year, but you never know. Ryan Miller is an excellent goaltender that could steal a few games for them if he continues to play well, and Kane is one of the hottest players in the league as of late. Zack Parise, perhaps the most underrated player in the NHL, will also help that team.
Either way, I can't wait to watch!
agreed I can't wait, my David Backes Team USA jersey is in the mail. Dude is on a mission to intimidate Team Canada. I think Team USA is going to surprise people, I don't see a reason why they won't contend.Brian Burke put together a great team USA! USA! USA!
here's an article on Backes' mission against canada
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/inde...run_pierre
Haha that's awesome!!! I'm a casual hockey fan at best... I don't even have a favorite team but I LOVE international competition. (I hate soccer but I watch the World Cup..)
This article got me a little pumped up and got that USA pride goin a little bit
Canada is the clear favorite. If they could enter a 2nd team they'd be ranked number 2. But they have gone without a medal in 2 of the last 3 olympics.
The US I think is the 2nd best team simply due to their depth across the board. You cannot discount the importance of goaltending in a short tournament like this. Having the current Vezina winner as your backup really speaks to the US ability to steal a game or two.
Russia has the best group of forwards outside of Canada, but the depth at the blueline and the history of Nabokov in pressure games could lead to Bryzgalov, who doesn't have the experience.
Sweden is much like Russia with great forwards and an aging blue line. Also Henrik Lundvqist will have to play every game.
Finland is a team that I don't think can do anything well to beat a top tier team. They have always found a way to do well though. The Czechs are in even worse shape. The old guard is the only real talent they have and this is their last chance for a medal for a decade or two.
My two darkhorse teams are Slovakia because their top lines can compete with any team and if you want a real longhshot I'd take the Swiss.
Canada will be the clear favorite. Gotta love international hockey with the larger ice surface. It's great to watch.
Here's hoping the USA will shock everyone and that the Blackhawks representatives will not kill each other during the tournament!
I want that Cup dammit!!
(01-22-2010 01:43 AM)Spudskie Wrote: [ -> ]Canada will be the clear favorite. Gotta love international hockey with the larger ice surface. It's great to watch.
Here's hoping the USA will shock everyone and that the Blackhawks representatives will not kill each other during the tournament!
I want that Cup dammit!!
that would be awesome
We finally had our hockey pool draft, so I am all ready for some olympic hockey.
My teams (countries) are USA :patriot:, Czech Republic, and Norway. The other players took the following:
Phil: Belarus, Slovakia, and Latvia
Kim: Canada, Finland, and Germany
Chris: Sweden, Russia, and Switzerland
I took the idea and ran it by a few friends who thought it would be fun to do as well. After explaining the process to them, they decided to do the team picking without me, and destroyed the entire thing. The three of them did the team picking together and then emailed the results to me. The messed up part is that they screwed up in multiple different ways.
I explained to them that it was total wins and that there would be a snaking draft. Because none of us really know anything about any of the teams besides Canada and USA, they thought we would just draft off of the International Ice Hockey Federations ranking of the teams. Those rankings are/were as follows...
1. Canada
2. Russia
3. Sweden
4. Finland
5. Czech Republic
6. United States
7. Switzerland
8. Slovakia
9. Belarus
10. Germany
11. Latvia
12. Norway
I had the #2 pick...and I ended up with Canada. My friends are complete idiots. To make matters even worse, they think that the payout is winner takes all. So, I didn't say **** and took my team of Canada, Germany, and Norway. I have no idea what they were thinking. I guess this debacle solidifies my position as commissioner of our fantasy football league that has been running without a hiccup for 4 years.