A lot of people voted for Obama because they thought he was different. Well he is a typical politician. Caught in speeches talking about transparency and the health care debate but now ?????
Secret deals and strong armed tactics still being used. Pelosi even poked fun at Obama.
He is no different than any other politician.
(01-07-2010 10:22 AM)klake87 Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of people voted for Obama because they thought he was different. Well he is a typical politician. Caught in speeches talking about transparency and the health care debate but now ?????
Secret deals and strong armed tactics still being used. Pelosi even poked fun at Obama.
He is no different than any other politician.
Here in this place new light is streaming, now is the darkness vanished away;
See in this space our fears and our dreamings brought here to you in the light of this day.
Gather us in, the lost and forsaken, gather us in, the blind and the lame;
Call to us now, and we shall awaken, we shall arise at the sound of our name
(01-07-2010 10:22 AM)klake87 Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of people voted for Obama because they thought he was different. Well he is a typical politician. Caught in speeches talking about transparency and the health care debate but now ?????
Secret deals and strong armed tactics still being used. Pelosi even poked fun at Obama.
He is no different than any other politician.
Obama's the worst type of liar - a hypocrite. But then again he was one his entire campaign, but sadly many American's were too ignorant too notice, and the Republicans ran a terrible campaign themselves.
(01-07-2010 10:22 AM)klake87 Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of people voted for Obama because they thought he was different. Well he is a typical politician. Caught in speeches talking about transparency and the health care debate but now ?????
Secret deals and strong armed tactics still being used. Pelosi even poked fun at Obama.
He is no different than any other politician.
Maybe there is a very good reason for NOT making it public or allowing "the party of no" to be involved. One, the Republicans are not relevant to the process anymore. THey will just make up more crap about "death panels" and stuff like that that helps nobody. Second, this keeps the health insurance industry from knowing what will be included in the final version so it keeps them from spending more millions of dollars on lobbying their bs(more toward the tv/public).
(01-08-2010 12:47 PM)RobertN Wrote: [ -> ] (01-07-2010 10:22 AM)klake87 Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of people voted for Obama because they thought he was different. Well he is a typical politician. Caught in speeches talking about transparency and the health care debate but now ?????
Secret deals and strong armed tactics still being used. Pelosi even poked fun at Obama.
He is no different than any other politician.
Maybe there is a very good reason for NOT making it public or allowing "the party of no" to be involved. One, the Republicans are not relevant to the process anymore. THey will just make up more crap about "death panels" and stuff like that that helps nobody. Second, this keeps the health insurance industry from knowing what will be included in the final version so it keeps them from spending more millions of dollars on lobbying their bs(more toward the tv/public).
Maybe (definitely) he never meant what he said. To get votes, he said what he had too. How many "private" meetings are going on where deals and arm twisting is happening. This bill is all about controlling our lives. For 90% of people, health insurance will not get cheaper or better.
Also, why wouldn"t he want it on CSPANN? Hiding something?
(01-08-2010 01:02 PM)klake87 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-08-2010 12:47 PM)RobertN Wrote: [ -> ] (01-07-2010 10:22 AM)klake87 Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of people voted for Obama because they thought he was different. Well he is a typical politician. Caught in speeches talking about transparency and the health care debate but now ?????
Secret deals and strong armed tactics still being used. Pelosi even poked fun at Obama.
He is no different than any other politician.
Maybe there is a very good reason for NOT making it public or allowing "the party of no" to be involved. One, the Republicans are not relevant to the process anymore. THey will just make up more crap about "death panels" and stuff like that that helps nobody. Second, this keeps the health insurance industry from knowing what will be included in the final version so it keeps them from spending more millions of dollars on lobbying their bs(more toward the tv/public).
Maybe (definitely) he never meant what he said. To get votes, he said what he had too. How many "private" meetings are going on where deals and arm twisting is happening. This bill is all about controlling our lives. For 90% of people, health insurance will not get cheaper or better.
Also, why wouldn"t he want it on CSPANN? Hiding something?
Obama was on Chad Spann? Kinky....
(01-08-2010 12:47 PM)RobertN Wrote: [ -> ] (01-07-2010 10:22 AM)klake87 Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of people voted for Obama because they thought he was different. Well he is a typical politician. Caught in speeches talking about transparency and the health care debate but now ?????
Secret deals and strong armed tactics still being used. Pelosi even poked fun at Obama.
He is no different than any other politician.
Maybe there is a very good reason for NOT making it public or allowing "the party of no" to be involved. One, the Republicans are not relevant to the process anymore. THey will just make up more crap about "death panels" and stuff like that that helps nobody. Second, this keeps the health insurance industry from knowing what will be included in the final version so it keeps them from spending more millions of dollars on lobbying their bs(more toward the tv/public).
I was at first disappointed with Obama's apparent reneging of his campaign promise of transparency here, but I must agree that at this point more transparency can only lead to a more diluted and pointless piece of legislation.
I hope Obama has learned from this experience that he must propose the extreme, negotiate down to what he really wants, and then ram that through with reconciliation. This nicety and bipartisan crap does not work. We should have started with single payer, negotiated down to the public option, and passed it before the summer break.
(01-08-2010 01:50 PM)NiuCoils Wrote: [ -> ] (01-08-2010 12:47 PM)RobertN Wrote: [ -> ] (01-07-2010 10:22 AM)klake87 Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of people voted for Obama because they thought he was different. Well he is a typical politician. Caught in speeches talking about transparency and the health care debate but now ?????
Secret deals and strong armed tactics still being used. Pelosi even poked fun at Obama.
He is no different than any other politician.
Maybe there is a very good reason for NOT making it public or allowing "the party of no" to be involved. One, the Republicans are not relevant to the process anymore. THey will just make up more crap about "death panels" and stuff like that that helps nobody. Second, this keeps the health insurance industry from knowing what will be included in the final version so it keeps them from spending more millions of dollars on lobbying their bs(more toward the tv/public).
I was at first disappointed with Obama's apparent reneging of his campaign promise of transparency here, but I must agree that at this point more transparency can only lead to a more diluted and pointless piece of legislation.
I hope Obama has learned from this experience that he must propose the extreme, negotiate down to what he really wants, and then ram that through with reconciliation. This nicety and bipartisan crap does not work. We should have started with single payer, negotiated down to the public option, and passed it before the summer break.
Well, if Obama doesn't want to be a hypocrite it's too bad if transparency dilutes the legislation. If it was good legislation in the first place it wouldn't get diluted. It's ridiculous to say, essentially, "we'll be transparent when it benefits us, but not when it doesn't." Isn't that essentially what the Bush administration did that Obama and the other Dems railed against?
Quote:RobertN wrote:
Quote:klake87 Wrote:
A lot of people voted for Obama because they thought he was different. Well he is a typical politician. Caught in speeches talking about transparency and the health care debate but now ?????
Secret deals and strong armed tactics still being used. Pelosi even poked fun at Obama.
He is no different than any other politician.
Maybe there is a very good reason for NOT making it public or allowing "the party of no" to be involved. One, the Republicans are not relevant to the process anymore. THey will just make up more crap about "death panels" and stuff like that that helps nobody. Second, this keeps the health insurance industry from knowing what will be included in the final version so it keeps them from spending more millions of dollars on lobbying their bs(more toward the tv/public).
"Transparency" was just campaign talk. He did not expect so many people to be against his sweeping health care plan when he made that promise. Seeing as how the details already revealed have slowed the progress of the plan, why should they reveal any more details? It is much easier to ram this socialist plan down our throats when we do not know the details.
So I agree with RobertN. Revealing details would just cause more people to oppose it.
It's change we can believe in, and more so if we do not know the details.
Well, to be fair to Barry - he said it was change you can believe in, but kids believe in Santa Claus and the toothfairy as well. Believing doesn't mean something's actually true. Both kids and Obama supporters have the same excuse for believing in these things - both groups are naive and ignorant. Sadly for the country the kids will grow out of it, but I doubt that it true for many Obama supporters.
(01-09-2010 10:53 AM)Huskie_Jon Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:RobertN wrote:
Quote:klake87 Wrote:
A lot of people voted for Obama because they thought he was different. Well he is a typical politician. Caught in speeches talking about transparency and the health care debate but now ?????
Secret deals and strong armed tactics still being used. Pelosi even poked fun at Obama.
He is no different than any other politician.
Maybe there is a very good reason for NOT making it public or allowing "the party of no" to be involved. One, the Republicans are not relevant to the process anymore. THey will just make up more crap about "death panels" and stuff like that that helps nobody. Second, this keeps the health insurance industry from knowing what will be included in the final version so it keeps them from spending more millions of dollars on lobbying their bs(more toward the tv/public).
"Transparency" was just campaign talk. He did not expect so many people to be against his sweeping health care plan when he made that promise. Seeing as how the details already revealed have slowed the progress of the plan, why should they reveal any more details? It is much easier to ram this socialist plan down our throats when we do not know the details.
So I agree with RobertN. Revealing details would just cause more people to oppose it.
It's change we can believe in, and more so if we do not know the details.
Yeah. He didn't understand the power of the healthcare lobby, the resistence to anything he does by the Republicans(all of them) or the ignorance of the American people(death panels etc).
As it was written going into this phase, yeah, a lot of people oppose it and the more watered down it gets, the more people are going to oppose it-including Democrats because it does little to change what we have today except put 31 million more people into the bank accounts of the insurance companies. Not to mention more misinformation will be spread to the American people(mainly those on the right through Faux News). However, when you ask people if they would like a public option, a large majority actually say they would like one.
(01-09-2010 12:24 PM)RobertN Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2010 10:53 AM)Huskie_Jon Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:RobertN wrote:
Quote:klake87 Wrote:
A lot of people voted for Obama because they thought he was different. Well he is a typical politician. Caught in speeches talking about transparency and the health care debate but now ?????
Secret deals and strong armed tactics still being used. Pelosi even poked fun at Obama.
He is no different than any other politician.
Maybe there is a very good reason for NOT making it public or allowing "the party of no" to be involved. One, the Republicans are not relevant to the process anymore. THey will just make up more crap about "death panels" and stuff like that that helps nobody. Second, this keeps the health insurance industry from knowing what will be included in the final version so it keeps them from spending more millions of dollars on lobbying their bs(more toward the tv/public).
"Transparency" was just campaign talk. He did not expect so many people to be against his sweeping health care plan when he made that promise. Seeing as how the details already revealed have slowed the progress of the plan, why should they reveal any more details? It is much easier to ram this socialist plan down our throats when we do not know the details.
So I agree with RobertN. Revealing details would just cause more people to oppose it.
It's change we can believe in, and more so if we do not know the details.
Yeah. He didn't understand the power of the healthcare lobby, the resistence to anything he does by the Republicans(all of them) or the ignorance of the American people(death panels etc).
As it was written going into this phase, yeah, a lot of people oppose it and the more watered down it gets, the more people are going to oppose it-including Democrats because it does little to change what we have today except put 31 million more people into the bank accounts of the insurance companies. Not to mention more misinformation will be spread to the American people(mainly those on the right through Faux News).
You would think that a former lobbyist, like Obama, would know all about the power of the health care lobby, even if he did not have any executive experience or ever work in the private sector.
You would also think that someone who studied constitutional law at Harvard would understand that our founding fathers specifically set up a system of checks and balances, with freedom of the press, so that the Constitution could not be fundamentally changed overnight without anyone noticing it.
It's so nice to have an "intellectual" in the Oval Office.
Quote:However, when you ask people if they would like a public option, a large majority actually say they would like one.
A large majority?
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_c...1_disagree
Monday, the unions meet on health care. Time for their piece of the pie. Of course, we should know nothing about these discussions. I am sure Card Check will be granted to get the unions on board.
(01-08-2010 12:47 PM)RobertN Wrote: [ -> ] (01-07-2010 10:22 AM)klake87 Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of people voted for Obama because they thought he was different. Well he is a typical politician. Caught in speeches talking about transparency and the health care debate but now ?????
Secret deals and strong armed tactics still being used. Pelosi even poked fun at Obama.
He is no different than any other politician.
Maybe there is a very good reason for NOT making it public or allowing "the party of no" to be involved. One, the Republicans are not relevant to the process anymore. THey will just make up more crap about "death panels" and stuff like that that helps nobody. Second, this keeps the health insurance industry from knowing what will be included in the final version so it keeps them from spending more millions of dollars on lobbying their bs(more toward the tv/public).
WOW - so if your guy wants to be secretive it is OK but not if it is the opposing side.
People and the media would be going crazy if the biggest piece of legislation in over 50 years was being done behind closed doors with Bush - but sure no problem with BO.
Talk about hypocrites.
(01-10-2010 11:38 AM)Huskie_Jon Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2010 12:24 PM)RobertN Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2010 10:53 AM)Huskie_Jon Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:RobertN wrote:
Quote:klake87 Wrote:
A lot of people voted for Obama because they thought he was different. Well he is a typical politician. Caught in speeches talking about transparency and the health care debate but now ?????
Secret deals and strong armed tactics still being used. Pelosi even poked fun at Obama.
He is no different than any other politician.
Maybe there is a very good reason for NOT making it public or allowing "the party of no" to be involved. One, the Republicans are not relevant to the process anymore. THey will just make up more crap about "death panels" and stuff like that that helps nobody. Second, this keeps the health insurance industry from knowing what will be included in the final version so it keeps them from spending more millions of dollars on lobbying their bs(more toward the tv/public).
"Transparency" was just campaign talk. He did not expect so many people to be against his sweeping health care plan when he made that promise. Seeing as how the details already revealed have slowed the progress of the plan, why should they reveal any more details? It is much easier to ram this socialist plan down our throats when we do not know the details.
So I agree with RobertN. Revealing details would just cause more people to oppose it.
It's change we can believe in, and more so if we do not know the details.
Yeah. He didn't understand the power of the healthcare lobby, the resistence to anything he does by the Republicans(all of them) or the ignorance of the American people(death panels etc).
As it was written going into this phase, yeah, a lot of people oppose it and the more watered down it gets, the more people are going to oppose it-including Democrats because it does little to change what we have today except put 31 million more people into the bank accounts of the insurance companies. Not to mention more misinformation will be spread to the American people(mainly those on the right through Faux News).
You would think that a former lobbyist, like Obama, would know all about the power of the health care lobby, even if he did not have any executive experience or ever work in the private sector.
You would also think that someone who studied constitutional law at Harvard would understand that our founding fathers specifically set up a system of checks and balances, with freedom of the press, so that the Constitution could not be fundamentally changed overnight without anyone noticing it.
It's so nice to have an "intellectual" in the Oval Office.
Quote:However, when you ask people if they would like a public option, a large majority actually say they would like one.
A large majority?
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_c...1_disagree
One poll. Not to mention it is the only one that is ever mentioned by those on the right. Hmm. I wonder why? MAybe because it is a BIASED poll in the Republicans favor? Nah. THat can't be it.
(01-11-2010 04:01 PM)NIU Chicago Wrote: [ -> ] (01-08-2010 12:47 PM)RobertN Wrote: [ -> ] (01-07-2010 10:22 AM)klake87 Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of people voted for Obama because they thought he was different. Well he is a typical politician. Caught in speeches talking about transparency and the health care debate but now ?????
Secret deals and strong armed tactics still being used. Pelosi even poked fun at Obama.
He is no different than any other politician.
Maybe there is a very good reason for NOT making it public or allowing "the party of no" to be involved. One, the Republicans are not relevant to the process anymore. THey will just make up more crap about "death panels" and stuff like that that helps nobody. Second, this keeps the health insurance industry from knowing what will be included in the final version so it keeps them from spending more millions of dollars on lobbying their bs(more toward the tv/public).
WOW - so if your guy wants to be secretive it is OK but not if it is the opposing side.
People and the media would be going crazy if the biggest piece of legislation in over 50 years was being done behind closed doors with Bush - but sure no problem with BO.
Talk about hypocrites.
The problem with these bills (and a lot of important bills) is too much crap is included to know exactly what is included. This has been going on for a long time through many administrations. That is why some politicians vote against a bill, because something was included within it that shouldn't be in it. And then the other side says "look at him/her, they didn't vote for this bill, so they must be a bad person", never mentioning the real reason he didn't vote for it. I'm sick of politics and it is getting worse every year. The Democrats aren't the only hypocrites these days.
(02-08-2010 11:39 AM)NIU17 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-11-2010 04:01 PM)NIU Chicago Wrote: [ -> ] (01-08-2010 12:47 PM)RobertN Wrote: [ -> ] (01-07-2010 10:22 AM)klake87 Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of people voted for Obama because they thought he was different. Well he is a typical politician. Caught in speeches talking about transparency and the health care debate but now ?????
Secret deals and strong armed tactics still being used. Pelosi even poked fun at Obama.
He is no different than any other politician.
Maybe there is a very good reason for NOT making it public or allowing "the party of no" to be involved. One, the Republicans are not relevant to the process anymore. THey will just make up more crap about "death panels" and stuff like that that helps nobody. Second, this keeps the health insurance industry from knowing what will be included in the final version so it keeps them from spending more millions of dollars on lobbying their bs(more toward the tv/public).
WOW - so if your guy wants to be secretive it is OK but not if it is the opposing side.
People and the media would be going crazy if the biggest piece of legislation in over 50 years was being done behind closed doors with Bush - but sure no problem with BO.
Talk about hypocrites.
The problem with these bills (and a lot of important bills) is too much crap is included to know exactly what is included. This has been going on for a long time through many administrations. That is why some politicians vote against a bill, because something was included within it that shouldn't be in it. And then the other side says "look at him/her, they didn't vote for this bill, so they must be a bad person", never mentioning the real reason he didn't vote for it. I'm sick of politics and it is getting worse every year. The Democrats aren't the only hypocrites these days.
I agree wholeheartedly - both the Dems and Repubs suck. They rarely read the bills they vote on. They come up with names of bills that cause political problems to vote against: Who could be against the "Patriot Act" or "No Child Left Behind"? Oh, so you aren't patriotic??? You want kids to be left behind?? It's a freaking joke - and sadly it's on all of us.
(02-08-2010 11:39 AM)NIU17 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-11-2010 04:01 PM)NIU Chicago Wrote: [ -> ] (01-08-2010 12:47 PM)RobertN Wrote: [ -> ] (01-07-2010 10:22 AM)klake87 Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of people voted for Obama because they thought he was different. Well he is a typical politician. Caught in speeches talking about transparency and the health care debate but now ?????
Secret deals and strong armed tactics still being used. Pelosi even poked fun at Obama.
He is no different than any other politician.
Maybe there is a very good reason for NOT making it public or allowing "the party of no" to be involved. One, the Republicans are not relevant to the process anymore. THey will just make up more crap about "death panels" and stuff like that that helps nobody. Second, this keeps the health insurance industry from knowing what will be included in the final version so it keeps them from spending more millions of dollars on lobbying their bs(more toward the tv/public).
WOW - so if your guy wants to be secretive it is OK but not if it is the opposing side.
People and the media would be going crazy if the biggest piece of legislation in over 50 years was being done behind closed doors with Bush - but sure no problem with BO.
Talk about hypocrites.
The problem with these bills (and a lot of important bills) is too much crap is included to know exactly what is included. This has been going on for a long time through many administrations. That is why some politicians vote against a bill, because something was included within it that shouldn't be in it. And then the other side says "look at him/her, they didn't vote for this bill, so they must be a bad person", never mentioning the real reason he didn't vote for it. I'm sick of politics and it is getting worse every year. The Democrats aren't the only hypocrites these days.
Yep - and BO said he would get rid of earmarks - LIAR!!!
Obama is black.......there is no transparency.