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Full Version: The WORST Nightmare of ETSU
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I was talking to another poster recently about this, and thought now was the time to bring it up.

Has anyone considered what would happen if King tried to go Division I?

Think about this. They have the facility in Viking Hall to do this for basketball. They have two men in Dale Burns and George Pitts at their helm who would love to have that kind of stature for their own egos. They have more support in the media with Bill Meade, a better radio contract RIGHT NOW than ETSU (WXSM actually gets better ratings than WKOS), and educationally they seem to want to follow in ETSU's path with a medical school.

Can you imagine how the status of ETSU would be diminished if this happened? What would set ETSU apart, really, if King were to attempt to do this?

And what if King was able to join the A-Sun, or, even worse, a superior conference (say the Big South)?

Suddenly, ETSU could very well take a seat behind King in local public perception.

For all of you people who say big time athletics don't matter, or that ETSU can't afford a football team- I TELL YOU THEY CANNOT AFFORD NOT TO!

Goldfinger

I have considered this many times. It would be devestating for ETSU...no doubt.
(12-28-2009 11:00 AM)PittsburghBucs Wrote: [ -> ]Has anyone considered what would happen if King tried to go Division I?

I've talked about that with a few people recently. I think the real question is not if, but when will King attempt Div I?? I know that it is a process that takes time. Arent they in the process of transitioning from NAIA to Div II?
I was listening ever so briefly to the King vrs LMU game the other day and I thought the same thing Pitt. Was that game a preview of a future ASUN matchup ?
I think Tusculum will be D1 within 10-15 years as well. They have a lot of money.
(12-28-2009 07:47 PM)Meanmike0001 Wrote: [ -> ]I think Tusculum will be D1 within 10-15 years as well. They have a lot of money.

Unless something dramatically changes at Tusculum, there is no way they will be D1 near term or long term. They are in financial turmoil right now. In fact, The Southern Association of Colleges and Schools has scrutinized Tusculum's budgetary practices the last several years. One of SACS main criticisms is that Tusculum has relied too heavily on Scott Niswonger, who, incidentally, has decreased his contributions to Tusculum in an effort to get them more financially independent. Because Tusculum has operated in the red for the last few years, they recently removed the match for employee retirement plans.

I am less familiar with King's donor base and finanacial situation, though I am highly doubtful that they'll ever make the leap to D1 athletics. Generally, the financial committment is too heavy of a burden for a small private college to shoulder. While I fully recognize King is not Tusculum, Tusculum's dire financial situation illuminates the difficulty of funding a private school and its athletics program, even with a billion-dollar benefactor.
I think the Tri could support 2 D1 schools.. Charleston, SC has 3 in just about the same size market.. at least 2 of them are right down the street from each other..
I don't see why King shouldn't go for it..if they start now, they could be there in 8 to 10 years, and I could see them becoming a program like Belmont or Lipscomb.. Those schools were NAIA not too many years ago.
I frankly not concerned with what other schools do, im worried about ETSU. If King has the financial ability, who cares. The average Tri City resident doesnt care about ETSU athletics anyway, so I dont think it would make any difference to ETSU.

I dont believe it'll be an issue though, I believe the medical school will bankrupt them.
I think it'll be interesting to see what happens with King athletics. I've heard there are problems between the president and Burns, and that Burns is considering retiring. If that happens does Pitts also retire? Also what happens to their radio network. I understand Burns sells all the advertising to pay for it. Also not long ago we heard all kinds of talk about King being interested in starting football, but that talk has quieted. While things may sound exciting from their point of view about moving up to D-II, things sound like they could fall apart suddenly.
Really? There are problems with Dale Burns getting along with someone?
That said, if Pitts leaves King, then the radio leaves with him.

Actually, I think if Bill Meade left Citadel, the radio leaves King, too.

But does anyone see that happening in the near future? I think Stanton leaves ETSU before Pitts leaves King.

68- I'm not sure the Tri-Cities supports its own Division I entity. ETSU dropped football, nobody goes to the non-basketball games (which, honestly, isn't really a shocker or legitimate criticism. It might be nice if the baseball games drew more but realistically what the other sports get is what they are going to get), and men's basketball can't get a boost off an NCAA berth.

Now take all the non-grad fans away from Bristol and Virginia and have them fight 50-50 for Kingsport and it would significantly impact ETSU.

If one of the teams was significantly better and both in Division I, that would have a major impact in local perception.

But, legitimately, if King was in the A-Sun, and ETSU was in the Sun Belt with football, the perception would be similar to MTSU- Lipscomb, if not greater.

That said, if King WANTED to go Division I, ETSU would try to fight it. And the broadcast entities would play it out as ETSU being the bad guy, and so would the BHC, and if it wound up that ETSU kept King out of the A-Sun only to see them in the Big South- the perception would be your ETSU diploma should be printed on toilet paper.

So, again, folks- time to start thinking about bigger and better for ETSU sports- and that doesn't mean lights for the soccer field.
I haven't heard or seen anything anywhere about King being interested in the Big South Conference or the conference in them.. but if they do start a football team, maybe the two could get together.. That is a huge IF.. and something to talk about many years down the road..
Oh, there hasn't been any talk of it.

All I'm doing is speculating. IF King would ever want to go Division I, and you know Burns and Pitts have the ego for it and there are certain things in place, where would they play?

The only two conferences that would make sense would be the Big South or the A-Sun.

I'm not saying King will go Division I. I have no idea. If I had to bet to save my life I would say they wouldn't.

What I am saying is that this COULD happen. It's a reasonable scenario.

And the fact that ETSU is a reasonable scenario away from being on an even level with King shows you how important it is for a new athletic direction to take place at ETSU.
(12-29-2009 09:05 PM)PittsburghBucs Wrote: [ -> ]Oh, there hasn't been any talk of it.

All I'm doing is speculating. IF King would ever want to go Division I, and you know Burns and Pitts have the ego for it and there are certain things in place, where would they play?

The only two conferences that would make sense would be the Big South or the A-Sun.

I'm not saying King will go Division I. I have no idea. If I had to bet to save my life I would say they wouldn't.

What I am saying is that this COULD happen. It's a reasonable scenario.

And the fact that ETSU is a reasonable scenario away from being on an even level with King shows you how important it is for a new athletic direction to take place at ETSU.

C'mon Pitt, you're really grasping now. It is not a reasonable scenario to think that at any point in the near future that King will A. move to Div I and B. compete on a level with ETSU if they were to attempt said move.

They are just beginning the transition to D-II. They are a long ways from D-I. The reality is, if they were to make the transition to D-I somehow, and if somehow they made their way into the ASun, ETSU would crush them in all sports as they currently do now in exhibitions and the Tri-Cities area would see the definite distinction between the two programs.

Pitt, it seems to me that you want nothing more than to see ETSU athletics fail. You claim to want greatness, but your posts seem to point mostly to your own bitterness and vendetta regarding some credential issue you can't get over.

Do you just sit around and come up with scenarios of ways for ETSU to fail? That's what it seems like to me.
I just know the egos of the guys in charge of the athletic programs over there. I wouldn't put it past them to make such a move, and it certainly seems with the medical department over there they are trying to compete with ETSU.

I'm not coming up with ways ETSU can fail. ETSU is doing that themselves.
I once remember hearing a rumor King was going to start football. Guess that never happened.
King won't start football with Pitts and Burns at the helm.
(12-29-2009 10:06 PM)LetsgoBucs Wrote: [ -> ]C'mon Pitt, you're really grasping now. It is not a reasonable scenario to think that at any point in the near future that King will A. move to Div I and B. compete on a level with ETSU if they were to attempt said move.

They are just beginning the transition to D-II. They are a long ways from D-I. The reality is, if they were to make the transition to D-I somehow, and if somehow they made their way into the ASun, ETSU would crush them in all sports as they currently do now in exhibitions and the Tri-Cities area would see the definite distinction between the two programs.

Pitt, it seems to me that you want nothing more than to see ETSU athletics fail. You claim to want greatness, but your posts seem to point mostly to your own bitterness and vendetta regarding some credential issue you can't get over.

Do you just sit around and come up with scenarios of ways for ETSU to fail? That's what it seems like to me.

I suspect the folks over in the Quillen College of Medicine said the same thing a couple of years ago regarding the thought of a med school at King. Fast forward to today, they have $25 million from the Virginia Tobacco Indemnification fund, a site selected, a vote of support from the Sullivan County Commission, the Kingsport City Council, the Bristol TN City Council, and the Bristol VA City Council, along with a pledge of support from Wellmont and Holston Medical Group.

King may never complete their Med School but I don't see Pitt's idea as beyond the realm of possibility and makes for an interesting discussion.
(12-30-2009 08:31 AM)BucDoctor Wrote: [ -> ]
(12-29-2009 10:06 PM)LetsgoBucs Wrote: [ -> ]C'mon Pitt, you're really grasping now. It is not a reasonable scenario to think that at any point in the near future that King will A. move to Div I and B. compete on a level with ETSU if they were to attempt said move.

They are just beginning the transition to D-II. They are a long ways from D-I. The reality is, if they were to make the transition to D-I somehow, and if somehow they made their way into the ASun, ETSU would crush them in all sports as they currently do now in exhibitions and the Tri-Cities area would see the definite distinction between the two programs.

Pitt, it seems to me that you want nothing more than to see ETSU athletics fail. You claim to want greatness, but your posts seem to point mostly to your own bitterness and vendetta regarding some credential issue you can't get over.

Do you just sit around and come up with scenarios of ways for ETSU to fail? That's what it seems like to me.

I suspect the folks over in the Quillen College of Medicine said the same thing a couple of years ago regarding the thought of a med school at King. Fast forward to today, they have $25 million from the Virginia Tobacco Indemnification fund, a site selected, a vote of support from the Sullivan County Commission, the Kingsport City Council, the Bristol TN City Council, and the Bristol VA City Council, along with a pledge of support from Wellmont and Holston Medical Group.

King may never complete their Med School but I don't see Pitt's idea as beyond the realm of possibility and makes for an interesting discussion.

I disagree. I don't see anyway where King could be a threat. If they were to transition to D-I how will they outrecruit ETSU? What do they have to offer? They would not be eligible for the post-season for what 5 years, how are they going to recruit kids in ETSU's backyard by telling them "Hey, we're a brand new D-I program who can't win a conference tournament until after you've graduated"? As has been pointed out ETSU has a tradition in basketball, and a winning one at that. There is also the yearly ritual of King getting pounded by us. What kind of kid looking at all of that is going to decide to go to King over ETSU? (Assuming we'd even be recruiting the same kind of player) I just don't see how this would cause any problems for ETSU athletics. On the contrary I think it could enhance it. Instead of beating an NAIA team in exhibitions, we could beat a D-I team in the regular season and show the area they are the red-headed step-child in the Tri-Cities and we're the cream of the crop.
Also, I think we all should understand the difference between funding a med school and an athletic program. As you pointed out King has $25 million from the Virginia Tobacco Indemnification fund (I'm assuming that's a state entity). No state organizations will be handing out cash for them to start an athletic program. Getting monies from private donors is an entirely different ball game. Wellmont & Holston have a reason to support the med school -> it makes good $ sense for them. There is no such reason for supporting an athletic program.

I think we should all realize by the rise of the Qullien med school and the loss of football at the same time, that $ for a med school does not correlate to $ for athletics.
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