12-23-2009, 01:24 PM
Goldfinger
12-23-2009, 01:27 PM
It's hard to argue with Arizona. But NC State would be close.
12-23-2009, 01:50 PM
(12-23-2009 01:27 PM)Goldfinger Wrote: [ -> ]It's hard to argue with Arizona. But NC State would be close.
I agree Arizona. BTW that will be the next video I put up after the holidays are over. So stay tuned....
12-23-2009, 02:52 PM
One victory that I think has been overlooked is the 2003 Southern Conference Final.
Remember, the Bucs had done well the previous two years but had always slumped in the tournament. They lost to Georgia Southern in 2001 and they lost to C of C in overtime, at Charleston, by a point the following year. It appeared ETSU was destined to always be a bridesmaid, that the tourney appearances of the old days were never going to happen again, etc.
But in beating both College of Charleston and Chattanooga, and quite handily, it restored the image of Bucs basketball as a premier program in the conference.
I wouldn't put it ahead of beating N.C. State, and to be honest I think beating Chattanooga in 1997 was very big because it proved that Ed DeChellis could win here, but we've discounted ETSU 97, Chattanooga 90 for awhile now, and that's unfortunate.
Remember, the Bucs had done well the previous two years but had always slumped in the tournament. They lost to Georgia Southern in 2001 and they lost to C of C in overtime, at Charleston, by a point the following year. It appeared ETSU was destined to always be a bridesmaid, that the tourney appearances of the old days were never going to happen again, etc.
But in beating both College of Charleston and Chattanooga, and quite handily, it restored the image of Bucs basketball as a premier program in the conference.
I wouldn't put it ahead of beating N.C. State, and to be honest I think beating Chattanooga in 1997 was very big because it proved that Ed DeChellis could win here, but we've discounted ETSU 97, Chattanooga 90 for awhile now, and that's unfortunate.
12-23-2009, 03:58 PM
There are several huge wins to choose from...but considering where we live, the looking down their nose orange fans, beating Tennessee for first time has to be it. It gave ETSU creditability...having the home court advantage at Thompson Boling, what a moment. Many ETSU orange rooting students realized their own school could play with the big boys.
Our victory against Arizona was over shadowed by the way the national champion Michigan Fab 5 drilled us...
The classiest win was when Les Robinson brought his NC State team to the dome. He recruited the team that beat him. At the start of the game we gave Les a standing O. At the end of the game we were a little rude shouting..."go home Les, go home!" I wonder if Les ever regrets leaving the machine he built? How ironic scheduling the school you used to coach but scheduling it when you were at the old school and having to come in to play your own players. Was it impossible to maintain? What if he sustained it? The coaching staff he had was killer...
If Les never left, could ETSU be a "Gonzaga" now? Could we still be drawing crowds in excess of 10-thousand on a regular basis? I'm still mad that Les was critical over the way ETSU dealt with the great LeForce but we were losing momentum and in hope against hope we were trying to find someone to get it back...Shulman has had some good UTC teams but has not made it into the national spot light...although that 7-footer he's got is pretty darn good. What if UTC made a tournament run like our old buddy Mack did...would we call Shulman home?... no way. We have Murry who has proven competent, good recruiter but hasn't been able to go to the next level. When Les got the chance, he made a name by beating name teams.
We don't seem to have anyone to fund where we need to go. Here is hoping our successful medical school graduates remember their alma mater. Let's hope some of them "cash in" like "inventing some thing like the aspirin."
Our victory against Arizona was over shadowed by the way the national champion Michigan Fab 5 drilled us...
The classiest win was when Les Robinson brought his NC State team to the dome. He recruited the team that beat him. At the start of the game we gave Les a standing O. At the end of the game we were a little rude shouting..."go home Les, go home!" I wonder if Les ever regrets leaving the machine he built? How ironic scheduling the school you used to coach but scheduling it when you were at the old school and having to come in to play your own players. Was it impossible to maintain? What if he sustained it? The coaching staff he had was killer...
If Les never left, could ETSU be a "Gonzaga" now? Could we still be drawing crowds in excess of 10-thousand on a regular basis? I'm still mad that Les was critical over the way ETSU dealt with the great LeForce but we were losing momentum and in hope against hope we were trying to find someone to get it back...Shulman has had some good UTC teams but has not made it into the national spot light...although that 7-footer he's got is pretty darn good. What if UTC made a tournament run like our old buddy Mack did...would we call Shulman home?... no way. We have Murry who has proven competent, good recruiter but hasn't been able to go to the next level. When Les got the chance, he made a name by beating name teams.
We don't seem to have anyone to fund where we need to go. Here is hoping our successful medical school graduates remember their alma mater. Let's hope some of them "cash in" like "inventing some thing like the aspirin."
12-23-2009, 04:15 PM
(12-23-2009 03:58 PM)Mister Jennings Wrote: [ -> ]I wonder if Les ever regrets leaving the machine he built? How ironic scheduling the school you used to coach but scheduling it when you were at the old school and having to come in to play your own players. Was it impossible to maintain? What if he sustained it? The coaching staff he had was killer...
If Les never left, could ETSU be a "Gonzaga" now? Could we still be drawing crowds in excess of 10-thousand on a regular basis?
I often wonder the same things about Les. Keep in mind that ETSU went to Raleigh the next season, during Les' second year there, and beat them again and even a larger margin that time around. NC State hasn't played us since....
Living in the Raleigh / Durham area and listening to local sports talk shows, a lot of NC State fans around here aren't big fans of Les, and some even refer to him as being one of the worst coaches they've ever had. You just have to wonder if he regrets leaving ETSU where he has always been very well respected by the fans, for his Alma Mater where the fans have very little respect of him.
He was defiantly onto something at ETSU and I truly believe he could have built something great if he had stayed.
Goldfinger
12-23-2009, 04:27 PM
I don't know what Les said...but I was very much against the way this town treated Leforce his last season here.
12-23-2009, 05:54 PM
Biggest victory- USC-Upstate or UNF.
12-23-2009, 06:26 PM
HOW was LeForce treated?
As for Les staying, I think you have to look and see that he was the AD when NCSU had a great demise.
I recall when I was a sportswriter for the Wheeling Intelligencer there was talk of the WVU coach going to NCSU. And one of the younger sportswriters just couldn't understand why any coach would want to leave WVU for N.C. State.
That showed me just how far NCSU fell in terms of recognition. Admittedly, even in their salad days their critics called them "The Billy Carter of the ACC," but growing up the UNC-NCSU rivalry was considered even bigger than the UNC-Duke rivalry, and it could be argued that the Wolfpack were one of the five most prestigious programs in the country at one time.
They weren't after Robinson left.
You can talk about how Jimmy V left the program, or how Robinson coming after him was akin to replacing a legend. But Robinson ultimately became the AD at NCSU, and one does not leave NCSU to become the athletic director at The Citadel without feeling some heat first.
As for Les staying, I think you have to look and see that he was the AD when NCSU had a great demise.
I recall when I was a sportswriter for the Wheeling Intelligencer there was talk of the WVU coach going to NCSU. And one of the younger sportswriters just couldn't understand why any coach would want to leave WVU for N.C. State.
That showed me just how far NCSU fell in terms of recognition. Admittedly, even in their salad days their critics called them "The Billy Carter of the ACC," but growing up the UNC-NCSU rivalry was considered even bigger than the UNC-Duke rivalry, and it could be argued that the Wolfpack were one of the five most prestigious programs in the country at one time.
They weren't after Robinson left.
You can talk about how Jimmy V left the program, or how Robinson coming after him was akin to replacing a legend. But Robinson ultimately became the AD at NCSU, and one does not leave NCSU to become the athletic director at The Citadel without feeling some heat first.
12-23-2009, 07:08 PM
Les left for NCSU because he was a NCSU grad..it was his dream job..
Jimmy V left them in terrible shape.. they really have never recovered from what he did to that program...Les put up his shoe money..don't remember which company..to make it possible for V's former players to come back to school to graduate..
Jimmy V left them in terrible shape.. they really have never recovered from what he did to that program...Les put up his shoe money..don't remember which company..to make it possible for V's former players to come back to school to graduate..
12-23-2009, 09:54 PM
Of course, Valvano DID leave N.C. State with a lot of backcourt talent.
Look, I understand there were sanctions, but the end result is that this was once one of the five most prestigious programs in college basketball, in my opinion, and the slide began when Robinson was the coach.
When Robinson got there, they were a perennial NCAA Tournament team. I'm not saying Robinson didn't have handicaps placed on him, but by the time he left N.C. State was a bad team and not a great program any longer.
Look, I understand there were sanctions, but the end result is that this was once one of the five most prestigious programs in college basketball, in my opinion, and the slide began when Robinson was the coach.
When Robinson got there, they were a perennial NCAA Tournament team. I'm not saying Robinson didn't have handicaps placed on him, but by the time he left N.C. State was a bad team and not a great program any longer.
Goldfinger
12-23-2009, 10:03 PM
Robinson had Chris Corchiani, Rodney Monroe, and Tom Gugliotta when he arrived. That's a more powerful big three than what we had last year in Mike Smith, Courtney Pigram, and Kevin Tiggs.
12-23-2009, 11:16 PM
(12-23-2009 06:26 PM)PittsburghBucs Wrote: [ -> ]HOW was LeForce treated?
As for Les staying, I think you have to look and see that he was the AD when NCSU had a great demise.
I recall when I was a sportswriter for the Wheeling Intelligencer there was talk of the WVU coach going to NCSU. And one of the younger sportswriters just couldn't understand why any coach would want to leave WVU for N.C. State.
That showed me just how far NCSU fell in terms of recognition. Admittedly, even in their salad days their critics called them "The Billy Carter of the ACC," but growing up the UNC-NCSU rivalry was considered even bigger than the UNC-Duke rivalry, and it could be argued that the Wolfpack were one of the five most prestigious programs in the country at one time.
They weren't after Robinson left.
You can talk about how Jimmy V left the program, or how Robinson coming after him was akin to replacing a legend. But Robinson ultimately became the AD at NCSU, and one does not leave NCSU to become the athletic director at The Citadel without feeling some heat first.
I'm not talking about the job Les did at NC State... at ETSU he did an incredible job...perhaps even miraculous...not only for basketball but for the entire athletic department. If there is one guy who would thumb his nose at the big money of NC State... I thought it would be Les... alma mater or not.
As for LeForce...the mistreatment Les referred to was the firing of his friend. Les felt Alan deserved better. If he could have recruited, he probably would still be the coach.
12-23-2009, 11:54 PM
I always felt Alan LeForce was the sort of coach who treated his players like men, and during his final years at ETSU, his "men" behaved like little boys.
Maybe it wasn't so much his lack of recruiting ability. Maybe his faith in his fellow man backfired on him with a group of players who weren't as motivated as they could be.
I think of Titus Shelton. Certainly there was a nice prospect- a former Mr. South Carolina Basketball if memory serves- and he didn't make the grade.
Lots of guys on that team were that way. LeForce left ETSU with one eligible player.
And other people who he recruited- like Lee Walker- had talent, but in the case of Walker he had the tragedy of losing his father before the one season he played here and as a result left school early to play professionally overseas.
I think LeForce was the third best coach at ETSU during the NCAA years, behind Brooks and DeCHELLIS.
And I'm not slighting Robinson, but I honestly rank LeForce higher for reasons I've discussed over the years.
Maybe it wasn't so much his lack of recruiting ability. Maybe his faith in his fellow man backfired on him with a group of players who weren't as motivated as they could be.
I think of Titus Shelton. Certainly there was a nice prospect- a former Mr. South Carolina Basketball if memory serves- and he didn't make the grade.
Lots of guys on that team were that way. LeForce left ETSU with one eligible player.
And other people who he recruited- like Lee Walker- had talent, but in the case of Walker he had the tragedy of losing his father before the one season he played here and as a result left school early to play professionally overseas.
I think LeForce was the third best coach at ETSU during the NCAA years, behind Brooks and DeCHELLIS.
And I'm not slighting Robinson, but I honestly rank LeForce higher for reasons I've discussed over the years.
12-24-2009, 08:35 AM
Robinson won with the players that were there when he became coach at NC State..I think he was coach of the year in the ACC his first year. But he took over a program at NCSU that was under NCAA sanctions and had so many academic suspensions that by 1992 he could only dress seven players .. the ACC is a tough league.. and he was not able to return the team to greatness.. and none of the other coaches since him have been able to do much either..
NCSU forced Valvano out.. and I believe ever coach since him has had the same fate.
NCSU forced Valvano out.. and I believe ever coach since him has had the same fate.
12-24-2009, 04:37 PM
IMO Les Robinson is one of the most warm and personable men I've ever been around. He was very comfortable around almost anyone from the custodian to the chairman of the board. I don't know if he was the greatest "Xs and Os" guy but he was a great people person. I thought he did a lot to bring support for ETSU at the time just from his friendly style and manner.
12-24-2009, 05:42 PM
That might explain why he never received any criticism for not having a play that would get ETSU a shot past the time line in the last four seconds of the 1989 NCAA Tournament against Oklahoma.
12-24-2009, 08:37 PM
(12-24-2009 04:37 PM)seagrove10 Wrote: [ -> ]IMO Les Robinson is one of the most warm and personable men I've ever been around. He was very comfortable around almost anyone from the custodian to the chairman of the board. I don't know if he was the greatest "Xs and Os" guy but he was a great people person. I thought he did a lot to bring support for ETSU at the time just from his friendly style and manner.
LeForce was the "Xs and Os" guy, Les was the recruiter.
Together they were a great team.
Separate, not so great.
12-24-2009, 08:39 PM
(12-24-2009 08:37 PM)Chatta-Buc84 Wrote: [ -> ](12-24-2009 04:37 PM)seagrove10 Wrote: [ -> ]IMO Les Robinson is one of the most warm and personable men I've ever been around. He was very comfortable around almost anyone from the custodian to the chairman of the board. I don't know if he was the greatest "Xs and Os" guy but he was a great people person. I thought he did a lot to bring support for ETSU at the time just from his friendly style and manner.
LeForce was the "Xs and Os" guy, Les was the recruiter.
Together they were a great team.
Separate, not so great.
Sounds like a pretty good analysis.