I'm a little biased on Jones because I believe he is the real deal and is really building a program by addressing everything he controls. My current ranking:
1. CMU - Jones
2. Ohio - Solich
3. Buffalo - Gill
4. NIU - Kill
5. Temple - Golden
6. WMU - Cubit
7. BGSU - Clauson
8. Toledo - Beckman
9. Akron - Brookhardt
10. KSU - Martin
13. Miami - Haywood
13. BSU - Parrish
13. EMU - English
1. CMU - Jones, Far and away...
2. Ohio - Solich, From the warm seat to the lead in the east
3. Toledo - Beckman, hard to argue with this season
4. NIU - Kill, Two seasons, loss of star sitll fielding a good team
5. WMU - Cubit, Has done well over the years
6. Buffalo - Gill, Needs to prove he can do it more than once
7. Temple - Golden, Needs to start beating teams with winning records
8. BGSU - Clauson, Promise with no proof
9. Akron - Brookhardt, On the way out this year..
10. Miami - Haywood, Hard schedule this season, will get better
11. EMU - English, Could you turn EMU around any faster?
12. KSU - Martin, There is a reason he is the lowest paid in FBS
13. BSU - Parrish, Just win, sometime....
What is the ranking... all aspects???
(10-19-2009 10:05 AM)victory engineer Wrote: [ -> ]What is the ranking... all aspects???
I kind of spit balled mine... Past performance counts but so does present and mitigating circumstances and perceived potential (Kill). The slow start this year (3-4, 1-2 Just where we were last season) is a killer for Gill..
if you did some ratio of where you start to today...
A1. Kill has to be near the top for sure. I think he should be #2 or #3, he took over a bad team and made them good quickly.
A2.Cubit... solid top 3
A3. Butch Jones... has never had to start from scratch... or won the big game... you can say he did this year against Michigan state.. but lets win a bowl game ... please. Top 3 but far and away is a stretch
B1.Turner is a very good coach. he fixed buffalo in short order and is building a solid program.
B2.FS has been at Ohio for what seems to be forever... I say about time. What coaching mastery has he done? I would put him in the also ran category for now. 28-28 at ohio...
B3.AG... he is winning but what has he won? came from zero so you can only hold his historical record against him so much...
Everyone else is impossible to rank.
(10-19-2009 10:28 AM)victory engineer Wrote: [ -> ]A3. Butch Jones... has never had to start from scratch... or won the big game... you can say he did this year against Michigan state.. but lets win a bowl game ... please. Top 3 but far and away is a stretch
Just for clarification sake, Jones was the coach when CMU won the MAC Championship in 2007. I'd call that a pretty big game as that is what most teams in the MAC are aiming for, not a bowl win.
But, I'll agree with you that he's had problems in the 2 bowl games he coached, against Purdue and FAU.
(10-19-2009 10:28 AM)victory engineer Wrote: [ -> ]if you did some ratio of where you start to today...
A1. Kill has to be near the top for sure. I think he should be #2 or #3, he took over a bad team and made them good quickly.
A2.Cubit... solid top 3
A3. Butch Jones... has never had to start from scratch... or won the big game... you can say he did this year against Michigan state.. but lets win a bowl game ... please. Top 3 but far and away is a stretch
B1.Turner is a very good coach. he fixed buffalo in short order and is building a solid program.
B2.FS has been at Ohio for what seems to be forever... I say about time. What coaching mastery has he done? I would put him in the also ran category for now. 28-28 at ohio...
B3.AG... he is winning but what has he won? came from zero so you can only hold his historical record against him so much...
Everyone else is impossible to rank.
To rate Cubit ahead of Jones has zero credibility. Win a bowl game? How many has Cubit or Kill won? Kelly didn't leave Jones near what you believe. There were many problems and shortcomings for him to address. He will leave the CMU program much better than he found it when he leaves. Unfortunately I think that may be much sooner than most CMU fans would like.
(10-19-2009 10:38 AM)Arrohead Wrote: [ -> ] (10-19-2009 10:28 AM)victory engineer Wrote: [ -> ]if you did some ratio of where you start to today...
A1. Kill has to be near the top for sure. I think he should be #2 or #3, he took over a bad team and made them good quickly.
A2.Cubit... solid top 3
A3. Butch Jones... has never had to start from scratch... or won the big game... you can say he did this year against Michigan state.. but lets win a bowl game ... please. Top 3 but far and away is a stretch
B1.Turner is a very good coach. he fixed buffalo in short order and is building a solid program.
B2.FS has been at Ohio for what seems to be forever... I say about time. What coaching mastery has he done? I would put him in the also ran category for now. 28-28 at ohio...
B3.AG... he is winning but what has he won? came from zero so you can only hold his historical record against him so much...
Everyone else is impossible to rank.
To rate Cubit ahead of Jones has zero credibility. Win a bowl game? How many has Cubit or Kill won? Kelly didn't leave Jones near what you believe. There were many problems and shortcomings for him to address. He will leave the CMU program much better than he found it when he leaves. Unfortunately I think that may be much sooner than most CMU fans would like.
while its not clear all A coaches are in my mind tied for #1. They are top level coaches, coaches that should coach till they are 70 and win most games for any team at any level.... they are the premier MAC coaches... I think there are so many factors ...
Cubit can flat out coach took over an 0–8 in the MAC team... I think he could do just as good or better with the CMU team. over a ten year span... Cubit wins more games..
Put KILL at #8 with Clauson for the same reason.
(10-19-2009 10:42 AM)victory engineer Wrote: [ -> ] (10-19-2009 10:38 AM)Arrohead Wrote: [ -> ] (10-19-2009 10:28 AM)victory engineer Wrote: [ -> ]if you did some ratio of where you start to today...
A1. Kill has to be near the top for sure. I think he should be #2 or #3, he took over a bad team and made them good quickly.
A2.Cubit... solid top 3
A3. Butch Jones... has never had to start from scratch... or won the big game... you can say he did this year against Michigan state.. but lets win a bowl game ... please. Top 3 but far and away is a stretch
B1.Turner is a very good coach. he fixed buffalo in short order and is building a solid program.
B2.FS has been at Ohio for what seems to be forever... I say about time. What coaching mastery has he done? I would put him in the also ran category for now. 28-28 at ohio...
B3.AG... he is winning but what has he won? came from zero so you can only hold his historical record against him so much...
Everyone else is impossible to rank.
To rate Cubit ahead of Jones has zero credibility. Win a bowl game? How many has Cubit or Kill won? Kelly didn't leave Jones near what you believe. There were many problems and shortcomings for him to address. He will leave the CMU program much better than he found it when he leaves. Unfortunately I think that may be much sooner than most CMU fans would like.
while its not clear all A coaches are in my mind tied for #1. They are top level coaches, coaches that should coach till they are 70 and win most games for any team at any level.... they are the premier MAC coaches... I think there are so many factors ...
Cubit can flat out coach took over an 0–8 in the MAC team... I think he could do just as good or better with the CMU team. over a ten year span... Cubit wins more games.. no credibility... nice... please child 29-20
What's stopping him from recruiting his own players to win a championship?
(10-19-2009 10:28 AM)victory engineer Wrote: [ -> ]if you did some ratio of where you start to today...
A1. Kill has to be near the top for sure. I think he should be #2 or #3, he took over a bad team and made them good quickly.
Kill took over a team that lost five games by a total of 16 points and had approx. 20 season ending injuries to players the year before. The team he inherited had a bunch of seniors and with most of those injured players back he should have had a good turnaround.
However, as our coach, he has a 3-7 record (.300 winning %) in games decided by 7 points or less.
Not sure how Beckman at Toledo could be below Clauson at BG. Remember, Beckman took over a program that had 3 straight losing seasons and went 3-9 last year. We already have more wins this year at 4-3 and are 2-1 in the MAC. Clauson inherited a team that had a winning record and was supposed to compete in the MAC East this year.
IMO, the best coaches have to include a coach that can turn a program around quickly. Jones at CMU is doing a heck of a job of course. Golden at Temple is getting it done. Kill at NIU. Solich at Ohio, and Beckman at Toledo. Not sure what the order should be for these five, but they should be the top five, IMO.
(10-19-2009 10:38 AM)Arrohead Wrote: [ -> ] (10-19-2009 10:28 AM)victory engineer Wrote: [ -> ]if you did some ratio of where you start to today...
A1. Kill has to be near the top for sure. I think he should be #2 or #3, he took over a bad team and made them good quickly.
A2.Cubit... solid top 3
A3. Butch Jones... has never had to start from scratch... or won the big game... you can say he did this year against Michigan state.. but lets win a bowl game ... please. Top 3 but far and away is a stretch
B1.Turner is a very good coach. he fixed buffalo in short order and is building a solid program.
B2.FS has been at Ohio for what seems to be forever... I say about time. What coaching mastery has he done? I would put him in the also ran category for now. 28-28 at ohio...
B3.AG... he is winning but what has he won? came from zero so you can only hold his historical record against him so much...
Everyone else is impossible to rank.
To rate Cubit ahead of Jones has zero credibility. Win a bowl game? How many has Cubit or Kill won? Kelly didn't leave Jones near what you believe. There were many problems and shortcomings for him to address. He will leave the CMU program much better than he found it when he leaves. Unfortunately I think that may be much sooner than most CMU fans would like.
This is bad timing but Cubit never played a Sun Belt team w/a 6-6 record in bowl game. As VE (your now my favorite Owl and because of you I will stop berating JH) pointed out Jones took over the Lefevour led Kelly MAC Championship team, nuff said. Cubit took over a team that only beat Tennessee Martin. Both teams are fairly equal but the breaks have gone your way lately.
Ask this question another way: "Who will be the first coach from that list to be snatched up by a BCS program?" I fear the answer is Jones. Obviously, it sounded as if Gill had opportunities last year.
Also, Jones helped recruit LeFevour and others when he was here as an assistant, so these aren't solely Kelly's recruits.
Martin gets paid the way he does for a reason. No results...
(10-19-2009 01:01 PM)CMUprof Wrote: [ -> ]Ask this question another way: "Who will be the first coach from that list to be snatched up by a BCS program?" I fear the answer is Jones. Obviously, it sounded as if Gill had opportunities last year.
Also, Jones helped recruit LeFevour and others when he was here as an assistant, so these aren't solely Kelly's recruits.
This year Jones would appear first man out, next year who knows. Ask Gill about last year. Theres no doubt that was a peak season for him. Can't get any better than Champ.
Hoke left BSU even for a non BCS job because he knew it was not getting better than last year. Its all timing.
BTW - It's Clawson
(10-19-2009 11:57 AM)rocketfootball Wrote: [ -> ]Not sure how Beckman at Toledo could be below Clauson at BG. Remember, Beckman took over a program that had 3 straight losing seasons and went 3-9 last year. We already have more wins this year at 4-3 and are 2-1 in the MAC. Clauson inherited a team that had a winning record and was supposed to compete in the MAC East this year.
IMO, the best coaches have to include a coach that can turn a program around quickly. Jones at CMU is doing a heck of a job of course. Golden at Temple is getting it done. Kill at NIU. Solich at Ohio, and Beckman at Toledo. Not sure what the order should be for these five, but they should be the top five, IMO.
UT returned far more talent than BG did. And the UT fans have always told us you have way more talent and that Amstutz and the coordinators were just not coaching them properly.
You just got blown out at home by a underachieving Western team.
All 4 of BG's loses were to good teams (2 of them were ranked) all but Boise were one score games and all 4 teams have winning records.
Toledo barely beat an awful Ball State team, beat an awful FIU team (who only has one win over the worst team in D1, Western Kentucky)
Beckman gets major props for the NIU win which was by far his biggest and some props for the Colorado win, but I watched that game and the Colorado QB was arguably the worst QB I have ever seen at a BCS school.
But bottom line, it's all subjective anyway so who really cares
Just ask yourself this question. If I could choose any MAC coach to coach my team, who would that be and in what order? No explanation needed, the explanation will be in the answer.
I think Cubit is a heck of a coach. He turned around the program quickly. WMU fans may be dogging him now but i think they would appreciate him more if he was gone.