Quote:FSU releases NCAA transcripts: Some 'Noles reading on 2nd-grade level?
By Matt Hinton from Yahoo!
After months of appeals, wrangling over public records laws and the usual backbiting between the university and the NCAA, an appellate court finally gave Florida State the go-ahead Wednesday to release a 695-page transcript of its Oct. 18, 2008 hearing before the NCAA's Committee on Infractions, testimony from which was used to smack multiple sports at FSU in March with probation, minor scholarship restrictions and -- most notably in light of Bobby Bowden's quixotic pursuit of the career wins record -- vacated wins for playing ineligible players later accused of cheating in an online course ("Musical Cultures of the World") in 2006 and 2007. The transcript didn't tell us a whole lot we didn't already know. (Although it is, like, 700 pages long, so a few people are still reading.)
The news is probably more notable for public records scholars -- the NCAA infractions process is a notoriously secretive ordeal, and it fought tooth-and-nail to keep it that way -- than football fans, but the released documents did shed some light on a few specific details of the Florida State's violations, and of the school's subsequent investigation and defense, most of it painting "an unflattering portrait of Florida State’s professors and administrators," according to the New York Times. But certainly not nearly as unflattering as the portrait it painted of some of FSU's players, academically speaking, or the stops pulled out on their behalf by (to use FSU president T.K. Wetherell's term) a "rogue tutor":
Brenda Monk, a learning specialist hired to work with athletes who had learning and physical disabilities, was accused of improperly helping students type, edit and write their papers. Monk, who testified that some of those athletes had a second-grade reading level, was accused of committing academic fraud. In one case, she was said to have let students use a study guide that had answers to exam questions for an online music course.
Monk has left the university and filed a defamation suit against Florida State.
In their defense, second-graders are very advanced these days, what with the Baby Einstein and secret genetic engineering programs Congress slipped into an appropriations bill; some of the contemporary seven-year-old's favorite television shows also captivate the Miami Hurricanes. (And vicious, highly educated commenters, please, consider how the unusually high clusters of "criminal justice" and "recreational administration" majors on your own squad might fare by the same standard before you hit that spittle-flecked 'return' key.)
We can still assume that every Seminole at least knows how to count to 14, which remains the relevant number: As it stands, FSU still has to wipe 14 victories from Bowden's career total, a fate that may actually be looking more and more attractive to him -- if you remove those wins from the 2006-07 seasons, the unfolding disaster in 2009 suddenly looks like an improvement.
I am not one bit surprised by this revelation, but it goes much further than just FSU. This kind of tragedy may be the case at a great number of D-I schools, especially the state-run schools.
Look no further than the two SEC schools in this state. I know players in HS that played for both that was not as smart as the FSU kids in that transcript. This is basically going 80 in a 65MPH speed zone for them and no one will turn the other in for something they all do.
I work with a guy who went to high school with Van Tiffin. Said if brains were dynamite, he couldn't blow his nose.
A conversation we had on the subject:
He: I still don't see how he graduated.
Me: Alabama?
He: No. Red Bay.
Well, this will probably get Bowden and Paterno to retire now. It's pointless for Bowden because he can never catch Paterno nad Paterno can safely hang it up the day after Bowden announces.
Sounds like Alvin Mack in The Program.
"I can read. See that shoe- it says Adidas."
Junior Rosegreen, the All-SEC safety at Auburn from the undefeated 2003 team, scored a whopping 2 on his Wonderlic test (out of a possible 50...10 is considered literate...20 is average). He had been projected as a 2nd or 3rd rounder up until that point, but went undrafted because NFL teams doubted that he was intelligent enough to grasp an NFL playbook. UAT linebacker Freddie Roach followed that up the next year with another single digit score. A nine, IIRC. Yet they both have degrees from their respective universities.
...reading on 2nd-grade level
I'm not surprised, not one bit.
That's why I like the fact that we're tightening our admissions standards. I know we all go around and around about this topic, but these young men are students first, and I think CNC and staff have made us very proud in that regard. There's a lot of work left to do on the gridiron, but there are 6 games after this Saturday that are all very winnable.
And on the other hand, dammit, I want that degree on my office wall to mean something. The tighter our standards go, the better our degrees are valued. St. Louis had a similar conversation on the C*USA board with respect to UCFs student body growing larger than the number of chicks Charlie Sheen has...well, ya know.
"That's why I like the fact that we're tightening our admissions standards."
I agree with the FN point, but that's only a start. Admissions standards can be bypassed with some effort (see "Rose, Derrick"). It's just as important to hold to standards in the classroom and that "rogue tutor" line says a lot - how valuable is that degree when a large chunk of classes is taught by adjuncts holding only an MA, with no training in teaching and essentially no oversight? And how can one expect an adjunct making $1,200/course, or a tutor making 10 bucks an hour, who can be fired on the spot without recourse, without the endless committees and protections offered "real" faculty, to resist a Famous Name asking for "just a little favor"?
Academia is a stable to rival that of King Augeus, and athletics is just one stall.
Im sure jeremy Mayfield had to be close to a 2 also
(10-16-2009 11:07 AM)blaazed247 Wrote: [ -> ]Im sure jeremy Mayfield had to be close to a 2 also
And at many other schools, he would be the starting center. Jeremy Mayfield only serves to prove the point that UAB standards are firm.
(10-16-2009 09:27 AM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ]I work with a guy who went to high school with Van Tiffin. Said if brains were dynamite, he couldn't blow his nose.
A conversation we had on the subject:
He: I still don't see how he graduated.
Me: Alabama?
He: No. Red Bay.
He didn't graduate from Red Bay. He went to Muscle Shoals HS... Maybe he couldn't pass academically at RB
In 84, I sat next to a basketball player in a class. We had one test the entire quarter and he made a 24 on it. I know it because I saw it. However, he made a 'B' in the class.......
High school diplomas don't mean the same thing as Post-Secondary diplomas. High schools are run as supportive institutions that admit all who show up at the front door, who stay in school and achieve district-set standards for "passing" work, who conduct themselves well enough in class and in extra-curricular activities to warrant support from the teachers and administration to be graduated. It is an atmosphere where success for every student is the goal and is expected.
Post-Secondary education at the college / university level is more exclusive. One must have a certain grade-point average and a certain minimum ACT or SAT score to enter. Then you enter into a competition for the 60% to 70% of passing grades allowed for various courses. As long as you are able to stay above an arbitrary "cut-off point" set by the professor or his institution, you remain a candidate for a diploma. If any professor should neglect this rule of "a certain percent MUST fail", he does so at the risk of his reputation and career. Just ask the Auburn Sociology Dean who passed all his students on an independent study project (only a few were athletes) who found himself demoted and publicly centured for his error. Bama just bragged about its athletes graduating at 70% when its general student body graduated at 64%. What is there in either figure to BRAG about? First they brag about how selective they are in admissions and then admit to only being successful in teaching 64% of general students and only 6% better for those who have the benefit of hoards of private tutors and preferential scheduling of classes and "athletically friendly" professors working in their favor?
I have written here before about Learning Disabilites and the FACT that a student can have AVERAGE or BETTER intellect but have an LD problem that makes it difficult for him/her to learn in the ways most of us do. They require special help and in Alabama , many school districts don't have the wealth to hire the specialists to identify and then work with these students. It is not as simple as some would prefer to believe that people are either "smart" or they are "dumb" and , of course, they put themselves in the "smart" group.
"If any professor should neglect this rule of "a certain percent MUST fail", he does so at the risk of his reputation and career."
There are actually institutions where this exists, but UAB is not one of them nor is Auburn. The slimy sociologist wasn't out to benefit athletes: that was just a side effect for those "All-Academic SEC" players of theirs. Rather, directed readings count toward your teaching load, with the ratio set by the university or school or department (varies from place to place). By "teaching" all these students he never saw, he could blow off ever having to waste his time in a classroom and probably qualified for bonus pay/privileges for the teaching overload.
(10-16-2009 02:16 PM)blazinrunner Wrote: [ -> ] (10-16-2009 09:27 AM)Smaug Wrote: [ -> ]I work with a guy who went to high school with Van Tiffin. Said if brains were dynamite, he couldn't blow his nose.
A conversation we had on the subject:
He: I still don't see how he graduated.
Me: Alabama?
He: No. Red Bay.
He didn't graduate from Red Bay. He went to Muscle Shoals HS... Maybe he couldn't pass academically at RB
You're thinking of Leigh Tiffin. Van Tiffin (Leigh's dad) graduated from Red Bay.