CSNbbs

I live next to Canada. Can see Canada from my house. (Pelee Island) I've visited Canada on numerous occasions. I've asked about their health care. They love it. Not like it. LOVE IT!!! There's so much disinformation out there. Put a national sales tax on and be done with it. Get rid of the income tax or modify it. Go with the VAT to make imports more expensive and exports cheaper and balance the damn budget. Literally hands in my head shaking in disbleief. No one likes the tax system we have now. Everybody should pony up imho. A national sales tax along with the VAT.


BTW I'd let Torch pick the phone numbers. I want to see his face when the guy or gal on the other end raves about their care. I have. At the Greg Ferwin magic show at intermission at the pisser. I asked. Guy loved it. Had a by pass surgery the year prior. At the Windsor casino. Asked a waitress delivering me a black coffee. LOVED IT. At the breakfast buffet in line asked the guy making my omelette. You know the answer. I didn't find one person who talked bad about universal health care and that's the reason the right is so terrified. Fck whether it's better for the country. You guys are putting party before country imho.

(08-05-2009 11:37 AM)Machiavelli Wrote: [ -> ]I live next to Canada. Can see Canada from my house. (Pelee Island) I've visited Canada on numerous occasions. I've asked about their health care. They love it. Not like it. LOVE IT!!! There's so much disinformation out there. Put a national sales tax on and be done with it. Get rid of the income tax or modify it. Go with the VAT to make imports more expensive and exports cheaper and balance the damn budget. Literally hands in my head shaking in disbleief. No one likes the tax system we have now. Everybody should pony up imho. A national sales tax along with the VAT.
BTW I'd let Torch pick the phone numbers. I want to see his face when the guy or gal on the other end raves about their care. I have. At the Greg Ferwin magic show at intermission at the pisser. I asked. Guy loved it. Had a by pass surgery the year prior. At the Windsor casino. Asked a waitress delivering me a black coffee. LOVED IT. At the breakfast buffet in line asked the guy making my omelette. You know the answer. I didn't find one person who talked bad about universal health care and that's the reason the right is so terrified. Fck whether it's better for the country. You guys are putting party before country imho.

It (or something very near to it) has been done. The results came out a bit different from what you predict:

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/seton-motle...ult-bad-mo

I've had a comparable number of opportunities to talk health care with Brits. They HATE their NHS. Totally 180 degrees out from what you report.

The heart bypass story is the one I'd like to know more about. Did he have connections, or was it luck of the draw that he got treated? Where did he live?

You've started this exact thread before Mach about Canada and it always goes the same direction.

We point out the few people you talk to aren't exactly a solid sampling. Then we produce study after study that shows the issues Canada has. Then we point out that Canada doesn't have 350+ million people like we have, or have the military obligations we have etc. We point all that out to show you how uninformed your view on this is. Then you stop posting for a while, then you come back and start the thread again.

Can a mod just sticky this one so we don't have to go through it every other month?

(08-05-2009 11:37 AM)Machiavelli Wrote: [ -> ]BTW I'd let Torch pick the phone numbers. I want to see his face when the guy or gal on the other end raves about their care.

Just for the record, my college roommate was from Toronto. So I do speak fluent Canadian.

Yep, they love it so much that they don't want to hog all of it's greatness to themselves, so they come to the US for treatment instead.

Mach, if you can see Oh, Canada, go live there. Teach the little Canooks how evil the US is.

Niner... pretty funny,

Now I say and type this every other month because I put in the leg work. I could give two ***** what some myth buster pollster says because I know what I know. That's why we get skype. We find an area code of a someplace in Ontario. 5 of us spit out numbers right after each other. Totally random. I bet you guys would be surprised.

SOAF ,

I've thought about it many times. I love the cold. Keeps out the rif raf. You have to be hearty and tough to stand an extreme winter. I could live in the Upper Penninsula or Wisconsin any day. I can always get warmer but when I'm hot I can't get colder. Canada would suit me just fine. Too many family in Ohio though. Maybe when I retire. Boyne Michigan would be nice.

You might actually get more who approve than disapprove (although Krugman certainly didn't). But you would be in error to infer from that what I think you're trying to infer.

Let's look at the demographics.

Let's assume 40% of the Canadian population have had a major medical problem, or have a close friend or family member who has. 99% of those people are going to hate the Canadian system, because it does a very poor job of delivering services in those situatioins. I'm really quite amazed by your story about he heart bypass patient. That really goes against the run of play up there. I'd like to know more about his/her unique situation.

What it does well is the kinds of service delivery scenarios that 60% of us have experienced nothing but--tetanus shots, amoxycillin prescriptions, etc. The people who have never been really sick will love the Canadian system becuase it meets their needs and is free.

So if a poll turned out 60-40 in favor, it wouldn't mean that 60% thought it was a great system, so much as that 60% had never experienced a major medical emergency, so they liked the fact that their tetanus shots were free.

Mach, trying not to be too personal here, but you would not want to go through what you've gone through in the Canadian system. I know you are probably thinking that it'd be great because you wouldn't have to come out of pocket for as much as you have, and you wouldn't have had so many arguments with insurance companies. In Canada, those arguments would have been with the government, and the first time some bureucrat said "no," the plug would have been pulled. And you couldn't have done anything about it. I'm sorry ilf that's too personal, but that's what would have happened in Canada. I really don't think that's what you want.

(08-05-2009 11:37 AM)Machiavelli Wrote: [ -> ]I live next to Canada. Can see Canada from my house. (Pelee Island) I've visited Canada on numerous occasions. I've asked about their health care. They love it. Not like it. LOVE IT!!! There's so much disinformation out there. Put a national sales tax on and be done with it. Get rid of the income tax or modify it. Go with the VAT to make imports more expensive and exports cheaper and balance the damn budget. Literally hands in my head shaking in disbleief. No one likes the tax system we have now. Everybody should pony up imho. A national sales tax along with the VAT.


BTW I'd let Torch pick the phone numbers. I want to see his face when the guy or gal on the other end raves about their care. I have. At the Greg Ferwin magic show at intermission at the pisser. I asked. Guy loved it. Had a by pass surgery the year prior. At the Windsor casino. Asked a waitress delivering me a black coffee. LOVED IT. At the breakfast buffet in line asked the guy making my omelette. You know the answer. I didn't find one person who talked bad about universal health care and that's the reason the right is so terrified. Fck whether it's better for the country. You guys are putting party before country imho.

If you are young...I'm sure the answer would be positive. If you are old I have a feeling that you would have a hard time finding someone that would give you a positive response..that is....If you can find one in good health enough to get to the phone. It must be wonderful to live in a country that cares so much for it's senior citizens.

The fact of the matter is that young people are subsiding lousy heath care for seniors in Canada. Since youths do not NEED healthcare...they think that the few times they use the system and it seems FREE...that everything is just WONDERFUL!!!!

As PT Barnum said...."There is a sucker born every minute"

(08-05-2009 06:16 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-05-2009 11:37 AM)Machiavelli Wrote: [ -> ]I live next to Canada. Can see Canada from my house. (Pelee Island) I've visited Canada on numerous occasions. I've asked about their health care. They love it. Not like it. LOVE IT!!! There's so much disinformation out there. Put a national sales tax on and be done with it. Get rid of the income tax or modify it. Go with the VAT to make imports more expensive and exports cheaper and balance the damn budget. Literally hands in my head shaking in disbleief. No one likes the tax system we have now. Everybody should pony up imho. A national sales tax along with the VAT.


BTW I'd let Torch pick the phone numbers. I want to see his face when the guy or gal on the other end raves about their care. I have. At the Greg Ferwin magic show at intermission at the pisser. I asked. Guy loved it. Had a by pass surgery the year prior. At the Windsor casino. Asked a waitress delivering me a black coffee. LOVED IT. At the breakfast buffet in line asked the guy making my omelette. You know the answer. I didn't find one person who talked bad about universal health care and that's the reason the right is so terrified. Fck whether it's better for the country. You guys are putting party before country imho.

If you are young...I'm sure the answer would be positive. If you are old I have a feeling that you would have a hard time finding someone that would give you a positive response..that is....If you can find one in good health enough to get to the phone. It must be wonderful to live in a country that cares so much for it's senior citizens.

The fact of the matter is that young people are subsiding lousy heath care for seniors in Canada. Since youths do not NEED healthcare...they think that the few times they use the system and it seems FREE...that everything is just WONDERFUL!!!!

As PT Barnum said...."There is a sucker born every minute"

Yet the U.S. spends more on healthcare than other industrialized countries and is outperformed on both ends of the spectrum. Both infant mortality and life expectancy in the U.S. are awful when we obviously have the means to be doing much better.

(08-05-2009 08:05 PM)GRPunk Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-05-2009 06:16 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-05-2009 11:37 AM)Machiavelli Wrote: [ -> ]I live next to Canada. Can see Canada from my house. (Pelee Island) I've visited Canada on numerous occasions. I've asked about their health care. They love it. Not like it. LOVE IT!!! There's so much disinformation out there. Put a national sales tax on and be done with it. Get rid of the income tax or modify it. Go with the VAT to make imports more expensive and exports cheaper and balance the damn budget. Literally hands in my head shaking in disbleief. No one likes the tax system we have now. Everybody should pony up imho. A national sales tax along with the VAT.


BTW I'd let Torch pick the phone numbers. I want to see his face when the guy or gal on the other end raves about their care. I have. At the Greg Ferwin magic show at intermission at the pisser. I asked. Guy loved it. Had a by pass surgery the year prior. At the Windsor casino. Asked a waitress delivering me a black coffee. LOVED IT. At the breakfast buffet in line asked the guy making my omelette. You know the answer. I didn't find one person who talked bad about universal health care and that's the reason the right is so terrified. Fck whether it's better for the country. You guys are putting party before country imho.

If you are young...I'm sure the answer would be positive. If you are old I have a feeling that you would have a hard time finding someone that would give you a positive response..that is....If you can find one in good health enough to get to the phone. It must be wonderful to live in a country that cares so much for it's senior citizens.

The fact of the matter is that young people are subsiding lousy heath care for seniors in Canada. Since youths do not NEED healthcare...they think that the few times they use the system and it seems FREE...that everything is just WONDERFUL!!!!

As PT Barnum said...."There is a sucker born every minute"

Yet the U.S. spends more on healthcare than other industrialized countries and is outperformed on both ends of the spectrum. Both infant mortality and life expectancy in the U.S. are awful when we obviously have the means to be doing much better.

Owl or torch debunked the infant mortality argument in another healthcare thread. The numbers are not apples to apples with other countries.

(08-05-2009 08:05 PM)GRPunk Wrote: [ -> ]Yet the U.S. spends more on healthcare than other industrialized countries and is outperformed on both ends of the spectrum. Both infant mortality and life expectancy in the U.S. are awful when we obviously have the means to be doing much better.

Doesn't matter how many times you repete a fallacy, it remains a fallacy. This B. S. always stinks.

(08-05-2009 05:58 PM)Machiavelli Wrote: [ -> ]SOAF ,

I've thought about it many times. I love the cold. Keeps out the rif raf. You have to be hearty and tough to stand an extreme winter. I could live in the Upper Penninsula or Wisconsin any day. I can always get warmer but when I'm hot I can't get colder. Canada would suit me just fine. Too many family in Ohio though. Maybe when I retire. Boyne Michigan would be nice.

Are you sure? You want all of your cares and needs to be handled for you here.

(08-05-2009 08:05 PM)GRPunk Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-05-2009 06:16 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-05-2009 11:37 AM)Machiavelli Wrote: [ -> ]I live next to Canada. Can see Canada from my house. (Pelee Island) I've visited Canada on numerous occasions. I've asked about their health care. They love it. Not like it. LOVE IT!!! There's so much disinformation out there. Put a national sales tax on and be done with it. Get rid of the income tax or modify it. Go with the VAT to make imports more expensive and exports cheaper and balance the damn budget. Literally hands in my head shaking in disbleief. No one likes the tax system we have now. Everybody should pony up imho. A national sales tax along with the VAT.


BTW I'd let Torch pick the phone numbers. I want to see his face when the guy or gal on the other end raves about their care. I have. At the Greg Ferwin magic show at intermission at the pisser. I asked. Guy loved it. Had a by pass surgery the year prior. At the Windsor casino. Asked a waitress delivering me a black coffee. LOVED IT. At the breakfast buffet in line asked the guy making my omelette. You know the answer. I didn't find one person who talked bad about universal health care and that's the reason the right is so terrified. Fck whether it's better for the country. You guys are putting party before country imho.

If you are young...I'm sure the answer would be positive. If you are old I have a feeling that you would have a hard time finding someone that would give you a positive response..that is....If you can find one in good health enough to get to the phone. It must be wonderful to live in a country that cares so much for it's senior citizens.

The fact of the matter is that young people are subsiding lousy heath care for seniors in Canada. Since youths do not NEED healthcare...they think that the few times they use the system and it seems FREE...that everything is just WONDERFUL!!!!

As PT Barnum said...."There is a sucker born every minute"

Yet the U.S. spends more on healthcare than other industrialized countries and is outperformed on both ends of the spectrum. Both infant mortality and life expectancy in the U.S. are awful when we obviously have the means to be doing much better.

....and of course instead of allowing the marketplace to innovate and reduce costs through competition and response to market signals..The government does as it ALWAYS does...MEDDLES!!!! It responds in the ONLY way it knows...Theft and dilution of wealth
...It is understandable.
Governments do NOT produce,innovate or create ANYTHING...instead...They destroy,stagnate and steal the fruits of labor of those that are productive.

It is always the unintended consequences of governmental intervention that cause the problems...Every time it sets out to solve a problem...IT MAKES IT WORSE!!! War on poverty...Fail....War on drugs...Fail....Education...Fail...Environmental issues...Fail...ect..ect..ect

OK..My soapbox just collasped!!!

The guy in the middle, and his entire family from Ontario, hate it:

BTW, they "claim" about 45 million are uninsured or "underinsured". Out of those, millions are on medicare, medicaid, young people who think they're invincible, or millionaires who don't need insurance. Who in their right f'n mind would completely scrap a system where 1/6th of the people are in that category, while it works for the other 5/6ths? You libs would have sold off or scuttled the Gdam USS Cole because it had a hole blown in it. Also, why is it these people that aren't insured have money to buy every f'n thing else like Plasma's, IPods, etc.? Better question, what part of your, or your family's, health is my responsibility?

Fix the hole. Don't scuttle the ship.

I only use the corrected number of 10 million myself. This old crazy right wing mobster doesn't fall for the big lies.

(08-05-2009 05:58 PM)Machiavelli Wrote: [ -> ]I love the cold. Keeps out the rif raf.

Mach, I don't think you're a racist but your statement could be interpreted as such is a conservative person said it. Lemme 'splain.

For reason's I don't know, just about every black guy I've known throughout my life did not like cold weather. They absolutely hate it. The ones I knew in New Jersey tolerated it but they still hated it. So you mention that the cold keeps out the rif raf.......see the connection?

Go ahead guys, hammer me for being a racist.

BTW, I prefer the colder climates.

Africa? Slaves were brought mainly to the southern states? The largest concentration of blacks being in the south? I don't blame'em. As someone who was born and raised in the south I absolutely detest the cold. I don't view it as a black or white thing, just a "where you're generally from" thing. There are black people I've talked to in Fairbanks, Alaska that absolutely love it.

...but I would like to know this "riff raff" Mach is talking about.