From the KSU beat writer David Carducci in the
Kent Record-Courier.
Quote:Something to watch for in the next month or so … There is some rumbling that the presidents of MAC schools would like to have the men’s MAC basketball tournament go back to campus sites in the first round and then have only the final eight teams advance to Quicken Loans Arena in Cleveland.
For a while now I’ve also heard rumors that the presidents would like to move the women’s MAC basketball tournament out of Quicken Loans Arena in a money-saving move. That idea may be gaining some momentum this week at the MAC meetings in Chicago.
Please do not allow this league to go backwards.
Getting empty arena games out of the public spotlight is moving forward. The fans in this conference do not support the first round games in Cleveland or the women's tourney. It is a waste of limited resources to have 800 people in a 20,000 seat arena, even configured to 12k with the top bowl blocked off.
(05-21-2009 07:09 AM)axeme Wrote: [ -> ]Getting empty arena games out of the public spotlight is moving forward. The fans in this conference do not support the first round games in Cleveland or the women's tourney. It is a waste of limited resources to have 800 people in a 20,000 seat arena, even configured to 12k with the top bowl blocked off.
Have you actually attended these games? 800 people? The womens tourney, maybe. I've attended every single game since the tourney moved to Cleveland. Looked like more than 800 to me.
(05-21-2009 07:36 AM)hilltopper Wrote: [ -> ] (05-21-2009 07:09 AM)axeme Wrote: [ -> ]Getting empty arena games out of the public spotlight is moving forward. The fans in this conference do not support the first round games in Cleveland or the women's tourney. It is a waste of limited resources to have 800 people in a 20,000 seat arena, even configured to 12k with the top bowl blocked off.
Have you actually attended these games? 800 people? The womens tourney, maybe. I've attended every single game since the tourney moved to Cleveland. Looked like more than 800 to me.
You don't have to estimate what it looks like. The numbers are there.
The men have avg. 1360 per game over the 3 years the 1st round games were at the Q. The women have avg. 284 per game. The overall avg. for the first round games is 822. Anyway you cut it, neither tourney's attendance is sufficient to justify the expense of holding those 2 days of renting the Q.
By comparison, in the 3 years previous (04, 05, 06) when the games were held at campus sites where expenses are very minimal compared to playing at the Q, the average attendance for these games was 4017. (I won't even bother checking the women's game attendance.)
I prefer the first round campus games. It means almost everybody is jockeying for home court until the end of the season. Makes the regular season more important IMO. And its one more game I don't have to travel to. At least most years.
(05-21-2009 08:09 AM)axeme Wrote: [ -> ] (05-21-2009 07:36 AM)hilltopper Wrote: [ -> ] (05-21-2009 07:09 AM)axeme Wrote: [ -> ]Getting empty arena games out of the public spotlight is moving forward. The fans in this conference do not support the first round games in Cleveland or the women's tourney. It is a waste of limited resources to have 800 people in a 20,000 seat arena, even configured to 12k with the top bowl blocked off.
Have you actually attended these games? 800 people? The womens tourney, maybe. I've attended every single game since the tourney moved to Cleveland. Looked like more than 800 to me.
You don't have to estimate what it looks like. The numbers are there.
The men have avg. 1360 per game over the 3 years the 1st round games were at the Q. The women have avg. 284 per game. The overall avg. for the first round games is 822. Anyway you cut it, neither tourney's attendance is sufficient to justify the expense of holding those 2 days of renting the Q.
By comparison, in the 3 years previous (04, 05, 06) when the games were held at campus sites where expenses are very minimal compared to playing at the Q, the average attendance for these games was 4017. (I won't even bother checking the women's game attendance.)
4017 in actual attendance no way. I can remember going to a first round Ohio-Toledo game in the Convo with less than 1,000 there. Attendance was listed 5k.
(05-21-2009 07:09 AM)axeme Wrote: [ -> ]Getting empty arena games out of the public spotlight is moving forward. The fans in this conference do not support the first round games in Cleveland or the women's tourney. It is a waste of limited resources to have 800 people in a 20,000 seat arena, even configured to 12k with the top bowl blocked off.
Okay I agree with you on the women's tourney but it would be a serious step backwards for the men's
If the MAC wants to get the first round games on TV they are going to have to play in Cleveland.
The Big East doesn't have its first round games on TV. Don't you want to be like them?
I like the first round games at the higher seed's home court......we need to get our higher seeds more of an advantage to ward off 1st round upsets, which do nothing but hurt the conference in our hopes of getting two teams back to the dance. Plus, there are the obvious financial advantages (attendance, cost of renting the Q with a mostly empty arena, etc.)
Tourney data for Men's games 1980-2008. 2009 data is listed seperately at the MAC site.
LINK
I'm just going by listed attendance figures. You can bet these are the numbers that will be used in making any argument at the MAC meetings. I imagine somebody trying to argue, "Hey, I was at that game and I thought there were only X-number of people there" will be laughed out of the room.
i'm definitely in favor of moving the women's games out of Cleveland. they are a huge drain.
I'm split on the men's games, though. i can see both sides and would be happy with either way - keeping them all in Cleveland or having them on campus sites.
I liked having the games at the Seagate Center in Toledo because the atmosphere was awsome. Granted the gym was smaller, but you came out of there with your ears ringing b/c of all of the noise.
The downside to that was parking issues and the current mayor, who was mayor back then, Carty "Crock of Crap" Finkbiner running his mouth comparing the attendance of the MAC basketball tournament at Seagate to the attendance at a KKK convention.
I think the league is VERY happy with the quarters, semis, and finals at the Q. That has worked out very well. I don't think there is any impetus at all to move the final eight teams away from Cleveland.
Is there any reason for all 12 teams participating in the tourney? Why not just have the top 8 teams go straight to Cleveland?
The Women's tournament would be much better off at Toledo's nice arena. Then you don't have games going on until past midnight trying to fit in both tournaments.
(05-21-2009 08:30 PM)uakronkid Wrote: [ -> ]The Women's tournament would be much better off at Toledo's nice arena. Then you don't have games going on until past midnight trying to fit in both tournaments.
Is that then really a cost savings for the women's tourney again? They'll charge a fee in Toledo too.
(05-21-2009 05:53 PM)RocketJeff Wrote: [ -> ]Is there any reason for all 12 teams participating in the tourney? Why not just have the top 8 teams go straight to Cleveland?
I like having all 12 in Cleveland because its a nice recruiting bone to the weaker MAC basketball schools....one thing they have that other mid majors don't is a shot in the house of LeBron James every year.
(05-22-2009 05:38 AM)Airport KC Wrote: [ -> ] (05-21-2009 05:53 PM)RocketJeff Wrote: [ -> ]Is there any reason for all 12 teams participating in the tourney? Why not just have the top 8 teams go straight to Cleveland?
I like having all 12 in Cleveland because its a nice recruiting bone to the weaker MAC basketball schools....one thing they have that other mid majors don't is a shot in the house of LeBron James every year.
You mean the house of Dwight Howard?