Recent story from the Pittsburg Tibune-Review:
"I probably remember that game as much or more as any I've ever coached," said Alan LeForce, 74, of Conway, S.C.
East Tennessee State, the Southern Conference champion, had beaten Shawn Bradley-led BYU in the preseason NIT and was ranked in the AP Top 25 during the season.
But the Bucs were prohibitive underdogs against coach Lute Olson's Pac-10 power, which included future All-American guard Damon Stoudamire.
East Tennessee State, powered by its perimeter game, led virtually the entire game, making LeForce a legend of sorts in northeast Tennessee.
"We were out of sight," said LeForce, in his 51st season as a coach and currently the women's basketball coach at Coastal Carolina.
ETSU had lost in the first round each of the previous three years � including a one-point loss to Oklahoma in 1989 and a three-point loss to Iowa in 1991 � before recording its first NCAA Tournament victory since 1968.
"They mention it all the time," LeForce said. "When I go back to Johnson City, that's the first thing they say. 'Oh boy. I remember that game. What a great game.' No question, that Arizona game has been in people's minds ever since."
The Bucs lost to Michigan's Fab Five, 102-90, in the second round. They haven't won an NCAA Tournament game since, losing in 2003 under former coach Ed DeChellis and in 2004 under current coach Murry Bartow.
No. 1 seeds are 96-0 in the first round since the tournament expanded in 1985, but the Panthers aren't taking anyone lightly.
"There are no easy wins," Pitt guard Brad Wanamaker said. "It's one and done."
LeForce, a second-year coach at the time, said the biggest danger for a top seed is convincing the players that the smaller, mid-major school is talented.
"We were a very good basketball team," he said. "In my (first two years), we beat Cincinnati, Xavier, Tennessee, Memphis. We were good. We had great shooters.
"But when a good basketball team at our level plays one of the highest seeds, it's hard for their coach to convince them. Lute (Olson) said, 'I tried to tell our kids.'
Stop posting this stuff kevster , it's making me depressed
Quote:Five-foot seven-inch Mister Jennings—his given name is Keith, but hardly anyone calls him that anymore—is but one reason why the East Tennessee State Buccaneers are 14-1, ranked a lofty 12th in this week's Associated Press poll and are quietly building a certified basketball power in a sleepy place called Johnson City.
Quote:"We can play with anybody in the country," replied Jennings, as if a light bulb had just snapped on above his head.
That fact has been made abundantly clear to Wake Forest and Virginia Tech, both of whom have dropped the Bucs from their schedules. Last season Tennessee played the Bucs, in Knoxville, for the first time in 26 years. The Vols were voluntarily manslaughtered 83-70. Among in-state foes, Memphis State is next, on Jan. 30 at the Tigers' place. "People now say we"re the best team in the state," says Jennings, "and I don't think Memphis State will take that well."
WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED???????????????????????
Why did we not build on this? Who fell asleep at the wheel? How the hell did we go from "building a certified basketball power" to hoping we win the A-Sun???????
Thanks Kev, you just ruined my day
I really do not know what happened either other than that Coach LeForce just let matters get out of hand. It could have been bad assistant coaches but the University just kept bringing him back after the team and program had fallen apart. I think it was seven years before DeChellis was brought in and by that time the basketball program was pancaked. About as bad as a divsion I program could have been. I have been following Buc basketball for years and it seems the school just cannot hire two successful coaches in a row and it has hurt the program deeply.
Would you not consider DeChellis and Bartow back-to-back successful coaches? I think the argument could be made. Again, the last seven years are as succesful as any time in the program's history with the exception of 1989 to 1992 seasons.
(04-05-2009 02:07 PM)BucNut22 Wrote: [ -> ]WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED???????????????????????
Why did we not build on this? Who fell asleep at the wheel? How the hell did we go from "building a certified basketball power" to hoping we win the A-Sun???????
Thanks Kev, you just ruined my day
We returned the NCAA's and took Pitt to the wire, despite woeful shooting on our part. That tells me this program is a returning as a perennial NCAA contender. I'm extremely excited where this program is right now. To be clear, I want more too: I want to be in a new conference; I want a new basketball arena; I want an RPI < 100 year in and year out; but...the glory days were an aberration in this program's storied history. It's something we can all be proud of, and talk about nostalgically (I wasn't here then, but I love hearing the stories from yesteryear), but I think it's an unfair comparison and standard. I'm not sure we'll ever return to being 10th in the nation; nor will 97% of the teams in the country.
Just my humble opinion...
2002, I was speaking about what happened immediately after the Mister years. It seems throughout our history that ETSU has hired bad coaches after good. I was extremely excited about this past year but overall Bartow's performance has been spotty as has been said on this forum ad infinitum now. He has been in a weak conference and this is his first time to win it. I give credit and support the team always but we cannot ignore all of the last second losses over the last five years. If Bartow is over that then wonderful.
(04-05-2009 07:15 PM)Bucfaithful Wrote: [ -> ] (04-05-2009 02:07 PM)BucNut22 Wrote: [ -> ]WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED???????????????????????
Why did we not build on this? Who fell asleep at the wheel? How the hell did we go from "building a certified basketball power" to hoping we win the A-Sun???????
Thanks Kev, you just ruined my day
We returned the NCAA's and took Pitt to the wire, despite woeful shooting on our part. That tells me this program is a returning as a perennial NCAA contender. I'm extremely excited where this program is right now. To be clear, I want more too: I want to be in a new conference; I want a new basketball arena; I want an RPI < 100 year in and year out; but...the glory days were an aberration in this program's storied history. It's something we can all be proud of, and talk about nostalgically (I wasn't here then, but I love hearing the stories from yesteryear), but I think it's an unfair comparison and standard. I'm not sure we'll ever return to being 10th in the nation; nor will 97% of the teams in the country.
Just my humble opinion...
This is not a comparison, I`m wondering why/how the program deteriorated from the level it was at? Why didn't the success of those 4 years get turned into something more? Common sense says that 4 straight trips to the NCAA and being ranked in the top 10 should lead to a major boost in recruiting, facilities upgrade, etc and more success down the road. We all talk about a new arena, why the hell wasn't one built when the program was at its prime? Why weren't we trying to move into a better conference? Who lacked the vision to move ETSU forward? Somehow the ball was dropped, there was an opportunity to do something truly great and it was missed.
I`m just wanting to know why/how it happened
(04-05-2009 08:51 PM)BucNut22 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-05-2009 07:15 PM)Bucfaithful Wrote: [ -> ] (04-05-2009 02:07 PM)BucNut22 Wrote: [ -> ]WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED???????????????????????
Why did we not build on this? Who fell asleep at the wheel? How the hell did we go from "building a certified basketball power" to hoping we win the A-Sun???????
Thanks Kev, you just ruined my day
We returned the NCAA's and took Pitt to the wire, despite woeful shooting on our part. That tells me this program is a returning as a perennial NCAA contender. I'm extremely excited where this program is right now. To be clear, I want more too: I want to be in a new conference; I want a new basketball arena; I want an RPI < 100 year in and year out; but...the glory days were an aberration in this program's storied history. It's something we can all be proud of, and talk about nostalgically (I wasn't here then, but I love hearing the stories from yesteryear), but I think it's an unfair comparison and standard. I'm not sure we'll ever return to being 10th in the nation; nor will 97% of the teams in the country.
Just my humble opinion...
This is not a comparison, I`m wondering why/how the program deteriorated from the level it was at? Why didn't the success of those 4 years get turned into something more? Common sense says that 4 straight trips to the NCAA and being ranked in the top 10 should lead to a major boost in recruiting, facilities upgrade, etc and more success down the road. We all talk about a new arena, why the hell wasn't one built when the program was at its prime? Why weren't we trying to move into a better conference? Who lacked the vision to move ETSU forward? Somehow the ball was dropped, there was an opportunity to do something truly great and it was missed.
I`m just wanting to know why/how it happened
Don't know the answer either. But that would be a question for the administration at THAT time. At least that's something people can't blame on Mullins or Stanton.
But this does prove a point. We hear a lot on here about how great things "used" to be. The reality was a lot of the issues today and problems that the program face in 2009 are simply the fruition of missed opportunities and a lack of athletic vision for the last six decades. People want to look at Appalachian State as an example of what ETSU could have been with football, well, go ask all those past presidents and ADs why a student fee 30 years ago was not a good idea, why the Dome was the best option for the school, and why the Glory Years came and went without capitalizing on that lightning in a bottle. ASU made the right decisions back in the 1980s to build what they enjoy today. That's a truth no one can deny.
Now, that would make a good conversation.
(04-05-2009 06:26 PM)Buc2002 Wrote: [ -> ]Would you not consider DeChellis and Bartow back-to-back successful coaches? I think the argument could be made. Again, the last seven years are as succesful as any time in the program's history with the exception of 1989 to 1992 seasons.
No, not at all. What Bartow has done simply isnt good enough.
Getting back to the question at hand: What happened around 1994. I, as well as other, I'm sure, saw it happening.
We were a great team due to a combination of factors. Not only did we have very solid players for about 6 years, but we had great coaching as well. When the coach went to NC State and LeForce took the head position, the assistants quickly went on to other jobs. LeForce was a great assistant. So were the others.
But when all those assistants moved on to head coaching and other positions (I can't remember all their names - seems like LeForce's top assistant went on to a head coaching position at a smaller school - Lebo went to Tenn Tech or someplace - and Shulman headed to assistant at Chatt, I think) the program went with them.
One note: The dome wasn't considered a problem back then, so there wasn't thought of building another facility. You have to remember that ETSU had the second longest home win streak in the country for a few years. It was quite a source of pride.
Also, the dome conversation reminds me of the conversation surrounding Thompson-Boling arena in Knoxville. Everyone blamed it for UT's problems just 4 years ago. Pearl came in, declared Thompson-Boling a great place to play basketball and filled it up. It's now considered one of the best places to play in the country.
Don't get me wrong, the bucs could use a new facility. However, it's all in the crowd, not the facility. When the dome was filled, there was no better place to watch a game. Friends in Knoxville were always asking if they could come with me to watch the bucs play - and wondering why the Vols couldn't have the same atmosphere.
The early 90s weren't an aberration, as so many who weren't in ET keep saying. The bucs have had great teams on and off for the past 50 years.
Until we start playing some real teams, the current bucs will not be remembered as a great team. And don't start on the "We only lost by 10 to....." excuse. During the season, the bucs play no one. At least LeForce was up against real competition when he was coaching.
Anyway, that's where I think the dropoff happened in the mid 90s.
Shulman was Leforce's assistant until he was fired. Then I think Shulman went with Lebo to Tech. I "think" Leforce let the program get out of hand. He was a great assistant and an x and o guy but did not have much control over the players. He brought in some big time players, but they had no discipline on the court and very bad academic issues.
(04-06-2009 08:17 AM)kevster Wrote: [ -> ]One note: The dome wasn't considered a problem back then, so there wasn't thought of building another facility. You have to remember that ETSU had the second longest home win streak in the country for a few years. It was quite a source of pride.
Also, the dome conversation reminds me of the conversation surrounding Thompson-Boling arena in Knoxville. Everyone blamed it for UT's problems just 4 years ago. Pearl came in, declared Thompson-Boling a great place to play basketball and filled it up. It's now considered one of the best places to play in the country.
Don't get me wrong, the bucs could use a new facility. However, it's all in the crowd, not the facility. When the dome was filled, there was no better place to watch a game. Friends in Knoxville were always asking if they could come with me to watch the bucs play - and wondering why the Vols couldn't have the same atmosphere.
The early 90s weren't an aberration, as so many who weren't in ET keep saying. The bucs have had great teams on and off for the past 50 years.
Until we start playing some real teams, the current bucs will not be remembered as a great team. And don't start on the "We only lost by 10 to....." excuse. During the season, the bucs play no one. At least LeForce was up against real competition when he was coaching.
Anyway, that's where I think the dropoff happened in the mid 90s.
So there was zero talk of getting the basketball their own place, even a separate practice facility? To me that shows a lack of vision by that administration, sure you may be happy with games being in the dome, that doesn't mean you shouldn't improve things and build up the program. Can you imagine the recruiting power a nice arena and/or practice facility would have, instead of showing a football stadium which may or may not have the basketball section out the day of a visit. The bottom line is that the dome is not a basketball arena, yes it can serve that purpose but a separate basketball arena shows a level of commitment and vision going forward. My guess is at the time there was a lot of capital(not to mention political will) that could have be used in order to make improvements to the program and the campus as a whole.
I wonder if it would have been harder for Les Robinson to leave if ETSU had been taking steps to improve the program. I wonder if a new arena or practice facility(or both) were under construction, or if ETSU was actively trying to get to a better conference if Robinson would have stuck around, preventing our fall from grace in the years after 92. I realize that NC State was his alma mater, but guys have turned those kinds of job down before because they liked the school there were at.
Alumni is right about a lack of discipline on the later LeForce teams. He brought in what seemed to be good recruits in 1992 including highly touted Andy Pennington (who later transferred to CN), 6'9" Tony Patterson, a transfer from Wake Forest and another record-setting 3 point specialist from Austin Peay. But they could never play together and it was the end of an era. Actually in '92 the team was 19-10 and the bottom fell out the next year.
1992 was also the first year without Coach Lebo and it was John Shulman's first year as a full time assistant. The lose of Lebo could have contributed to the downfall. The next year Grafton Young the other Robinson era assistant left and went to Presbyterian (I believe) as a head coach.
Up until that time ETSU often would host an ACC team--Wake Forest, NC State, Georgia Tech, etc. That all seemed to stop about 1992 and it became very difficult to schedule quality opponents. As it is today.
I think kevster has a point. If we are winning, we will draw crowds, and as we develop a winning tradition the crowds will get bigger. I think with the firecode issues and the present layout of the dome we don't have a first class facility (maybe it was better in the past...I can only go by what I've seen). I think either building a new arena for basketball (unlikely given the present budget) or a complete rehab of the dome with basketball as a priority (but including a first rate track facility...hell..Madison Square Garden did it.) is the way to go. Assuming the (bogus) fire claims to be valid we would have a case to make for a rehab. Upgrading the regular season schedule to put in tougher teams is very important as well. I have to think our regular season schedule is more what earned us a 16 seed than anything else.