Did not want anyone to miss this article...
http://www.dailymail.com/Sports/MUSports/200902030506
"Last week, when the news arrived that the Mid-American Conference had landed an eight-year telecast contract extension with the ESPNs, I thought about where Marshall's program has gone since it left the Cleveland-based league."
My thoughts echo this author completely:
I was disappointed that Marshall left for such a watered down, broad-range version of CUSA. I thought it foolish.
However, w/ the NCAA money from Memphis' run, and US demographics heading south, it's too early to determine if the move was good or not.
The one factor that he doesn't mention is the rise of the SBC. Clearly its choice to consolidate geographically proves the case that proximity matters, and regional conferences make more sense. Furthermore, their presence in the southeast is a thorn in the side of CUSA; while demographics are moving south, the competition has picked up too.
Having CUSA and the WAC trade La Tech for UTEP might help both conferences.
Speaking of mistakes, Marshall has finally settled David Ridpath's 5.5 year old lawsuit against the university. Under the terms of the settlement, Marshall will pay him an undisclosed sum and send a letter to the NCAA "explaining" that his removal as compliance director had nothing to do with his performance leading up to Marshall's NCAA investigation.
Unlike many such settlements, there does not appear to be a provision against further discussion/disparagement, and Ridpath still plans to publish a tell-all book about his experiences in Huntington.
It seems abundantly clear that Marshall essentially capitulated to avoid the further embarrassment of a trial and the strong possibility that Ridpath would recover his full claim. Dennis Dodd's article (linked below) even suggests that the NCAA may reopen its investigation and go after Pruett.
http://www.wvpubcast.org/newsarticle.aspx?id=7952
http://www.herald-dispatch.com/news/x376...in-lawsuit
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/11330273
(02-04-2009 10:32 AM)DrTorch Wrote: [ -> ]The one factor that he doesn't mention is the rise of the SBC. Clearly its choice to consolidate geographically proves the case that proximity matters, and regional conferences make more sense. Furthermore, their presence in the southeast is a thorn in the side of CUSA; while demographics are moving south, the competition has picked up too.
I also think regional conferences make the most sense. The MAC is very regionalized and that is a good thing. Travel expenses plus decimated state budgets are taking its toll on schools across the U.S. The economy is bad and will be bad for quite a few years; significantly decreased revenue collections at city, county, and state levels will most likely force some athletic budget reductions and, therefore, conference affiliation changes.
The SBC gave Idaho, NMSU, and Utah State a home until they could get into a western conference; NMSU and Idaho were good conference mates and I wish them well in the WAC.
Three SBC schools rejected WAC inquiries to join as a travel partner for La Tech. All three of us did the Big West thing along with NIU; it did not work for our fans and we now are in a regional conference where our fans can travel to away games.
Denver is leaving the SBC and that will further regionalize the conference.
Marshall leaving the MAC was about money. Marshall may be racking in the money, but they are going nowhere in football and basketball in CUSA. Marshall hasn't sniffed a bowl or NCAA tournament since leaving the MAC. Only EMU hasn't reached the postseason in Mens basketball or Football among MAC schools in the time Marshall left.
(02-05-2009 12:51 AM)OZoner Wrote: [ -> ]Marshall IS a mistake.
(02-04-2009 03:02 PM)ManzanoWolf Wrote: [ -> ] (02-04-2009 10:32 AM)DrTorch Wrote: [ -> ]The one factor that he doesn't mention is the rise of the SBC. Clearly its choice to consolidate geographically proves the case that proximity matters, and regional conferences make more sense. Furthermore, their presence in the southeast is a thorn in the side of CUSA; while demographics are moving south, the competition has picked up too.
I also think regional conferences make the most sense. The MAC is very regionalized and that is a good thing. Travel expenses plus decimated state budgets are taking its toll on schools across the U.S. The economy is bad and will be bad for quite a few years; significantly decreased revenue collections at city, county, and state levels will most likely force some athletic budget reductions and, therefore, conference affiliation changes.
The SBC gave Idaho, NMSU, and Utah State a home until they could get into a western conference; NMSU and Idaho were good conference mates and I wish them well in the WAC.
Three SBC schools rejected WAC inquiries to join as a travel partner for La Tech. All three of us did the Big West thing along with NIU; it did not work for our fans and we now are in a regional conference where our fans can travel to away games.
Denver is leaving the SBC and that will further regionalize the conference.
The SBC is moving in the direction of an all-sport conference. This year 8 out of 13 members play in FBS. By 2015 its going to be 10 out of 12 members and that is if UNO and UALR stay in the conference.
Schools that are exploring a move to FBS include Texas State, Charlotte, Georgia Southern..all schools in the south. What this means for the SBC is they'll have no shortage in potential schools to backfill in case of a raid.
CUSA does have a wide recruiting base to pull from but they have issues.
1. Ten years ago, CUSA had a winning record against the SEC and was picked as an equity conference by the NCAA. The gap between the SEC and the southern independents left behind (CUSA) has grown exponentially since the BCS era.
2. CUSA has a 3.3 million dollar a year deal with ESPN. The SEC has a new 2.25 billion dollar deal in place with ESPN. The SEC's deal is worth 4 times what it was 5 years ago while CUSA is worth 1/4 of what it was to ESPN. CUSA may be pushed off ESPN entirely in another year or 2.
3. CUSA is facing a challenge from a rival conference in its own backyard, the Sun Belt. Its becoming like the MWC-WAC situation. The MWC thought it could do better than ESPN and the WAC filled the programming void and now has a deal similar in value and exposure as the original MWC-ESPN contract. ESPN realizes they can get the SBC dirt cheap and do away with CUSA.
4. CUSA is slipping in bowls. CUSA once boasted of having 4 bowls for 10 teams at a time the MAC only had 1 and no chance of an at-large. One of those games was the Liberty which was CUSA #1/MWC #1. The Liberty is still solid having added the SEC to the lineup and a Jan 2nd date, but if Memphis ever left CUSA that bowl is gone forever.
Then digging deeper into the lineup CUSA's #2 bowl the GMAC has left them already to be possibly replaced by a 3rd bowl game in UCF's home stadium. The GMAC is one of the very best bowls played in by non-BCS programs. It has a parade, tradition and played off campus. Other CUSA bowls are cheaply done in contrast; Armed Forces is played at TCU's dumpy stadium. N.O bowl is at Tulane's home pad. Some low quality games.
The MAC played 5 bowl games this year and none of the 5 were played at another program's home stadium. The Mountain West played bowls at the home stadiums of Tulane, New Mexico, TCU, San Diego St, and UNLV. All 5 games at a program's home stadium. CUSA next year will be looking at playing 4 out of 6 in someone's home stadium.
Another nice aspect about the MAC over CUSA/WAC/MWC is that its playing in bowls (except for MCB, Toronto) outside of its home territory. The whole treat about a bowl game is that you would fly 1/2 across the country to go see it. Its nice to have some local mix like the MAC has with MCB/Toronto but its kind of lame to be playing a post season game at one of your conference mates home stadiums.
(02-04-2009 10:32 AM)DrTorch Wrote: [ -> ]My thoughts echo this author completely:
I was disappointed that Marshall left for such a watered down, broad-range version of CUSA. I thought it foolish.
However, w/ the NCAA money from Memphis' run, and US demographics heading south, it's too early to determine if the move was good or not.
BOWLS: Marshall predicted the MAC bowl opportunites would disappear, the MAC placed 5 in bowls last season. CUSA lost the GMAC and could lose Liberty quick if Memphis to Big East. Advantage MAC.
TV: Marshall predicted the MAC would lose its TV deal without them. The MAC doubled its next contract in money and appearances. CUSA may be cut loose from ESPN. Advantage MAC.
FANS: Marshall predicted a move to CUSA would greatly increase ticket sales. Fact, Marshall's attendance this year is lower than when they played in the MAC. Advantage MAC.
BASKETBALL: Marshall said its all about football. CUSA has placed a team in the final 4. The MAC has been 1 and done in the NCAAs. Advantage CUSA.
Except for in basketball (where CUSA makes all of its money), the MAC comes out ahead. Better football exposure in the MAC especially in the Midwest and much better all-sports and in travel time.
After travel costs are deducted, Marshall is probably a 500,000 dollars ahead in its athletic budget then it would be in the MAC, roughly 2.5% on a 20 million dollar budget.
If CUSA falls apart, Marshall could find itself back in the MAC again.
CUSA Went 4-2 in bowls and slaughtered our MAC opponent. As the NCAA allows more bowls, stands to reason non-bcs leagues will get more of the action. I agree wholeheartedly that the CUSA - cstv/cbs package sucks. CUSA took the 10mil. up front but its not worth it considering the piss poor exposure. Our incompetant AD could negotiate a local tv package like we had a few years ago, but he's too busy filling out retirement papers.
We do make more money in CUSA, about 1.2 mil more a year, as indicated by the Huntington Herald Dispatch. Football attendance was down this year because we had terrible weather for 3 home games, and of course the product on the field was bad. In 2007, we ave. 29K a game. Basketball attendance is up again, with an ave. over 5K per game.
We suck in football and b'ball right now, but I see that changing this coming year, Hopefully. I enjoyed the MAC, still watch a lot of games. Never could understand the hate some had for MU. Yes, we had idiot posters who liked to stir the pot, but everyone does, thats for sure. Looking forward to playing BG and OU in the next few years. This years b'ball win over OU was a good game. Its good for both schools.
You guys never stop do you.
I also enjoyed the MAC and as Ive said many a time and still do the "Big 10" area feel to the conference especially since I was born and raised in Illinois. I did understand the hate though. Its because we kicked your asses up and down the field for the majority of the time we spent in the MAC in our 2nd time around.
Some of these things I'm reading a hilarious, but not surprising on this board. Comparing a deal between the SEC and C-USA as some sort of proof to an argument. Way to go on that one! Actually thinking the Sun Belt is some sort of stiff competition that is going to bring down C-USA or even the MAC for that matter. Then the best of all actually thinking that us moving to C-USA was a mistake when it obviously has worked out for both sides.
1. Travel costs arguments are so weak and overrated. Especially when the actual travel numbers are rarely if ever posted in a story. The only thing you hear are the inflated opinions to help an argument.
2. C-USA is still looked at as a better over all league. Period. Spin it all you want, and say what you will it is. Football took a hit and after 4 years its been up and down, but more up in the future. Thats too easy to see. Do I need to talk about basketball??? Hoops blows the MAC and Sun Belt out of the water combined!
3. Sun Belt???? Really??? Is that your argument now???
4. Your continued obsession with trying to prove to yourselves about your own conference's worth. Constantly telling each other good things and bringing each others confidence up. Its kind of cute.
Last... and some things NEVER change...
MARSHALL!!! MARSHALL!!! MARSHALL!!!!!
![[Image: jan_20brady.jpg]](http://www.knittingliberally.com/files/images/jan_20brady.jpg)
Do you street urchins come here just waiting for us to breathe your name so that you can descend on us like a plague?
No, we didn't hate you because you "kicked our asses." Of course, we've said this 500 times before anyway, so why waste time on it?
You're 9-13. I can tell that's really working out for you. Take Memphis away from your league and you guys have nothing. And somebody WILL take the Tigers off your hands. It's only a matter of time.
Marshall had to go.... That is where they belong. If CUSA blows up they will be in the SunBelt. They are a Southern school.
Marshall folks... It was more of an FYI for our ongoing conference discussion. It does show that the grass is not always greener... If I was a Marshall fan I would more upset that our teams have gone from being ranked in the top 25 to the bottom 25, then a posting on your old conferences message board.
Sorry guys, I saw Marshall mentioned and chimed in, not to mention someone here took the time to post the article from the CUSA board. No big deal. I like to read the recruiting news for OU, just to see what the 'cats have going for the future. I still maintain its a good regional series for both schools. Later.
It's hard to conclude that Marshall completely made a mistake because by all accounts I've read their administration, coaches and alums/fans are happier playing in C-USA. Certainly the conference's guaranteed bowls are better, the revenues are better, and they play in mostly bigger stadiums with average crowds far above that of the MAC (in football). Plus, it's more of a "southern conference" which seems to suit the Marshall folks better.
At the same time, many of the boasts made about the move (in advance) have not been borne out. Greater access to bowls has been meaningless since their football teams since leaving the MAC have been poor, their football attendance has not improved, and their costs (and time) for travel must've gone up dramatically. C-USA is better in hoops due to Memphis, but they are looking to move up to a BCS conference (and probably will eventually), although C-USA does have very good baseball (but Marshall doesn't have much of a baseball program).
Marshall was pretty much dead last in the MAC most years in the all men's sports trophy race outside of football, and I think it's probably fair to say they were recruited by C-USA primarily for football, and thus have surely been a disappointment to the league. That could change now that their scholarships are not restricted.
I don't see Marshall ever coming back to the MAC, though, no matter what happens. I do think their series with OU is a good idea, though.
I think Marshall and others jumped at the money, but are playing far away from home for away conference games. LA Tech has the same problem in the WAC. UTEP belongs in WAC, La Tech in CUSA and Marshall in the MAC. Marshall would be competing for a bowl game every year in the MAC East. If Temple joins for all-sports, I think that might make both the MAC and Marshall have second thoughts and put the past behind bring back the Herd to the MAC.
(02-06-2009 12:54 PM)exCincy Kid Wrote: [ -> ]a whole bunch of great points deleted
I don't see Marshall ever coming back to the MAC, though, no matter what happens. I do think their series with OU is a good idea, though.
I don't see Marshall coming back either. Nor would I want them to. They are a regional campus that I'd never heard of until they played YSU in the IAA championship game. Whatever benefit they might have brought to the MAC was lost w/ their likely infractions.
Even playing them now offers nothing for the MAC, not even OIHO U. The Boobcats would be better off trying to establish long term series w/ Pitt, WVU, or Kentucky.
BG scheduling them is a mistake. The Falcons can do better, and should.
(02-04-2009 11:10 PM)OUBOBCATJOHN Wrote: [ -> ]Marshall leaving the MAC was about money. Marshall may be racking in the money, but they are going nowhere in football and basketball in CUSA. Marshall hasn't sniffed a bowl or NCAA tournament since leaving the MAC. Only EMU hasn't reached the postseason in Mens basketball or Football among MAC schools in the time Marshall left.
So I guess you are saying that Marshall FB and BB would be better today in the Mac.. Their recruiting has been pretty decent the last 2 years.. so exactly how weak is the MAC???