CSNbbs

Date: January 19th, 2009

Time: 7:00 PM

Opponent: Belmont (10-6, 6-1 ASun)

Place: Memorial Center

Television: None

Webcast: ASun TV (Subscription)

Radio online: ETSUBucs.com (Free)

Belmont 2008-2009 Schedule

Belmont 2008-2009 Roster

It is finally here. Let the discussion begin.

If anyone needs to be pumped up....

If I were Bartow I would make the players watch last years tournament game on tape.


That's still painful to watch

(01-18-2009 03:30 PM)Goldfinger Wrote: [ -> ]That's still painful to watch

I was thinking the same thing, Gold. I couldn't finish it.

Do you people realize that we have not beaten Belmont in the dome since joining the A-sun? This is unacceptable and must end tomorrow.

I finally get to make it to a game this year. I hope to be watching this streak end.

D-Day is finally here, time for my long awaited crackpot theory

If we use the same press we have been using this year and in years past we are setting ourselves up for failure and we will suffer another embarrassing loss at the hands of the Bruins. It isn't so much that we press, I`m not against putting pressure on Belmont including pressuring them up the floor, I am against the trapping that we employ in our press. Trapping is just another way of saying double teaming, by definition we will be putting two players on one and leaving one man open. In the case of Belmont that one man is almost always a good shooter, particularly an outside shooter. If we rely on trapping Belmont we will lose, I have no doubt about that.

For years we have done a lot of trapping and played a lot of zone defense against Belmont, something that has played right into the strength of their team and caused us to get murdered. Why? Because trapping and zone defenses deliberately leaves guys open and challenges the other team to find the open man and make shots. Rick Byrd's teams have proven time and time again that they can find the open man and make open shots. I am still not sure whether its arrogance or downright stupidity that has made Bartow and Co continue to challenge Belmont to find the open man and make shots. Our press has been most effective against undisciplined teams or teams without quick guards that are good ball handlers. Belmont is the exact opposite of that description, they are a very disciplined team and in Alex Renfro they have a very quick guard that is also a good ball handler. Belmont has never had trouble breaking our press, and even though our press is better this year the foundation of our press has not changed, we still leave guys open on purpose.

We run a VERY aggressive press, I would argue we run an overly aggressive press, we take a lot of chances going after passes, we cut guys off, we often put 3 guys in the front court which only leaves 2 guys back, and of course we trap A LOT. Belmont has fed off us being overly aggressive since we joined the A-Sun, their guys rarely get themselves trapped against the press because they attack the middle of the floor(usually the kryptonite of any press), and even when they do head toward a trap they usually know exactly where they're going with the ball next and they catch us with our pants down.

We don't need to give Belmont anything, especially open shots. We need to make Belmont earn open shots, that means very little trapping, that means no zone defense, that means not doubling down low or on pick and rolls, that means our perimeter guys should not leave their man to help when others get beat 1 on 1. If Belmont can win the game by beating us going to the basket 1 on 1 so be it, if they can beat us posting up down low so be it. I will gladly take Belmont trying to score 2pt shots than 3pt shots, they've proven they can hit them. I've never understood why Bartow and Co couldn't see that trading 2's for 3's is a recipe for disaster.

As for what we should do

I`m not against pressuring Belmont, just not the way we have been pressing teams. If we want to pressure Belmont all the way up the court I`m fine with that, but not if it includes trapping or putting more guys in the front court and leaving guys open. We need to play straight man to man defense FOR THE ENTIRE GAME Even though Bartow may think we aren't capable of 40mins of man to man last year's tourney game says different. We played straight man for the majority of the game last year, we closed out on 3pt shooters, we switched on pick and rolls, and we did very little trapping. Bartow loves to trap off on inbound plays around the basket, BAD IDEA vs Belmont. Trapping will just leave someone open to nail a 3. This is not about being afraid of Belmont, or being dictated to, this about not playing into another team's strength. This is about forcing Belmont to do something they aren't use to needing to do, getting open shots on their own.

For the last 3 years we have gave Belmont open shots then sat back shocked when Belmont hit them. If we want to trap or press occasionally fine, nothing wrong with doing the unexpected or keeping Belmont guessing. But we better not trap or press regularly and hope to win the game, it will not happen IMO. We better not play into Belmont's strength and that this time will be different while playing Belmont the same way we have since we joined the A-Sun. What Belmont likes to do hasn't changed, and what we like to do hasn't worked against them, we are the ones that need to adapt and change our approach.

BucNut22


I see where you are coming from but I think you are slanting a little to the extreme. First of all I've seen us press and trap belmont with great effeciency. Two years ago I was at the game in Nashville when we beat Belmont and our trapping and quick play had us up by over twenty at the half. The problem with Belmont is not the players on the court but instead it is that sweater vest sporting coach on the sideline. You can't keep throwing one thing on him all night because he will come up with a solution. I saw him call three time outs inside of twenty seconds down in Nashville in order to get his team to counteract what we were doing. It's maddening how much smarter he is than Bartow.

There are a few things I'd like to point out...

We tried to trap them in the full court press some last year in the dome and Justin Hare beat it. Justin Hare is gone. Also we were playing lazily in that game. God knows why? But we were.

As for our black defense or whatever its called....I believe we are running it better this year than we have in years past. A lot of this is due to the fact that you have both Kevin Tiggs and Courtney Pigram at the head of it with Mike Smith waiting to swarm whoever gets by. But I think the big advantage is that you have Isiah Brown and Greg Hamlin on the back end waiting to get steals and they are much more effective then our post players were last year. I think they we are much more athletic in the post then we were a year ago. Also sticking Salazo (sp) down there has been very helpful. I think we can pressure Belmont tomorrow night in the full court and half court game as long as we keep switching back and forth between the two. Last years tournament game proved than when you smother those little make-up wearing nancy's they can't shoot with the effeciency they enjoy while being left wide open from either zone defense or just pure laziness. If we go zone against Belmont....we're done. It's an old addage from Hoosiers but in this case its useful...our guys need to think of Belmont as chewing gum...by the end of the night I want to know just what fruity flavor those boys are.

If we are hustling and playing in high energy man to man defense whether it be full court or half court man to man....we have the ability to smother any team in this league into submission and that includes Belmont. Kevin Tiggs, Mike Smith, Courtney Pigram can absolutely provide players with zero room. Isiah Brown and Greg Hamlin are showing great defensive skills as well. Salazo is another guy who plays great defense and offers another rebounding option for us. Smother them!

Even if Belmont gets a few open shots from a press....if the press can become effective in getting Belmont off of their rythem....they will not shoot the lights out of it.


That is the one thing I've noticed with Belmont over the years. They are not like the twins from VMI. The twins could hit with five guys falling all over them from half court. Belmont needs to set and shoot to be effective. Our zone played right into that.

(01-18-2009 08:19 PM)Goldfinger Wrote: [ -> ]We tried to trap them in the full court press some last year in the dome and Justin Hare beat it. Justin Hare is gone. Also we were playing lazily in that game. God knows why? But we were.

Is there evidence to suggest that Alex Renfro who is a quicker guard than Justin Hare is not capable of beating the press?

Renfro went through Bruce Pearl's press like a hot knife through butter..

I don't remember putting Tiggs at the head last year....I remember putting Strong up there. Tiggs is tough to get around. If Renfro beats it then lets go back to half-court man to man. But I think Tiggs and Pigram can slow him down and with the athletes we have behind them we can pick off some passes. This type defense will get beat from time to time...but it does more good than harm. I think we agree that whether it be a full court trap or a half court man to man the task at hand is going to be to smother these kids. Don't let them see the light of day. I really believe that if we play to our ability we have the athletes to do it.

I think our full court press is better than UT's.

(01-18-2009 08:47 PM)Goldfinger Wrote: [ -> ]I think our full court press is better than UT's.

UT is ridiculously overrated.

Another thing that really bothers me in this series is...We have had belmont beat several times and just blown it for one reason or another.

Hey -- UT's defense is absolutely awful. Good grief, they gave up 54 to Jodie Meeks from UK on their home court, and they barely got a hand in his face all night. I have said that to UT fans around here, but they think Jodie was just hot that night. That's bogus - that is some of the worst defense I've seen since ETSU played Memphis a few years ago. Plus, UT let him get hot. UT's defense is lazy, much like ours used to be.

I agree - press & one on one pressure. The trapping thing can be dangerous, but we typically trap in the front half of the court; once they break the press, we typically go straight up man-to-man, or sometimes zone, that's what we've done this year anyway. We are a much better defensive team than a year ago, primarily because: 1) CP has bought into it - he's always been a good defender, but this year, he's a great defender; I expect he'll get Renfroe; 2) Putting Tiggs at the top of the press is also an excellent move, because he's quick & athletic, and quite honestly, he's intimidating and can make plays; 3) Smith is excellent at intercepting passes and hustling to errant passes coming over the top; 4) Brown & Hamlin are quicker than anyone we've had in the post since probably Jerald Fields, but remember, that group had cement shoes Brad Nuckles who had to be reminded to jump for rebounds. Also Hamlin is a hatchet man of sorts, and can block shots.

The key to the game is the first half - if we come out flat we're in big trouble. If we come out tight we're in big trouble. For those reasons, start them out in the press to 'break the ice' and get 'em warmed up. It's an absolute that we have to make them miss 3s early and don't let them get in a rhythm. But they don't have Hare, and he was tough on a number of levels. His heir apparent is Andy Wicke, and Wicke is more of a set shooter only and is not as versatile, but Renfroe may be the bigger worry. Renfroe can drive, and I agree w/ the earlier sentiment - I would rather give up a 2 with him driving the lane than drilling 3s all night.

We can do it, just make them do what they don't want to do, which means guard them tight on the perimeter, don't over help or trap to much, be patient on defense and on offense, and focus on not making unforced errors. Also, HUSTLE! At the beginning of the Lipscomb game we looked like we didn't want to play. Last year vs. Belmont, we looked much the same. What I worry about is that Murry gets so wound up. This Belmont team is good, but they're not better than us, that's for certain. Murry seems to be more patient this year, and he even said vs. JU that he told them at half 'don't panic.' That's important here - if we do get down, don't panic, be patient, and pressure the hell out of them.

The difference between Renfroe and Hare is that Renfroe is not a shooting threat from the outside (11-3's this year). This is where we could really use Hubbard and Davis. Incidentally, does anyone know the status of Hubbard? We could really use Hubbard & Davis to blanket these 2 the entire game. Belmont is thin at the PG position. Shutting down Renfroe is essential.

This game will be as much psychological as it is X's and O's. Belmont has not only beaten us, but embarrassed us in our house. My biggest concern is getting down early and the playes thinking, "Here we go again..."

I hope Kenyona Swader's ghost is there tomorrow. And in the words of John Shulman, I hope CP "growls" at Wicke and imposes his will.

We opened up with the press against Belmont in the A-Sun championship 2 years ago, didn't work out well.

I really don't remember how we opened up....but I maintain its going to have to be a combo of press and half court man to man. We cannot let them establish a rhythm.



We have something to prove tomorrow night. It's high time we prove it.

BU's forwards cannot compare athletically to Brown and Hamlin. We need to play inside-out.