12-21-2008, 10:13 PM
12-22-2008, 02:10 PM
I'm sure Gragg appreciates your input.
12-22-2008, 02:34 PM
RE: English.
I believe most here thought he was our #1 target, BUT:
If memory serves me correctly, some thought it might be ticketed to SDSU as HC. English is a West Coast guy and the MWC pays 2 x MAC HC salaries.
I developed a media contact who believes the "EMU Steve theory" that English was not interested in EMU and was interested in U of Washington as a DC and then 'something happened' and things changed.
Was it that Gragg was not sold on Jackson, or Loeffler?
Was it the EagleWarrior suggestion that EMU really sweetened the post? (350K is pretty sweet for EMU - that 2 x what Genyk earned).
I always believed that Gragg wanted a UofM person (they have instant credibility in Washtenaw County) and Gragg would prefer, if possible, an African American coach. Gragg serves on a committee dedicated to increasing minority hiring of I-A HCs.
This is a 425 foot home run for Gragg - tape measure job.
I believe most here thought he was our #1 target, BUT:
If memory serves me correctly, some thought it might be ticketed to SDSU as HC. English is a West Coast guy and the MWC pays 2 x MAC HC salaries.
I developed a media contact who believes the "EMU Steve theory" that English was not interested in EMU and was interested in U of Washington as a DC and then 'something happened' and things changed.
Was it that Gragg was not sold on Jackson, or Loeffler?
Was it the EagleWarrior suggestion that EMU really sweetened the post? (350K is pretty sweet for EMU - that 2 x what Genyk earned).
I always believed that Gragg wanted a UofM person (they have instant credibility in Washtenaw County) and Gragg would prefer, if possible, an African American coach. Gragg serves on a committee dedicated to increasing minority hiring of I-A HCs.
This is a 425 foot home run for Gragg - tape measure job.
12-22-2008, 03:39 PM
It was a very nice media event, over 100 people were there is my guess. Most did not stay for any of the eats. Met Coach English and his family was a very nice people. He said all they right things hopefully that come true.
12-23-2008, 03:38 AM
For the record.. i think English is a great hire, just the type of guy that EMU needs. But how come when a black guy gets hired, you never see white reporters calling out the administration for "racism" for hiring a black coach instead of a just as qualified white coach? Something that has always pissed me off in the media... people complaining that everytime that a white coach gets hired that it was because he was white and not a great football coach i.e. charles barkley.
12-23-2008, 06:17 AM
(12-23-2008 03:38 AM)EAGLEFOOTBALL Wrote: [ -> ]For the record.. i think English is a great hire, just the type of guy that EMU needs. But how come when a black guy gets hired, you never see white reporters calling out the administration for "racism" for hiring a black coach instead of a just as qualified white coach? Something that has always pissed me off in the media... people complaining that everytime that a white coach gets hired that it was because he was white and not a great football coach i.e. charles barkley.
Could really care less what the media has to say about ANYTHING. Really!
12-23-2008, 10:50 AM
(12-23-2008 03:38 AM)EAGLEFOOTBALL Wrote: [ -> ]For the record.. i think English is a great hire, just the type of guy that EMU needs. But how come when a black guy gets hired, you never see white reporters calling out the administration for "racism" for hiring a black coach instead of a just as qualified white coach? Something that has always pissed me off in the media... people complaining that everytime that a white coach gets hired that it was because he was white and not a great football coach i.e. charles barkley.
Because for the last 100 years or so it was ALWAYS the white guy that got hired. And hardly a wimper was heard.
12-23-2008, 12:34 PM
Well superfan those days are over. We have a black president. There is no excuse for people using racism for factors for hiring coaches anymore.
12-24-2008, 05:03 PM
[quote='EAGLEFOOTBALL' pid='3843478' dateline='1230053649']
Well superfan those days are over. We have a black president. There is no excuse for people using racism for factors for hiring coaches anymore.
[/quote
I am not and nether is EMU.
Out of 117 D1 teams how many have black coaches? 3 or 4?
And Obama is not black if anything he is Malono, half white half black. So in reality we only are half way there to a black president.
Well superfan those days are over. We have a black president. There is no excuse for people using racism for factors for hiring coaches anymore.
[/quote
I am not and nether is EMU.
Out of 117 D1 teams how many have black coaches? 3 or 4?
And Obama is not black if anything he is Malono, half white half black. So in reality we only are half way there to a black president.
12-25-2008, 06:35 AM
Let me spin it a different way.
Obama is a big deal because he made history. JFK to a much lesser degree as first Catholic president.
In football everyone knows that a very large percentage of the players are black. There is a feeling that black players would be preferential to playing for a black coach, just like some 93% of black voters voted for Obama.
Which gets us back to recruiting.
EMU needs an edge, any edge, going up against the like of CMU, WMU, UT, etc for recruits.
English is hopefully that edge.
I don't think it is 'political correctness' but 'recruiting correctness'.
Will black high school players and coaches feel a kinship to English? I hope so. Will English also get into homes because of his reputation at UofM? I hope so.
Ron English can call any h.s. football coach in Michigan and say, "hi, I'm Ron English, I'd like to talk with you about... (player)" and they'll know him and he has instant credibility.
Obama is a big deal because he made history. JFK to a much lesser degree as first Catholic president.
In football everyone knows that a very large percentage of the players are black. There is a feeling that black players would be preferential to playing for a black coach, just like some 93% of black voters voted for Obama.
Which gets us back to recruiting.
EMU needs an edge, any edge, going up against the like of CMU, WMU, UT, etc for recruits.
English is hopefully that edge.
I don't think it is 'political correctness' but 'recruiting correctness'.
Will black high school players and coaches feel a kinship to English? I hope so. Will English also get into homes because of his reputation at UofM? I hope so.
Ron English can call any h.s. football coach in Michigan and say, "hi, I'm Ron English, I'd like to talk with you about... (player)" and they'll know him and he has instant credibility.
12-25-2008, 09:04 AM
All this talk of racism permiates from the fact that in the professional geographic literature, S.E. Michigan is one of the most segregated regions in the United States. There is no more room for racism.
12-25-2008, 10:13 AM
(12-25-2008 09:04 AM)HuronBob Wrote: [ -> ]All this talk of racism permiates from the fact that in the professional geographic literature, S.E. Michigan is one of the most segregated regions in the United States. There is no more room for racism.
Thee myabr more "diverse" areas, but I doubt there is very much interacting. It is one thing to have a black family in your neighborhood, its quite another to have them over to your house.
In the United States there still is an invisible divide between the races. Many want to look at fairly superficial things such as diversity of a neighborhood, but if you want a true picture of racial harmony, look at how blacks and whites hang out together. I still think it isn't that common of an occurrence.
The origins of this are due more to distrust and fear than any malice in my opinion.
12-25-2008, 12:25 PM
I substitute teach 3 schools districts. I find there are three groups mostly black, mostly white and mixed. All three groups are roughly the same size.
12-25-2008, 08:07 PM
I agree that the invisible divide does exist. Over the years, that divide has become less and less significant for our family. Do you know why? Because my daughter loves basketball and my son loves football. Through sports we have interacted with, and in many cases become friends with familys we would not have normally had the opportunity to get to know. Man, it's one of the truly great things about sports.
I think sports has done more the reduce the divide in this country than anything else over the past century.
In regards to coaches and racism. Whether certain races are better at playing certain sports due to physical certain physical attributes is debatable. Taller, faster, stronger, shorter, quicker...there are legitimate better fits for certain sports, IMO. Itellectually, though, I think we are all on equal ground. There is nothing stopping members of any race from learning and loving a sport to the point of being able to coach it well.
When I look at blacks in coaching, I can't imagine any reason why black coaches should not at least represent the same precentage as blacks do in the general population of this country. And since there are so many blacks training and playing at the highest levels of football, I would expect that the number of coaches to maybe be a little higher than their percentage of the general population.
If blacks are say, 12% of the population of the U.S., I would think there should be 14 to 20 black coaches in D1 (119 schools). I would also expect there to be some asian, hispanic, and other minority coaches as well. There is a bias there, just like there was a bias against black quarterbacks, just like there is a bias against white cornerbacks and running backs...just like there is a bias against white basketball players. Are these attitudes purely racism? I don't think so, some are just tradition and some are habit. But racism has certainly been a factor.
I'll give you this example. Why are there so many white european basketball players making progress in the NBA. There are more grade school and junior high white basketball players in the U.S. then any other country in the world (and it's not even close), yet the increase in white players in the NBA in recent years has primarily been due to european players. Is it because, when it comes to player development and recruiting in the U.S., black players tend to get the nod over white players at the younger ages? Is that racism? No, I think it's bias. I think it's habit.
Anyway, I'm glad we hired a coach who is higher profile and successful and apparently very competent. I'm also glad he's a black coach. It's good in terms of the demographic of the school and the community in which EMU is located. It's good in terms of recruiting. And, in my opinon, it is the right thing to do within the landscape of D1 football.
I think sports has done more the reduce the divide in this country than anything else over the past century.
In regards to coaches and racism. Whether certain races are better at playing certain sports due to physical certain physical attributes is debatable. Taller, faster, stronger, shorter, quicker...there are legitimate better fits for certain sports, IMO. Itellectually, though, I think we are all on equal ground. There is nothing stopping members of any race from learning and loving a sport to the point of being able to coach it well.
When I look at blacks in coaching, I can't imagine any reason why black coaches should not at least represent the same precentage as blacks do in the general population of this country. And since there are so many blacks training and playing at the highest levels of football, I would expect that the number of coaches to maybe be a little higher than their percentage of the general population.
If blacks are say, 12% of the population of the U.S., I would think there should be 14 to 20 black coaches in D1 (119 schools). I would also expect there to be some asian, hispanic, and other minority coaches as well. There is a bias there, just like there was a bias against black quarterbacks, just like there is a bias against white cornerbacks and running backs...just like there is a bias against white basketball players. Are these attitudes purely racism? I don't think so, some are just tradition and some are habit. But racism has certainly been a factor.
I'll give you this example. Why are there so many white european basketball players making progress in the NBA. There are more grade school and junior high white basketball players in the U.S. then any other country in the world (and it's not even close), yet the increase in white players in the NBA in recent years has primarily been due to european players. Is it because, when it comes to player development and recruiting in the U.S., black players tend to get the nod over white players at the younger ages? Is that racism? No, I think it's bias. I think it's habit.
Anyway, I'm glad we hired a coach who is higher profile and successful and apparently very competent. I'm also glad he's a black coach. It's good in terms of the demographic of the school and the community in which EMU is located. It's good in terms of recruiting. And, in my opinon, it is the right thing to do within the landscape of D1 football.
12-25-2008, 09:41 PM
Nicely said !
Race should not be looked at when hiring, you should hire the best PERSON available. Period. I agree that RE is a great hire, but he would be a great hire even if he was Orange.
Hey EA, I.M. me I gotta talk to ya on the phone.
Race should not be looked at when hiring, you should hire the best PERSON available. Period. I agree that RE is a great hire, but he would be a great hire even if he was Orange.
Hey EA, I.M. me I gotta talk to ya on the phone.
12-25-2008, 11:04 PM
I hope we've got the racial stuff figured out.
What English is , is a man. I'm quite sure we've heard the last of, "Butch, you started it."
What English is , is a man. I'm quite sure we've heard the last of, "Butch, you started it."