It was deja vu all over again
Posted by BKoch at 12/14/2008 3:58 PM EST on Cincinnati.com
One of the most encouraging aspects of the UC’s pre-conference basketball season was that Deonta Vaughn, who has been the offensive workhorse for the Bearcats the past two seasons, had finally located some help. Vaughn, who averaged 17.3 points last year, was averaging only 13.7 heading into Saturday’s game against Xavier, not because his game was off but because he didn’t have to score as much as he did last year for the Bearcats to win. But that apparent balance turned out to be fool’s gold in UC’s 76-66 loss to the 10th-ranked Musketeers. With UC getting very little production from its front line, it fell again to Vaughn to carry the burden. He responded with a season-high 27 points – 19 in the second half – to help rally the Bearcats from a 14-point halftime deficit. But when he was double-teamed in the final 10 minutes of the game he ran out of gas and no one else for UC picked up the slack. “That’s something we’ve got to continue to work on,” Mick Cronin said today. “I’ve said all along balance and depth are relative to who you’re playing against. It’s imperative that we have other options. It’s imperative that we have other guys be able to score the basketball.” Cronin had hoped his front line would be an advantage against XU, but UC forwards Mike Williams, Yancy Gates and Alvin Mitchell, who had averaged a combined 30 points in UC’s first seven games, managed only five points against the Musketeers. Gates got into early foul trouble and scored two points in 18 minutes. Williams also got into first-half foul trouble and managed only three points with one rebound. Mitchell failed to score, attempting only two shots in nine minutes. The UC coach was also disappointed in the way XU took the game to his players in the early going. “The most disappointing thing is the fact that I felt we didn’t deliver the first punch,” Cronin said. “We took too many punches. They took it to us, whether it’s Xavier or anybody else coming into our arena. “We’ve got some guys we’ve got to get toughened up. Right now we do not play 40 minutes of high-intensity basketball. We’ve got to change that.”
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After sitting through the game Saturday, I realized that this Basketball program has collapsed. It is going to be very tough to get back to where they were. Actually, probably impossible. With the recruits that I know were at this game, not one will sign after that performance. I would not be surprised if Behannon backs out of his verbal. This is bad news for UC athletics as a whole. It would have been perfect to have both Football and Basketball performing high each year. Now the school must rely on a football program that has just gotten to a high level. Basketball is in serious trouble. We will sit in the basement with Rutgers in this conference.
Bcat Wrote:After sitting through the game Saturday, I realized that this Basketball program has collapsed. It is going to be very tough to get back to where they were. Actually, probably impossible. With the recruits that I know were at this game, not one will sign after that performance. I would not be surprised if Behannon backs out of his verbal. This is bad news for UC athletics as a whole. It would have been perfect to have both Football and Basketball performing high each year. Now the school must rely on a football program that has just gotten to a high level. Basketball is in serious trouble. We will sit in the basement with Rutgers in this conference.
Get all loaded firearms away from this guy.
No need. I'm passed that point. Now I just accept it and find new hobbies.
Bcat Wrote:With the recruits that I know were at this game, not one will sign after that performance. I would not be surprised if Behannon backs out of his verbal.
You want to take a bet on that?
subflea Wrote:Bcat Wrote:With the recruits that I know were at this game, not one will sign after that performance. I would not be surprised if Behannon backs out of his verbal.
You want to take a bet on that?
On Behannon ,or on any other guys signing? I only know of 4 other recruits that were at the game. Maybe five. I am confident in my prediction on the other recruits, I would probably gamble on Chane.
Bcat Wrote:After sitting through the game Saturday, I realized that this Basketball program has collapsed. It is going to be very tough to get back to where they were. Actually, probably impossible. With the recruits that I know were at this game, not one will sign after that performance. I would not be surprised if Behannon backs out of his verbal. This is bad news for UC athletics as a whole. It would have been perfect to have both Football and Basketball performing high each year. Now the school must rely on a football program that has just gotten to a high level. Basketball is in serious trouble. We will sit in the basement with Rutgers in this conference.
Take two steps back, step off the ledge.
I’ve been a critic of Cronin from day 1 and I still question a lot of his decisions, but I still think this team has loads of potential. Hopefully this game can be used a learning experience…now these newcomers know what kind of basketball is ahead in the BE playing in sold out BB arena with loud fans. The cherry has been popped for this team…hopefully they don’t bleed to death.
We all know the game sucked (so did the UConn FB game) but I care more about how this team responds after a tough loss. We know how the FB team showed it’s toughness after a tough UConn road loss, how will the BB team bounce back? I’m going with a 17-13 record on the season for this young team…hopefully they surpass that …anything less than .500 is UNEXCEPTABLE though!
Bcat Wrote:After sitting through the game Saturday, I realized that this Basketball program has collapsed. It is going to be very tough to get back to where they were. Actually, probably impossible. With the recruits that I know were at this game, not one will sign after that performance. I would not be surprised if Behannon backs out of his verbal. This is bad news for UC athletics as a whole. It would have been perfect to have both Football and Basketball performing high each year. Now the school must rely on a football program that has just gotten to a high level. Basketball is in serious trouble. We will sit in the basement with Rutgers in this conference.
This is a bit dramatic, don't you think? You can determine all of this from a 10 point loss to Xavier?
UC's record against Xavier the last 20 + years isn't exactly stellar, yet somehow they managed to win their share of games against other teams in many of those seasons.
2 or 3 years ago Xavier fans were ready to fire Sean Miller... it takes time to get young guys to know your system, both offensively and defensively. I'm disappointed that UC didn't seem ready to play the 1st half, but these players are young. For many of them they've only played 8 games at UC, and we all know that most of the lineups out there right now have only been together for 8 games.
Bcat Wrote:subflea Wrote:Bcat Wrote:With the recruits that I know were at this game, not one will sign after that performance. I would not be surprised if Behannon backs out of his verbal.
You want to take a bet on that?
On Behannon ,or on any other guys signing? I only know of 4 other recruits that were at the game. Maybe five. I am confident in my prediction on the other recruits, I would probably gamble on Chane.
I think Behannon is safe and one other guy that was there looks very promising. Saturday's game did not have a negative affect.
subflea Wrote:Bcat Wrote:subflea Wrote:Bcat Wrote:With the recruits that I know were at this game, not one will sign after that performance. I would not be surprised if Behannon backs out of his verbal.
You want to take a bet on that?
On Behannon ,or on any other guys signing? I only know of 4 other recruits that were at the game. Maybe five. I am confident in my prediction on the other recruits, I would probably gamble on Chane.
I think Behannon is safe and one other guy that was there looks very promising. Saturday's game did not have a negative affect.
I hope you are right. Is the other guy a PG? If so, I will be eating my words if Mick can land him.
Bcat Wrote:subflea Wrote:Bcat Wrote:subflea Wrote:Bcat Wrote:With the recruits that I know were at this game, not one will sign after that performance. I would not be surprised if Behannon backs out of his verbal.
You want to take a bet on that?
On Behannon ,or on any other guys signing? I only know of 4 other recruits that were at the game. Maybe five. I am confident in my prediction on the other recruits, I would probably gamble on Chane.
I think Behannon is safe and one other guy that was there looks very promising. Saturday's game did not have a negative affect.
I hope you are right. Is the other guy a PG? If so, I will be eating my words if Mick can land him.
My info is coming from subscription sites, so I really don't want to go into details about who it is. I will say that it would be a very good pickup for us. I think it will be awhile before this kid makes a decision, butright now we are very much in the running.
subflea Wrote:Bcat Wrote:subflea Wrote:Bcat Wrote:subflea Wrote:Bcat Wrote:With the recruits that I know were at this game, not one will sign after that performance. I would not be surprised if Behannon backs out of his verbal.
You want to take a bet on that?
On Behannon ,or on any other guys signing? I only know of 4 other recruits that were at the game. Maybe five. I am confident in my prediction on the other recruits, I would probably gamble on Chane.
I think Behannon is safe and one other guy that was there looks very promising. Saturday's game did not have a negative affect.
I hope you are right. Is the other guy a PG? If so, I will be eating my words if Mick can land him.
My info is coming from subscription sites, so I really don't want to go into details about who it is. I will say that it would be a very good pickup for us. I think it will be awhile before this kid makes a decision, butright now we are very much in the running.
ok cool.
Bcat Wrote:After sitting through the game Saturday, I realized that this Basketball program has collapsed. It is going to be very tough to get back to where they were. Actually, probably impossible. With the recruits that I know were at this game, not one will sign after that performance. I would not be surprised if Behannon backs out of his verbal. This is bad news for UC athletics as a whole. It would have been perfect to have both Football and Basketball performing high each year. Now the school must rely on a football program that has just gotten to a high level. Basketball is in serious trouble. We will sit in the basement with Rutgers in this conference.
Actually I am encouraged about Saturday. I dont like that we lost but that's a young team that has progressed a lot since Mick's 1st year. I think the future is very bright.
Quit the panicking everyone. We are super young still. We have one player in his 3rd year and a bunch of freshman and sophomores. Xavier is a top 10 team that has a ton of experience and knows the importance of the game. A bad team would have folded after the 1st half, but the Cats rallied, though did run out of gas. I saw good signs from some of the youngsters, though plenty of mistakes, but they are correctable. We lost 2 players to injury, one being an expected key player and starter. I still think we can be a bubble team this year, but I expect big things next season. I still fail to understand why people expect so much so soon. We had no team 2 years ago and were lucky to field a semi-competitive roster. Read that again, we had no team 2 years ago.
If we were in C-USA, we would probably still not be back since I don't think we would have quite as much success recruiting, though it would be easier. We play in the best conference in America and have competed the last couple seasons with teams that arguably had no business finishing where they did. With a young and inexperienced team again this season, we will have some ups and downs again. But the players will grow and learn. My goal as a fan is not to make the NCAAs, but to make the Final Four and win a national championship. I understand that isn't going to happen overnight, but I do think we are headed in the right direction.
lazyeyep22 Wrote:Bcat Wrote:After sitting through the game Saturday, I realized that this Basketball program has collapsed. It is going to be very tough to get back to where they were. Actually, probably impossible. With the recruits that I know were at this game, not one will sign after that performance. I would not be surprised if Behannon backs out of his verbal. This is bad news for UC athletics as a whole. It would have been perfect to have both Football and Basketball performing high each year. Now the school must rely on a football program that has just gotten to a high level. Basketball is in serious trouble. We will sit in the basement with Rutgers in this conference.
Get all loaded firearms away from this guy.
"Hide the poison and the shoot'n guns Honey, I see bcat a head'n up the path and he's look'n downright suicidal."
BigDawg Wrote:Quit the panicking everyone. We are super young still. We have one player in his 3rd year and a bunch of freshman and sophomores. Xavier is a top 10 team that has a ton of experience and knows the importance of the game. A bad team would have folded after the 1st half, but the Cats rallied, though did run out of gas. I saw good signs from some of the youngsters, though plenty of mistakes, but they are correctable. We lost 2 players to injury, one being an expected key player and starter. I still think we can be a bubble team this year, but I expect big things next season. I still fail to understand why people expect so much so soon. We had no team 2 years ago and were lucky to field a semi-competitive roster. Read that again, we had no team 2 years ago.
If we were in C-USA, we would probably still not be back since I don't think we would have quite as much success recruiting, though it would be easier. We play in the best conference in America and have competed the last couple seasons with teams that arguably had no business finishing where they did. With a young and inexperienced team again this season, we will have some ups and downs again. But the players will grow and learn. My goal as a fan is not to make the NCAAs, but to make the Final Four and win a national championship. I understand that isn't going to happen overnight, but I do think we are headed in the right direction.
S___________________Xavier__________UC
Seniors _____________2________________2
Juniors ______________2________________2
Sophomores__________6________________6
Freshmen____________4________________4
I don't get the whole lack of experience excuse. No college player has more than 4 years of experience and all schools are bound by the same recruiting rules.
UC has 1 scholarship player with more than 1 year of PT at UC. How hard is that to understand?
subflea Wrote:UC has 1 scholarship player with more than 1 year of PT at UC.
I get this point. I am sympathetic to this point. But Mike Williams is a 5th year senior, and Vaughn is a 3rd year starter at pg. Bishop had significant playing time last season. The breakdown of UC and XU players by class is telling. Xavier is not killing UC in the experience department.
I am by no means giving up on anything, but I can understand peoples annoyance with the constant excuses about this team.
I still thing the biggest issue was failure to recruit multiple pgs (one true frosh just does not cut it) and failure to find a consistent scoring option on the interior (hopefully gates and Biggie can get there).
Mike Williams also hasn't played in 2 years and saw limited PT in Texas because of the talent in front of him. X has far more actual game experience than UC. The lack of a PG is major problem. That needs to be priority #1 for the 2010 class.