CSNbbs

Personally ... I think this is all very, very cool... again, not UAB-related, but interesting to those around the UAB/Birmingham area
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Jeffco trolley on fast track
Friday, December 10, 2004
ERIC VELASCO
News staff writer

Jefferson County commissioners said Thursday they plan to spend $25 million of county money next week to revive a streetcar system in Birmingham.

A majority of commissioners said in a meeting Thursday they're ready to move ahead to resume streetcar service in Birmingham now, and seek federal funding later.

The county can get four miles of streetcars ready to run by the end of 2007 for $30 million, consultants said Thursday.

Meanwhile, a proposal to establish a county-appointed railroad authority to operate the streetcars may be derailed, because three commissioners said they would not support it.

The commission is scheduled to vote Tuesday on both the railroad authority and spending $25 million over five years for the streetcar system.

Commissioners want to resurrect the 1880s-era streetcar system that operated throughout downtown Birmingham and out to the suburbs. The county hopes to get $4 in federal money for every $1 it invests.

The first phase could be operating by the end of 2007 if the county doesn't encounter any roadblocks, such as right-of-way acquisition or turf battles between governments and agencies, said Georgia-based consultants Jordon Jones & Goulding.

The county could save money by using prefabricated track for the electric-powered streetcars, the consultants said.

Commissioner Gary White, however, said the consultants' best-case scenario was unlikely.

Projects of similar scope cost $27 million in Tampa; $57 million in Portland, Ore.; and $35 million in Memphis, JJ&G's study showed. An earlier study by the Regional Planning Commission estimated a more extensive system in Birmingham would cost $60 million.

JJ&G's presentation helped convince White and Commissioners Shelia Smoot and Bettye Fine Collins that a railroad authority proposed by Commission President Larry Langford won't work. It may not be able to obtain money from the Federal Transit Authority because it already is funding the Birmingham-Jefferson County Transit Authority.

"The FTA will look unkindly on a new agency battling with an existing agency," said Paul Moore, a JJ&G engineer. "But if they show they are working together, the FTA will allow funding."

White, Smoot and Collins said Thursday they'd prefer the system to be run by the regional transit authority that the Legislature approved last year.


Break impasse:

The commissioners want state lawmakers to drop an amendment on the transit-authority bill that says it can't be established until local leaders come up with a 20 percent match to $87 million in federal money set aside by Sen. Richard Shelby. Several attempts to produce matching funds have failed.

Langford said he would have no problem if commissioners reject his railroad authority proposal. He said he just wants to break the transit impasse.

"I'm for whatever moves us forward," said Langford, who said he would support the regional transit authority. "Let's just do it."

Smoot, who hired JJ&G for the transit study, said the county could get started in January if commissioners approve streetcar funding Tuesday. Once it can show the FTA that it can make the system work, it can seek federal money, she said.

"We've been working six months to put together a comprehensive plan," Smoot said. "We're ahead of the game. Once the streetcars are in place, the rest of the rail transit will come."

The consultants suggested the county also explore supplemental funding such as tax-increment financing, which would use the property tax windfall from rising property values along the streetcar routes. White said that's not likely to help much, since Alabama property taxes are the lowest in the nation.

Another way to generate money is to sell naming rights for the system or individual streetcars, consultants said.

The JJ&G study noted that SunTrust Bank and Time Warner sponsored vehicles in Tampa's system for $250,000 each. Each train would cost at least $400,000, the consultants said. White put the price closer to $750,000.

Here is the currently proposed track that would become effective in the INITIAL stage of the project...

Only problem with that is that it's going to take them until the end of 2007 to have the first phase up and running.

I'm sorry, but that's just pathetic. I don't know how long it takes to implement a trolley system in a city of comparable size but I have a feeling it would get finished a lot faster somewhere else.

STLouis Blazer Wrote:Only problem with that is that it's going to take them until the end of 2007 to have the first phase up and running.

I'm sorry, but that's just pathetic. I don't know how long it takes to implement a trolley system in a city of comparable size but I have a feeling it would get finished a lot faster somewhere else.

For things around Birmingham, you should realize that's quick for us. They're going to vote this next week on it. That's pretty quick moving considering it was just rumor a couple months ago. Corridor X, I-22, might not even be done by 2007 and Corridor X has been planned for YEARS.

Here's a rendering of what it would look like ...pretty nice if you ask me...

It actually is UAB related...in a similar article in the Post-Herald, it was mentioned that the County Commision would be meeting with UAB officials to seek their approval of the plan. UAB approval is neccesary because the first two main lines would both cross the campus. Without this approval the trolleys would have to circumvent the campus, because as an arm of the state government, UAB's authority supercedes that of the city or the county.

Your map only shows the north-south line...they specifically mentioned an east-west line running along 6th or 7th Aves South ...also to be in operation by 2007.

Might as well mention it now ...there are rumblings of potentially getting a Five Points to Vulcan cablecar line. Pure rumor at this point, but makes for interesting convo. There would be major right of way issues with that though.

blazerjay Wrote:It actually is UAB related...in a similar article in the Post-Herald, it was mentioned that the County Commision would be meeting with UAB officials to seek their approval of the plan. UAB approval is neccesary because the first two main lines would both cross the campus. Without this approval the trolleys would have to circumvent the campus, because as an arm of the state government, UAB's authority supercedes that of the city or the county.

Your map only shows the north-south line...they specifically mentioned an east-west line running along 6th or 7th Aves South ...also to be in operation by 2007.

Then what do you guys think? I'm for it, personally.

I'm for anything remotely progressive...At least it is some effort to secure the federal matching funds that have been gathering dust for several years now....


The P-H article also mentioned longer range plans for lines to Trussville via the Airport....Homewood to Vestavia to Hoover....to N Bham to Fultondale to Gardendale and West End to Ensley to Fairfield to Bessemer....

My only conern is that no-one will ride them. My Uncle remembers the old trolleys and said that they were a very slow way of transport...speed and frequent stops.... They way everyone is tied to their car and in such a hurry, might not bode well for ridership numbers.

I also find it important to point out that the streetcar system of Birmingham around the 1880s had a couple hundred miles of railways associated with the streetcars. I dont know how much of this will be revived, but definitely these two lines will be just in the initial stage of the project. What will be interesting is to see whether they will go up 20th Street over Red Mtn down to Homewood or whether they'll create a $88 million light-rail-capable tunnel through the base of Red Mtn.

Blazer85 Wrote:Here's a rendering of what it would look like ...pretty nice if you ask me...

That picture makes it look more like a light rail system than a trolley system, but I might just be used to the trolleys in Memphis

Memphis Blazer Wrote:

Blazer85 Wrote:Here's a rendering of what it would look like ...pretty nice if you ask me...

That picture makes it look more like a light rail system than a trolley system, but I might just be used to the trolleys in Memphis

They're wanting to make the rails light-rail capable in preparation for the future $588 million in transportation spending around Birmingham that they are planning. They might consider some throw-back 1800s era streetcars, but the ones going out to the suburbs would most likely be more modernistic like the one in the picture. The exact design of the streetcars has yet to have been determined... primarily they're focusing on the track-development right now.

When you say streetcars, I think of what Memphis has.

When you say light rail, I think of what Minneapolis has.

Four miles of streetcar tracks for $30 million? Yeesh.

God knows we need better public transportation here... but they'll screw it up. City Council just ran off the best, brightest and most innovative public transportation head we've had here in ages. Guess he wasn't funneling the funding through the right brother-in-laws. Yeah, I'm cynical, but the B'ham government justifies it.

UAB Band Dad Wrote:Four miles of streetcar tracks for $30 million? Yeesh.

God knows we need better public transportation here... but they'll screw it up. City Council just ran off the best, brightest and most innovative public transportation head we've had here in ages. Guess he wasn't funneling the funding through the right brother-in-laws. Yeah, I'm cynical, but the B'ham government justifies it.

Yeah, I heard about him getting fired. That was the stupidest decision ever.

At face value, the only reason he got fired is because he didn't play into Birmingham "gimme-money" politics. And that's not far from the truth.

delete

That is good
Bhm is getting with UAB(progressive thinking) ,,watch out Tuscalosser and the Capital City
UAB and BHM getting big and this is good for UAB athlectic :)

Blazer85 Wrote:

STLouis Blazer Wrote:Only problem with that is that it's going to take them until the end of 2007 to have the first phase up and running.

I'm sorry, but that's just pathetic.  I don't know how long it takes to implement a trolley system in a city of comparable size but I have a feeling it would get finished a lot faster somewhere else.

For things around Birmingham, you should realize that's quick for us. They're going to vote this next week on it. That's pretty quick moving considering it was just rumor a couple months ago. Corridor X, I-22, might not even be done by 2007 and Corridor X has been planned for YEARS.

Fob James is 100% at fault for corX not being finished. James stopped work on CX while in power. the money was there he just refused to allow it to proceed. Four years behind for no good reason.

UAB Band Dad Wrote:Four miles of streetcar tracks for $30 million? Yeesh.

God knows we need better public transportation here... but they'll screw it up. City Council just ran off the best, brightest and most innovative public transportation head we've had here in ages. Guess he wasn't funneling the funding through the right brother-in-laws. Yeah, I'm cynical, but the B'ham government justifies it.

It's actually not that expensive relative to other projects. I've seen two-mile stretches of rails costing as much as $56 million. The cost of upgrading or uncovering old rails costs on average $5 million per mile. The cost of building new rails completely from scratch costs on average about $15 million per mile. We're fortunate that Birmingham has hundreds of miles of old lines still buried.

I noticed that a large numbers of on street parking will be displaced. Speaking of parking, where would I park my truck to get on the trolley? The trolley system (my late grandfather was a driver in the old days) was for a time when people lived and worked within a few miles of downtown. High speed rail (think Atlanta and D.C.) is the way to go now days. If trolleys are so good then how about some hitching posts for my horse and buggy!