11-14-2008, 02:43 PM
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11-14-2008, 05:39 PM
The Magic continues!
11-14-2008, 05:50 PM
So one of this year's anticipated top MAC teams loses to a TCU team expected to be at the bottom of the Mountain West. Sheesh.
11-14-2008, 06:12 PM
And our recruit Jim took with him looked pretty good (Ronnie Moss).
11-14-2008, 09:01 PM
Good for J.C.:ncaabbs:
11-16-2008, 08:24 PM
no doubt the man can coach
11-17-2008, 12:32 AM
It would be interesting to see if JC could figure out a way to beat his old team. Obviously, that isn't going to happen this season but it would be interesting to say the least. Frankly, I'm still a little cheesed at him for leaving a success-prone program for a total bomb when in the long run, he had a better shot at getting a "real" job by sticking with KSU, despite the non-secular salary. I guess that I'm the only one that doesn't think it was a good decision on his part but I think playing TCU would drive the point home pretty well!
11-17-2008, 08:08 AM
Kballard122 Wrote:It would be interesting to see if JC could figure out a way to beat his old team. Obviously, that isn't going to happen this season but it would be interesting to say the least. Frankly, I'm still a little cheesed at him for leaving a success-prone program for a total bomb when in the long run, he had a better shot at getting a "real" job by sticking with KSU, despite the non-secular salary. I guess that I'm the only one that doesn't think it was a good decision on his part but I think playing TCU would drive the point home pretty well!
I second that argument!
11-17-2008, 10:21 AM
AlphaFlash Wrote:Kballard122 Wrote:It would be interesting to see if JC could figure out a way to beat his old team. Obviously, that isn't going to happen this season but it would be interesting to say the least. Frankly, I'm still a little cheesed at him for leaving a success-prone program for a total bomb when in the long run, he had a better shot at getting a "real" job by sticking with KSU, despite the non-secular salary. I guess that I'm the only one that doesn't think it was a good decision on his part but I think playing TCU would drive the point home pretty well!
I second that argument!
It would be an interesting game for sure. So what don't you understand about his new job and his decision:
- more than doubled KSU salary
- conference with multiple NCAA bids
- seperate bball practice facility
- private jet to road games
- Greater Dallas area vs NE Ohio
I can't fathom why people question his move. I honestly believe he is one of the top 40 coaches in all of NCAA. I wish him well and i hope he's ultra successful and it cant hurt us. The days of going from the MAC to Big East, Big Ten (or pick your favorite big conference) are over. This is another step to get him to the top.
11-17-2008, 10:43 AM
The talent level he has brought into TCU already is above the typical MAC level recruit, for the most part. He nurtured a lot of over-achievers into great careers and seasons in his tenure at KSU. Made a career out of it, really.
11-17-2008, 11:53 AM
Quote:It would be an interesting game for sure. So what don't you understand about his new job and his decision:
- more than doubled KSU salary
- conference with multiple NCAA bids
- seperate bball practice facility
- private jet to road games
- Greater Dallas area vs NE Ohio
I can't fathom why people question his move. I honestly believe he is one of the top 40 coaches in all of NCAA. I wish him well and i hope he's ultra successful and it cant hurt us. The days of going from the MAC to Big East, Big Ten (or pick your favorite big conference) are over. This is another step to get him to the top
Could not agree more, ksu315. Show me a 40 something HC that doesn't want something better after six years of unrivaled success in the MAC and I'll show you a coach with nowhere else to go.
11-17-2008, 11:59 AM
axeme Wrote:The talent level he has brought into TCU already is above the typical MAC level recruit, for the most part.Yeah I guess so, he took our best recruit with him and the kid is starting for them as a freshman.
11-20-2008, 01:24 PM
FlashFan Wrote:Good for J.C.:ncaabbs:
I am a little conflicted about Christian's move to TCU. As a Akron fan I am glad to see him gone because there is no doubt the man could coach and just maybe the Flashes will be a little easier to defeat. But as a fan of a team in the MAC I really would like to see the best coaches and players gravitate and stay in the conference. For this to happen we need better facilities, increased coaching wages, and the respect that gets more than one invitation to the dance.
11-20-2008, 01:43 PM
I totally agree. I admit that I am being a little unrealistic but as far as the MAC goes, if we had some people around here that would be charitable enough to stick around for a few years, our conference would become a multiple bid conference as well. KSU is right on the verge of doing some serious damage as far as basketball goes. I'm sure that they could spend a little more money to retain good coaches if they saw us break the top 25 multiple times in a relatively short time period.
Yes a private jet is awesome, along with a doubling of an already OUTRAGEOUS amount of cash for a job that isn't all that much more complex than the things a lot of people do. But I'm not sure it compares to what you get when you put KSU in the elite 8 and land a job at Arkansas the next season, rather than starting from scratch.
The mac would have more recruiting power and appeal to everybody if we could collectively take that next step. The Horizon league has a few teams that are perennial tournament threats and KSU has become that in the MAC. The key difference is, there aren't a lot of major teams taking us seriously yet. The first step in turning a program into a large success at our level is being that mid-major that you DO NOT want to see walking through your door. SLU's coach even admitted he wasn't ready to see KSU walk through his front door yesterday even after we graduated 2 major players and lost our HC. I'm not sure if Kansas will feel the same next week though. To them we are probably the team that their coach says "KSU is a team to be taken serously," the week before the game. It would be nice if their players knew it, and felt us breathing down their necks without having to be told how serious our team is. I honestly think that retention of coaches and building a strong program requires a bit of charitable effort, as well as very hard work from the guys on the court. Our guys are putting in their 40 hours a week and they worked their balls off for JC last year. I am glad Geno was right there to take over after Christian left, otherwise there are a few seniors, especially the 4th year ones that would be pretty bummed.
It's been said before, but I hope that Ford knows how lucky he is.
Obviously college basketball is as dog-eat-dog as anything else these days. But you don't trade a pit bull for a poodle, no matter how many gems are embedded into it's collar!
Yes a private jet is awesome, along with a doubling of an already OUTRAGEOUS amount of cash for a job that isn't all that much more complex than the things a lot of people do. But I'm not sure it compares to what you get when you put KSU in the elite 8 and land a job at Arkansas the next season, rather than starting from scratch.
The mac would have more recruiting power and appeal to everybody if we could collectively take that next step. The Horizon league has a few teams that are perennial tournament threats and KSU has become that in the MAC. The key difference is, there aren't a lot of major teams taking us seriously yet. The first step in turning a program into a large success at our level is being that mid-major that you DO NOT want to see walking through your door. SLU's coach even admitted he wasn't ready to see KSU walk through his front door yesterday even after we graduated 2 major players and lost our HC. I'm not sure if Kansas will feel the same next week though. To them we are probably the team that their coach says "KSU is a team to be taken serously," the week before the game. It would be nice if their players knew it, and felt us breathing down their necks without having to be told how serious our team is. I honestly think that retention of coaches and building a strong program requires a bit of charitable effort, as well as very hard work from the guys on the court. Our guys are putting in their 40 hours a week and they worked their balls off for JC last year. I am glad Geno was right there to take over after Christian left, otherwise there are a few seniors, especially the 4th year ones that would be pretty bummed.
It's been said before, but I hope that Ford knows how lucky he is.
Obviously college basketball is as dog-eat-dog as anything else these days. But you don't trade a pit bull for a poodle, no matter how many gems are embedded into it's collar!
11-20-2008, 02:46 PM
Let's face it. A majority of the MAC is in states that poorly fund education, especially higher ed. So, where is funding supposed to come from to buy new athletic facilities and awesome coaches? We can't raise tuition in order to spend 2 million on any program, academic or athletic. So where does this money come from? If you are Ohio State it comes from sellout after sellout of your sporting events. Specifically, football. Then everyone in the state of Ohio buying your school's apparel and calling themselves a "Buckeye," even if they never spent a dime in tuition to go to that school. So, where does that leave Kent, Akron and every other mid-major in the MAC's territory? We can raise admission, but less people then show up to games.
Here is where my above statement in this thread comes in: loyalty. In order to have a conference that excels, thus allowing our basketball program to excel, we need loyalty. Yes, I'm saying a coach that is loyal to the school, but also fans that are loyal to the program. But 5000 fans don't break down the gates for tickets at our schools. I can say for sure that CSU has a coach that is loyal to the school he works at. Kent State has a women's coach that remained loyal. After all, you can't tell me Lindsay had 0 offers in the 90's, especially 96.
I know the grass is greener in Texas.. Maybe purpler, purplier, whatever. Its a coach's dream. But, if we can get a coach that is loyal to just one of our schools -heck, even if its Akron- then we will be one of those greener pastures.
I know, I'm just dreaming. Its a dog-eat-dog business, and probably won't happen. But that is why I never understood the rich and famous lifestyle.
Here is where my above statement in this thread comes in: loyalty. In order to have a conference that excels, thus allowing our basketball program to excel, we need loyalty. Yes, I'm saying a coach that is loyal to the school, but also fans that are loyal to the program. But 5000 fans don't break down the gates for tickets at our schools. I can say for sure that CSU has a coach that is loyal to the school he works at. Kent State has a women's coach that remained loyal. After all, you can't tell me Lindsay had 0 offers in the 90's, especially 96.
I know the grass is greener in Texas.. Maybe purpler, purplier, whatever. Its a coach's dream. But, if we can get a coach that is loyal to just one of our schools -heck, even if its Akron- then we will be one of those greener pastures.
I know, I'm just dreaming. Its a dog-eat-dog business, and probably won't happen. But that is why I never understood the rich and famous lifestyle.
11-20-2008, 02:58 PM
Hmmm, how loyal was that CSU coach two jobs ago?
First, I don't expect coaches to stay at a school when clear advancement presents itself. And, as has been said before, most fans view loyalty as a one-way street. They want the coach to be loyal when they are winning but offer no loyalty when he is not. How much loyalty is Doug Martin getting from the fans who don't even want to honor the basic commitment the school has made to him? If you want loyalty, pay up, offer long term no-fire contracts with huge buyout clauses and you'll get loyalty. Of a sort.
Coaching contracts are a quid pro quo business: if you want unfettered loyalty, you'd better be prepared to give it, too, win or lose.
First, I don't expect coaches to stay at a school when clear advancement presents itself. And, as has been said before, most fans view loyalty as a one-way street. They want the coach to be loyal when they are winning but offer no loyalty when he is not. How much loyalty is Doug Martin getting from the fans who don't even want to honor the basic commitment the school has made to him? If you want loyalty, pay up, offer long term no-fire contracts with huge buyout clauses and you'll get loyalty. Of a sort.
Coaching contracts are a quid pro quo business: if you want unfettered loyalty, you'd better be prepared to give it, too, win or lose.
11-20-2008, 03:16 PM
axeme Wrote:If you want loyalty, pay up, offer long term no-fire contracts with huge buyout clauses and you'll get loyalty. Of a sort.From where my brother? Thats what I'm saying. We can't sell tickets, we can't raise tuition and the state won't properly fund the school. Even if the state did (see Rutgers), Lefton would see all that money into academics. Which I sorta agree on. Even when athletics tried the donor system with the chairbacks, they sat empty. Should athletics go into debt?
11-20-2008, 03:47 PM
Kent State is now seven years since the Elite 8 bid. There is no guarantee Kent State will ever get back there or that the MAC will be more than a one-bid league once in a blue moon. Jim Christian had peaked with Kent State. He got over the hump of getting them to the tournament by doing it in 2 of the last 3 years and kept the 20-win streak going. He didn't win an NCAA game but as we have agreed on in the past, those games are more due to matchups and luck than any real coaching ability.
Kent State's success in basketball has been bigger than any one coach. I wish Christian the best, but I am not going to spend all winter crying in my wheaties he is gone.
As for loyalty goes, if we had a football coach like Brian Kelly who turned CMU back into a conference power after years of being horrible, I would not begrudge him for carpetbagging because I would be too busy enjoying years of success. Cincinnati, Kelly's current employer, looks as though it is going to get left again, but I bet they get another coach in the Dantonio and Kelly mold.
Kent State's success in basketball has been bigger than any one coach. I wish Christian the best, but I am not going to spend all winter crying in my wheaties he is gone.
As for loyalty goes, if we had a football coach like Brian Kelly who turned CMU back into a conference power after years of being horrible, I would not begrudge him for carpetbagging because I would be too busy enjoying years of success. Cincinnati, Kelly's current employer, looks as though it is going to get left again, but I bet they get another coach in the Dantonio and Kelly mold.
11-20-2008, 04:11 PM
Good point, AlphaFlash. Where IS the Kent State apparel?? In Stark County, which most of you know borders Portage County to the south, I never see it. Every store, and I mean EVERY store, sells that ugly scarlet and gray Buckeye stuff - grocery stores, hospital hospitality shops, corner convenience stores, as well as, of course, all the stores that sell apparel. I know there is one store near North Canton that sells it, as my nieces bought Kent State T-shirts there, and I ASSUME they sell it at the Stark County Regional Campus of KSU, but I've never seen any anywhere, myself. Of course, maybe nobody would buy it. No store will take up space for something that doesn't move.
11-20-2008, 04:19 PM
Zips Fan Wrote:The fact of the matter is that we DO have a conference that has and has had long-term coaches....Witherspoon has been at Buffalo for 10 years, Christian and Dakich were both 10-year timelines, Charlie Coles is in his 13th season, and several others are in their 5th-6th season. And the list of new coaches are ambitious & talented guys, a number of which will go on to lead top-level programs. Stability is an inherent issue in the mid-major level of any business, but it isn't that much of an indictment for the competitive MAC schools -- at least in regard to roundball.FlashFan Wrote:Good for J.C.:ncaabbs:
I am a little conflicted about Christian's move to TCU. As a Akron fan I am glad to see him gone because there is no doubt the man could coach and just maybe the Flashes will be a little easier to defeat. But as a fan of a team in the MAC I really would like to see the best coaches and players gravitate and stay in the conference. For this to happen we need better facilities, increased coaching wages, and the respect that gets more than one invitation to the dance.
There will always be greener pastures but I can live with that.
To be honest, I prefer having schools like Kent and Miami with quality coaches and clean, competitve programs that consistently measure up to top-level programs nationally that have more advantages. I enjoy being the giant killer -- its fun, and as a Kent fan, it makes me proud of what we accomplish!
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