And, yes, my judgment is biased. I wanted BE to be a huge success from the git go....because the success of the BE stabilizes CUSA. However, even with my bias, the BE's success is way beyond than I ever thought possible. I root for Tulsa U, U of Oklahoma, and Oklahoma State. I must say, WVA running rough shod over Oklahoma was most pleasing....a short term pain but a long term statement that helps CUSA as much if not more than BE.
For some BE fans advocating a football only conference and/or split, I never understood it. If you could walk in Penn Quarter downtown entertainment area of Washington, DC, the nation's capitol, and see BE playing Georgetown in Verizon Center, how could you ever think of leaving that? Or Madison Square Garden. It is the St. Peter and Paul of college basketball....to give that up? Phillly? Chicago? Providence?
Emotions, for some, are perhaps running high. So I want to emphasize Tranghese's statement in the Cincinnati newspaper that
"I know the football schools wouldn't be on tv as much."
What does that mean? I don't know anything about tv but it appears that, given the very strong BE basketball, that it appears BE officials got/forced tv to air more BE football games than would have other wise been telecast. In othe words, it appears to me that BE used its good basketball to build BE football. Sort of reminds me of CUSA before Cincy, UL, and USF left.
This is not a flame of BE football. Rather, it is a compliment of good negotiating and the positives of BE Catholic schools. I define synergy as 1 plus 1 equals something more than 2. That is what BE football and basketball has done.
You have succeeded beyond all expectations, not only of critics but strong (biased) supporters as myself. I shake my head in disbelief of those among you that feel compelled to diss the BE and the Catholic schools. I guess there is something in the human soul that derives more satisfaction and perhaps more joy from someone else's suffering than enjoying one's own, in this case, HUGE, HUGE, HUGE success.
As the Providence Journal article states in quoting Tranghese
"Everyone is much more educated on all the issues than they were a few years ago."
Given the above statement, it appears none of us had the full facts. Tranghese's candid comments, allowed by his retirement, helps us understand whereas before there is confusion and questioning.
Again, huge congrats to the BE!
It is not a diss at the BE and the catholic schools. Its looking forward to what would make this league better and stronger in the long run. While Im very happy at the state of the league from where it was after the break up, the realities is that the curent situation prevents the football side from expanding, the current league situation will be trouble down the road because it is difficult to look out for what is needed for the league to grow when half the league has NO ties to football which is the bigest money maker now.
Quote:Given the above statement, it appears none of us had the full facts. Tranghese's candid comments, allowed by his retirement, helps us understand whereas before there is confusion and questioning.
You do know you're quoting a guy who admits that he has no say in expansion and was blindsided by the ACC right? He also wasn't the guy who talked to Louisville, Cincinnati and South Florida about joining the Big East. He also pretty much admits he is a basketball guy. There are a number of things that could lead to a split. Maybe the next television deal isn't lucrative enough to justify staying staying together. Maybe the football schools decide they need to add a new member or two and the basketball sides say know.
Maybe the football side simply decide they want an All-Sports conference of their own to control. When you're sharing a house with someone and splitting the bill it's nice. But one day you're going to want to add to your house and improve your house and your housemate is going to say no. And you're going to say that your idea will make the house look better and it would be fun. Your roommate is going to say they don't like it. You're going to complain that it's your house to and you should be able to do what you want and your roommate is going to make the same argument. And that's going to tick you off because it's your house to and you're tired of arguing about it. Then you're going to decide "why do I have to put up with this when I can get my own house and do whatever I want with it". So you save up your money and decide to move out.
Here's the problem: there are plenty of schools (we'll call them "East") that could be football candidates with the right offer...in no particular order, Army, Navy, Villanova, Georgetown, Temple, Delaware, UMass, etc., which won't bring in 70,000 fans but will still be competitive and fit the regional rivalry footprints. But this board has friends (we'll call them "Big") like UCF, Memphis, ECU, Marshall, etc. which are judged more valuable (in football, anyway) because they look like they do academically. Basketball wise, not even close.
Some people here seem to want more "Big" than "East"....and if the situation was right, how many losing seasons would it take before you say that Rutgers and UConn are expendable, too?
CatsClaw Wrote:Then you're going to decide "why do I have to put up with this when I can get my own house and do whatever I want with it". So you save up your money and decide to move out.
Problem is, the "you" is really eight different institutions, with different agendas and priorities. Louisville and Cincinnati and West Virginia and USF want a football-first, all-sports conference, and don't much care if this conference has its "footprint" on the East Coast, or not. They also don't much care if the old basketball rivalries survive, or not. It's not that killing off those rivalries with St. John's, Seton Hall, etc., is at the top of their agenda. It's just that preserving those rivalries isn't even on the agenda, except as a footnote. UConn and Syracuse especially, but also Rutgers and Pitt to a lesser extent, are not going to go along with that, unless and until they can see their precious little BCS-checks blowing away in the wind.
So then "you" have to decide, am I going to move out of this house that pays me millions of dollars whether I'm any good or not, or do I move out and build a new house with Louisville, Cincinnati, West Virginia, and South Florida. Will that house keep treating you like royalty, or not? Better make sure beforehand...
Native Georgian Wrote:CatsClaw Wrote:Then you're going to decide "why do I have to put up with this when I can get my own house and do whatever I want with it". So you save up your money and decide to move out.
Problem is, the "you" is really eight different institutions, with different agendas and priorities. Louisville and Cincinnati and West Virginia and USF want a football-first, all-sports conference, and don't much care if this conference has its "footprint" on the East Coast, or not. They also don't much care if the old basketball rivalries survive, or not. It's not that killing off those rivalries with St. John's, Seton Hall, etc., is at the top of their agenda. It's just that preserving those rivalries isn't even on the agenda, except as a footnote. UConn and Syracuse especially, but also Rutgers and Pitt to a lesser extent, are not going to go along with that, unless and until they can see their precious little BCS-checks blowing away in the wind.
So then "you" have to decide, am I going to move out of this house that pays me millions of dollars whether I'm any good or not, or do I move out and build a new house with Louisville, Cincinnati, West Virginia, and South Florida. Will that house keep treating you like royalty, or not? Better make sure beforehand...
Rutgers and Pittsburgh will go where ever West Virginia goes also. So with Memphis, Central Florida and East Carolina you have a nine team all-sports conference. So I ask you where else does Syracuse and U Conn have a football home at? The MAC?
Native Georgian Wrote:CatsClaw Wrote:Then you're going to decide "why do I have to put up with this when I can get my own house and do whatever I want with it". So you save up your money and decide to move out.
Problem is, the "you" is really eight different institutions, with different agendas and priorities. Louisville and Cincinnati and West Virginia and USF want a football-first, all-sports conference, and don't much care if this conference has its "footprint" on the East Coast, or not. They also don't much care if the old basketball rivalries survive, or not. It's not that killing off those rivalries with St. John's, Seton Hall, etc., is at the top of their agenda. It's just that preserving those rivalries isn't even on the agenda, except as a footnote. UConn and Syracuse especially, but also Rutgers and Pitt to a lesser extent, are not going to go along with that, unless and until they can see their precious little BCS-checks blowing away in the wind.
So then "you" have to decide, am I going to move out of this house that pays me millions of dollars whether I'm any good or not, or do I move out and build a new house with Louisville, Cincinnati, West Virginia, and South Florida. Will that house keep treating you like royalty, or not? Better make sure beforehand...
What are you smoking? FOOTBALL IS FIRST. Eight different schools with eight different agendas? All of the football schools are in favor of either adding another football school or splitting. And the power-brokers (Boeheim, Calhoun) in Big East basketball had gone on record voicing their displeasure over the size of basketball league and supporting a split.
As for appreciating tradition and history, remember that history has a way of repeating itself. The Big East football schools need to be proactive to avoid a repeat of 2003. Equilibrium = Death. And if Big East football schools want stability, then they must explore options.
All that it takes for Big East football to be in crisis again is for ONE school to get cherry-picked by another league.
I would prefer Big East football not to go the way of the Do-Do.
You nailed it!
WacoBearcat Wrote:I would prefer Big East football not to go the way of the Do-Do.
But you would presumably not care if Big East basketball did, which is at the crux of the problem.
DFW HOYA Wrote:WacoBearcat Wrote:I would prefer Big East football not to go the way of the Do-Do.
But you would presumably not care if Big East basketball did, which is at the crux of the problem.
No, the crux of the problem is that we don't have enough football schools, and too many basketball schools in the Big East. An eight team football league is too small, and a sixteen team basketball league is too big. Something has to give.
Native Georgian Wrote:CatsClaw Wrote:Then you're going to decide "why do I have to put up with this when I can get my own house and do whatever I want with it". So you save up your money and decide to move out.
Problem is, the "you" is really eight different institutions, with different agendas and priorities. Louisville and Cincinnati and West Virginia and USF want a football-first, all-sports conference, and don't much care if this conference has its "footprint" on the East Coast, or not. They also don't much care if the old basketball rivalries survive, or not. It's not that killing off those rivalries with St. John's, Seton Hall, etc., is at the top of their agenda. It's just that preserving those rivalries isn't even on the agenda, except as a footnote. UConn and Syracuse especially, but also Rutgers and Pitt to a lesser extent, are not going to go along with that, unless and until they can see their precious little BCS-checks blowing away in the wind.
So then "you" have to decide, am I going to move out of this house that pays me millions of dollars whether I'm any good or not, or do I move out and build a new house with Louisville, Cincinnati, West Virginia, and South Florida. Will that house keep treating you like royalty, or not? Better make sure beforehand...
-- I'm assuming when you say "USF, UL want something", you actually mean the fan bases want something. However, if you are implying which BE schools are political allies etc, I don't think you could be further off. IMO, no two BE schools have been closer since the ACC raid then WVU and Pitt. Our two presidents and administrations met constantly during/after the raid and have been on the same page since. WVU and Rutgers have been close allies in the early 1980s/Eastern 8
-- Couldn' tell you who is for or against the split...but I am pretty sure that Pitt/WVU/Rutgers will be on the same side of the issue
Jackson
Native Georgian Wrote:CatsClaw Wrote:Then you're going to decide "why do I have to put up with this when I can get my own house and do whatever I want with it". So you save up your money and decide to move out.
Problem is, the "you" is really eight different institutions, with different agendas and priorities. Louisville and Cincinnati and West Virginia and USF want a football-first, all-sports conference, and don't much care if this conference has its "footprint" on the East Coast, or not. They also don't much care if the old basketball rivalries survive, or not. It's not that killing off those rivalries with St. John's, Seton Hall, etc., is at the top of their agenda. It's just that preserving those rivalries isn't even on the agenda, except as a footnote. UConn and Syracuse especially, but also Rutgers and Pitt to a lesser extent, are not going to go along with that, unless and until they can see their precious little BCS-checks blowing away in the wind.
So then "you" have to decide, am I going to move out of this house that pays me millions of dollars whether I'm any good or not, or do I move out and build a new house with Louisville, Cincinnati, West Virginia, and South Florida. Will that house keep treating you like royalty, or not? Better make sure beforehand...
Excellent Post! You hit the nail on the head.
Wilkie01 Wrote:Rutgers and Pittsburgh will go where ever West Virginia goes also. So with Memphis, Central Florida and East Carolina you have a nine team all-sports conference.
Considering you are a fan of a school that has been a part of this conference for less than 5 years, I don't think you really know what you're talking about. Without Syracuse and UConn, there is no conference, and though RU and Pitt will look out for themselves, I could never forsee a situation like this. I can tell you that a conference that you are describing would be laughable at best and certainly would not retain BCS status. Furthermore, I don't think ESPN would want to pay big money to a conference that takes itself out of the Northeast and does not include Syracuse and UConn. Even further I would suspect that the ACC would EASILY snap up these two schools and would bring in far more money then you're C-USA part 2 (not that it would make me happy, but it's true). You've got to grow up and look at reality and stop being so elitist about your damn school.
Jackson1011 Wrote:Native Georgian Wrote:CatsClaw Wrote:Then you're going to decide "why do I have to put up with this when I can get my own house and do whatever I want with it". So you save up your money and decide to move out.
Problem is, the "you" is really eight different institutions, with different agendas and priorities. Louisville and Cincinnati and West Virginia and USF want a football-first, all-sports conference, and don't much care if this conference has its "footprint" on the East Coast, or not. They also don't much care if the old basketball rivalries survive, or not. It's not that killing off those rivalries with St. John's, Seton Hall, etc., is at the top of their agenda. It's just that preserving those rivalries isn't even on the agenda, except as a footnote. UConn and Syracuse especially, but also Rutgers and Pitt to a lesser extent, are not going to go along with that, unless and until they can see their precious little BCS-checks blowing away in the wind.
So then "you" have to decide, am I going to move out of this house that pays me millions of dollars whether I'm any good or not, or do I move out and build a new house with Louisville, Cincinnati, West Virginia, and South Florida. Will that house keep treating you like royalty, or not? Better make sure beforehand...
-- I'm assuming when you say "USF, UL want something", you actually mean the fan bases want something. However, if you are implying which BE schools are political allies etc, I don't think you could be further off. IMO, no two BE schools have been closer since the ACC raid then WVU and Pitt. Our two presidents and administrations met constantly during/after the raid and have been on the same page since. WVU and Rutgers have been close allies in the early 1980s/Eastern 8
-- Couldn' tell you who is for or against the split...but I am pretty sure that Pitt/WVU will be on the same side of the issue
Jackson
Exactly. And I know that Cincinnati and West Virginia are VERY close. West Virginia were the main ones pushing for Cincinnati to get into the Big East (along with Syracuse). And then, later, Pitt endorsed us. This was publicly acknowledged since September of 2003. Just because fans say something doesn't mean the administration agrees. For all I know Cincinnati could be against a split. I do know that Pitt and WVU are VERY, VERY close (they were the ones that interviewed Cincinnati's president personally) and Cincinnati would more then likely side with WVU and Pitt this issue.
DFW Hoya, your a nice poster and I enjoy your posts. However, this is the heart of the issue, the football schools want a conference that is strong both in football and basketball. The basketball schools that do not field 1A football do not really care about 1A football. You guys loo out for basketball at the expense of 1A football. I do not blame you for that because basketball is what pays your bills. Conversely, we, the 1A football schools, have to look out for selves first, also. We could split and add Memphis and have as much or more basketball money and only split it nine (9) ways. So unless you give us away to add two from the group of Memphis, Central Florida or East Carolina, I do not see how the split can be avoided. Are you will to kick out Notre Dame to give us Memphis? Or are you will to can two schools from the group of Providence, Seton Hall, St. John's, Marquette or De Paul to give us two all sports 1A football playing members? Because, if the answer is no, we will split and go our separate ways! The split will not be because we dislike each other, but because we different goals and future agendas!
Orange Eagles Wrote:Native Georgian Wrote:CatsClaw Wrote:Then you're going to decide "why do I have to put up with this when I can get my own house and do whatever I want with it". So you save up your money and decide to move out.
Problem is, the "you" is really eight different institutions, with different agendas and priorities. Louisville and Cincinnati and West Virginia and USF want a football-first, all-sports conference, and don't much care if this conference has its "footprint" on the East Coast, or not. They also don't much care if the old basketball rivalries survive, or not. It's not that killing off those rivalries with St. John's, Seton Hall, etc., is at the top of their agenda. It's just that preserving those rivalries isn't even on the agenda, except as a footnote. UConn and Syracuse especially, but also Rutgers and Pitt to a lesser extent, are not going to go along with that, unless and until they can see their precious little BCS-checks blowing away in the wind.
So then "you" have to decide, am I going to move out of this house that pays me millions of dollars whether I'm any good or not, or do I move out and build a new house with Louisville, Cincinnati, West Virginia, and South Florida. Will that house keep treating you like royalty, or not? Better make sure beforehand...
Excellent Post! You hit the nail on the head.
Wilkie01 Wrote:Rutgers and Pittsburgh will go where ever West Virginia goes also. So with Memphis, Central Florida and East Carolina you have a nine team all-sports conference.
Considering you are a fan of a school that has been a part of this conference for less than 5 years, I don't think you really know what you're talking about. Without Syracuse and UConn, there is no conference, and though RU and Pitt will look out for themselves, I could never forsee a situation like this. I can tell you that a conference that you are describing would be laughable at best and certainly would not retain BCS status. Furthermore, I don't think ESPN would want to pay big money to a conference that takes itself out of the Northeast and does not include Syracuse and UConn. Even further I would suspect that the ACC would EASILY snap up these two schools and would bring in far more money then you're C-USA part 2 (not that it would make me happy, but it's true). You've got to grow up and look at reality and stop being so elitist about your damn school.
I know that Syracuse buts its Lax and basketball programs ahead of its football program. I assume most Cuse fans are more worried about old basketball rivalries than they are about the future of their football programs. I also think U Conn would probably want to go withe the other football schools because both sports are important at U Conn. I am not sure about Syracuse's commitment to 1A football. I have no agenda against Syracuse and I would want Cuse to side with the 1A football schools. But from Cuse fan comments, I have reservation on what Cuse might do.
Jackson1011 Wrote:Native Georgian Wrote:CatsClaw Wrote:Then you're going to decide "why do I have to put up with this when I can get my own house and do whatever I want with it". So you save up your money and decide to move out.
Problem is, the "you" is really eight different institutions, with different agendas and priorities. Louisville and Cincinnati and West Virginia and USF want a football-first, all-sports conference, and don't much care if this conference has its "footprint" on the East Coast, or not. They also don't much care if the old basketball rivalries survive, or not. It's not that killing off those rivalries with St. John's, Seton Hall, etc., is at the top of their agenda. It's just that preserving those rivalries isn't even on the agenda, except as a footnote. UConn and Syracuse especially, but also Rutgers and Pitt to a lesser extent, are not going to go along with that, unless and until they can see their precious little BCS-checks blowing away in the wind.
So then "you" have to decide, am I going to move out of this house that pays me millions of dollars whether I'm any good or not, or do I move out and build a new house with Louisville, Cincinnati, West Virginia, and South Florida. Will that house keep treating you like royalty, or not? Better make sure beforehand...
-- I'm assuming when you say "USF, UL want something", you actually mean the fan bases want something. However, if you are implying which BE schools are political allies etc, I don't think you could be further off. IMO, no two BE schools have been closer since the ACC raid then WVU and Pitt. Our two presidents and administrations met constantly during/after the raid and have been on the same page since. WVU and Rutgers have been close allies in the early 1980s/Eastern 8
-- Couldn' tell you who is for or against the split...but I am pretty sure that Pitt/WVU/Rutgers will be on the same side of the issue
Jackson
Great point Jackson. All too often, posters seem to put the views of fans bases as also being representative of the views of their program administration, which is way off.
According to an article that someone posted on this board a couple of days ago, WV and Pitt voted NOT to split from the basketball schools in 2003. But to listen to alot of fans on this board, WV wants to split from the bb schools. The same with Louisville. Those two programs, and especially WV at this point, weild alot of influence in this league. If those programs wanted to lead a split from the basketball schools, it would be naive to believe that would not have the influence or support to do so. I have never heard either of the leaders of those programs ever express such desires to split from this 16 team conglomeration. And when I say leaders, I dont mean coaches.
None of us can speak for our administrations but if you look at the current situation and what coaches are saying then its naive to say that everything is wonderful.
Our football league having only 8 members and needing 5 OCC games will continue to be a problem and will escalate. Why? because the costs keep rising to have one team play home only. many teams from MAC and SBC realize that they can hold out for better offers with most BE teams having 40-45k stadiums they cant compete with the offers those schools will get from SEC,Big10 and even ACC schools. So the scheduling will become even a bigger issue than it currently is.
Sooner or later football will have to expand and as we currently stand that is impossible.
Cubanbull Wrote:None of us can speak for our administrations but if you look at the current situation and what coaches are saying then its naive to say that everything is wonderful.
Our football league having only 8 members and needing 5 OCC games will continue to be a problem and will escalate. Why? because the costs keep rising to have one team play home only. many teams from MAC and SBC realize that they can hold out for better offers with most BE teams having 40-45k stadiums they cant compete with the offers those schools will get from SEC,Big10 and even ACC schools. So the scheduling will become even a bigger issue than it currently is.
Sooner or later football will have to expand and as we currently stand that is impossible.
Even scheduling 4 OCC games will become increasingly difficult. A ten-team league is the ticket. It creates a nine game conference schedule, and only a 3 game OCC schedule.
Wilkie01 Wrote:I know that Syracuse buts its Lax and basketball programs ahead of its football program. I assume most Cuse fans are more worried about old basketball rivalries than they are about the future of their football programs. I also think U Conn would probably want to go withe the other football schools because both sports are important at U Conn. I am not sure about Syracuse's commitment to 1A football. I have no agenda against Syracuse and I would want Cuse to side with the 1A football schools. But from Cuse fan comments, I have reservation on what Cuse might do.
I don't believe the Syracuse administration nor even the most supportive SU lacrosse fan would believe for a moment that football is not the #1 priority. It is foolish to think that Syracuse would not have football as its #1 priority either. This just proves that you fail to understand some of the other schools in your conference.
Obviously any school that has a I-A football program will put that first on the priority list. Syracuse does not differ from this. This doesn't mean that Syracuse doesn't also look out for its BBall and LAX programs. However, if the circumstance arose where the football schools were to split, Syracuse would go along because that is the logical thing to do and it would be foolish not to. The same goes for if the Big Ten came calling, Syracuse (as would any BE school) would be foolish not to jump. That scenario would certainly not be putting either its basketball nor lacrosse programs first.
I don't think any 'Cuse fan would value BBall or LAX more than football. Although right now its easier to root for the latter two. You would also be foolish to think that Syracuse is not supporting its football program. Many posters here have given you the facts as to how we are upgrading our facilities and recruiting. Syracuse will most certainly bounce back and become a strong program again. You are uninformed if you believe otherwise.