CSNbbs

I seem to missed something the last couple of days and now the thread is closed. however, wanted to respond to this that BR asked

Quote:I'm sure you're still waiting to hear someone respond to these. But why bother? If they were true, and that's a very big if, would that make the theory of evolution untrue? No, it does not follow.

as has been stated and apparently is in the movie the "theory of evolution" and "natural selection" within a species is true. The issue is with macro-evolution, and one species evolving into a completely different species, which has never been proven and Scientist in the film make the point that its impossible.



the Computer Engineers should find that clip interesting in the least.

back to the 'darwin = hitler' sidetrack briefly. apparently this is only 10 minutes of the film. I think its relevant if and only if, the teachings and theories of some of darwins work could lead to and be the source of the nazi ideology. i.e. did they act Logically on these teachings. thats separate from if the theory is true or not. Stein pointed out on Hannity and Colmes, that their was a lineal connection between the two. never the less it has sidetracked the debate and the point of the film. I think the same basic argument is at stake on if Islam is a "religion of peace" or not. i.e. are the Jihadist teaching they are acting on found in the koran or not.

I do think that what Darwin said in "The Decent of Man" is relevant to that point: ""At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilized races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace throughout the world the savage races.”


the point of the film is the scientific inquisition and freedom of inquiry, based on the facts of scientist around the world being fired over suggesting in their work the possibility of a designer who 'placed the information' in DNA, etc. vs. it just randomly and by accident coming to be.

and I think, JH, pointed out there are creationist who don't beleive in ID. which is true, I know some that beleive the Bible is the Infallible word of God and true(not fundamentalist but the infallible crowd) that take issue with ID. the Reasoning is the designer is not defined and they could see them getting the atheist to admit that it could be anything as a designer, including Aliens, and ceding the point. Which amazingly Richard Dawkins does in the film apparently. They take issue with that because they don't want any explanation other than the biblical Triune God being the 'designer'.

Quote:the Computer Engineers should find that clip interesting in the least.

Funny you should mention that. I got my degree in Computer Engineering. Go look up genetic algorithms. There's plenty of similarities in genetic algorithms that positive changes can be occur in an evolving system. But all of that is moot, really. Again, Talk Origins covers this point. The computer analogy is garbage. Biology does not work just like a top down designed program.

Quote:the point of the film is the scientific inquisition and freedom of inquiry, based on the facts of scientist around the world being fired over suggesting in their work the possibility of a designer who 'placed the information' in DNA, etc

People are free to research such thoughts. The problem is that they don't want to do the research. They want to make a bunch of arguments from ignorance and then teach it in schools. That does not make good science. To see the truth behind each person that film claimed was Expelled, try reading Expelled Exposed.

Quote:I do think that what Darwin said in "The Decent of Man" is relevant to that point: ""At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilized races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace throughout the world the savage races.”

Darwin was a man and like any other man was capable of being biased by the prejudices of his time. That doesn't make those views right. They also do not change the trueness of evolutionary theory.

Why do they keep attacking Charles Darwin when Alfred Russel Wallace was the first to propose natural selection and transmutation of species from others? Sure Darwin had a more indepth theory, but its not like it was only his idea.

GGniner Wrote:and I think, JH, pointed out there are creationist who don't beleive in ID. which is true, I know some that beleive the Bible is the Infallible word of God and true(not fundamentalist but the infallible crowd) that take issue with ID. the Reasoning is the designer is not defined and they could see them getting the atheist to admit that it could be anything as a designer, including Aliens, and ceding the point. Which amazingly Richard Dawkins does in the film apparently. They take issue with that because they don't want any explanation other than the biblical Triune God being the 'designer'.

What I pointed out is that there are many Christian scientists (scientific practicioners, not the relgious sect) who reject ID catagorically and admit that eveolution, including macro-evolution, is the only legitimate scientific explanation for life on earth as we know it. They do not reject ID because it allows for a creator other that the biblical Triune God but because they recognize ID as an intellectually bankrupt psuedo-scientific hypothesis. Regardless of their personal beliefs, they do not attempt to discredit the scientific process by postulating a much more unkowable entity to explain away current unkowns.

Dawkins did say when he was interviewed for Crossroads (the movie the producers pretended they were making to get interviews) that it was possible that life on earth was seeded by aliens. He said that this is the most plausible of the ID possibilities. His point, however, was that those aliens would have had to have evolved on whatever planet they came from. Even if we were engineered by aliens, we still would be the result of a purely mechanical evolutionary process, albiet one that happened on another planet.

Finally, there is no fundemental difference between macro & micro evolution. Macro-evolution is just micro-evolution carried out over longer time periods.