CSNbbs

The structure is starting to go up:
New Arena

sure would looked nice on the east side where it was supposed to be.

VERY few things "looked nice" on the East Side, whether they "belong there" or not.

The bottleneck that an east side arena would have created again, all by itself, made the east side a lousy choice. Add in the lack of ANYTHING else worth doing/seeing over there, at least in the near term. At least the downtown site has SOME things already happening around it.

Karl I could not have said it better myself!

BusDriver Wrote:Karl I could not have said it better myself!

What?! Even with that spiffy new MBA?! I'm stunned. Stunned, I tell ya.

Karl Wrote:VERY few things "looked nice" on the East Side, whether they "belong there" or not.

The bottleneck that an east side arena would have created again, all by itself, made the east side a lousy choice. Add in the lack of ANYTHING else worth doing/seeing over there, at least in the near term. At least the downtown site has SOME things already happening around it.

Equally important is the connection to the convention center. It was always the intention that an adjoining arena be built. It's the only way we can attract the events, shows, and conventions to be of any benefit to the city.

RocketJeff Wrote:

Karl Wrote:VERY few things "looked nice" on the East Side, whether they "belong there" or not.

The bottleneck that an east side arena would have created again, all by itself, made the east side a lousy choice. Add in the lack of ANYTHING else worth doing/seeing over there, at least in the near term. At least the downtown site has SOME things already happening around it.

Equally important is the connection to the convention center. It was always the intention that an adjoining arena be built. It's the only way we can attract the events, shows, and conventions to be of any benefit to the city.

a big arena would help too, not a 10,000 seater

sylvaniarocketfan1 Wrote:

RocketJeff Wrote:

Karl Wrote:VERY few things "looked nice" on the East Side, whether they "belong there" or not.

The bottleneck that an east side arena would have created again, all by itself, made the east side a lousy choice. Add in the lack of ANYTHING else worth doing/seeing over there, at least in the near term. At least the downtown site has SOME things already happening around it.

Equally important is the connection to the convention center. It was always the intention that an adjoining arena be built. It's the only way we can attract the events, shows, and conventions to be of any benefit to the city.

a big arena would help too, not a 10,000 seater

I agree. Too bad that opportunity was missed.

I'd love to find out what really happened with the county's decision to build at that size, knowing that Savage Hall was due to be renovated at the same relative capacity. I doubt the competition will benefit either venue.

-Dan

sylvaniarocketfan1 Wrote:

RocketJeff Wrote:

Karl Wrote:VERY few things "looked nice" on the East Side, whether they "belong there" or not.

The bottleneck that an east side arena would have created again, all by itself, made the east side a lousy choice. Add in the lack of ANYTHING else worth doing/seeing over there, at least in the near term. At least the downtown site has SOME things already happening around it.

Equally important is the connection to the convention center. It was always the intention that an adjoining arena be built. It's the only way we can attract the events, shows, and conventions to be of any benefit to the city.

a big arena would help too, not a 10,000 seater

What exactly would be done with a 20,000 seat arena in Toledo? An NBA team? Big time concerts that contractually cannot come to Toledo due to our proximity to Detroit, Cleveland, and Columbus? Or maybe those special UT games that will draw 20,000 people?

All that a "big arena" in Toledo would offer is more empty seats.

Rocket Pirate Wrote:

sylvaniarocketfan1 Wrote:

RocketJeff Wrote:

Karl Wrote:VERY few things "looked nice" on the East Side, whether they "belong there" or not.

The bottleneck that an east side arena would have created again, all by itself, made the east side a lousy choice. Add in the lack of ANYTHING else worth doing/seeing over there, at least in the near term. At least the downtown site has SOME things already happening around it.

Equally important is the connection to the convention center. It was always the intention that an adjoining arena be built. It's the only way we can attract the events, shows, and conventions to be of any benefit to the city.

a big arena would help too, not a 10,000 seater

What exactly would be done with a 20,000 seat arena in Toledo? An NBA team? Big time concerts that contractually cannot come to Toledo due to our proximity to Detroit, Cleveland, and Columbus? Or maybe those special UT games that will draw 20,000 people?

All that a "big arena" in Toledo would offer is more empty seats.

I don't think anyone said we need a 20k arena. They did the studies and determined 8-10k would be about right, but I'd like to see some NCAA regional basketball and that would require a minimum of 12k. Dayton is smaller and they're able to support a 12k AND a 13k arena. They've successfully hosted several regional NCAA tourney's. With Savage Hall being under 9k I thought 12k downtown would work. Also, if the Arena II football team catches on and we wanted to up the level of the team to Arena I, we'd need 12k. Further, I haven't given up on the idea of getting an IHL team back in this city and they too require a 12k arena. 12k would've been the magic number.

^^Agreed (w/ Pirate Rocket)! Anything more than 10,000 would be too many. There will be very few events that would need more than 10,000. Would you want a 20,000 seat arena that has 10,000+ only a few times a year, or a 10,000 seat arena that is not sold out a few times a year?

MidnightBlueGold Wrote:^^Agreed (w/ Pirate Rocket)! Anything more than 10,000 would be too many. There will be very few events that would need more than 10,000. Would you want a 20,000 seat arena that has 10,000+ only a few times a year, or a 10,000 seat arena that is not sold out a few times a year?

once again, nobody said 20000 seat. I was hoping for somewhere between 12k and 15 k, probably closer to 12k so that we could host some NCAA regionals games which would be awesome for the city. Also not sure how much is needed but I was hoping for a higher league of hockey someday. Rossford was going to get an AHL team and was hoping we'd get the same but a 10k arena I think doesn't show too much faith and is very shortsighted. How are concerts contractually not allowed to come here?

Rocket Pirate Wrote:

sylvaniarocketfan1 Wrote:

RocketJeff Wrote:

Karl Wrote:VERY few things "looked nice" on the East Side, whether they "belong there" or not.

The bottleneck that an east side arena would have created again, all by itself, made the east side a lousy choice. Add in the lack of ANYTHING else worth doing/seeing over there, at least in the near term. At least the downtown site has SOME things already happening around it.

Equally important is the connection to the convention center. It was always the intention that an adjoining arena be built. It's the only way we can attract the events, shows, and conventions to be of any benefit to the city.

a big arena would help too, not a 10,000 seater

What exactly would be done with a 20,000 seat arena in Toledo? An NBA team? Big time concerts that contractually cannot come to Toledo due to our proximity to Detroit, Cleveland, and Columbus? Or maybe those special UT games that will draw 20,000 people?

All that a "big arena" in Toledo would offer is more empty seats.

so would you rather go to a U2 concert in Detroit or a Kajagoogoo reunion concert in the new arena(think carefully about this one). who is gonna come to a 10,000 seat arena when they can go in any direction for much more, the big acts make no money playing here, maybe even a 15,000, would be a bigger draw. Just more of the Toledo underacheiving mindset IMO.

I believe the plan is to have activities going on 255 days per year and that amounts to something happening 5 days per week. I can believe the studies would say that for most of those events 10k is plenty. 20k might be difficult to justify, but 12k is managable and would give us a shot at previously mentioned activities. I'm not sure of the requirements for women's NCAA tourney's, but I think we have a shot at it with 10k and Toledo will support it.

You cannot hold NCAA regional games w/ only 12,000. Opening round, yes; anything else, no. NCAA games are held in 15-18,000+.

dayton's place is 13K and change and they get ncaa regionals. however, they have a special relationship with the ncaa, great local bball fans and an excellent facility and management.

When, recently, has Dayton had regional games? Most regionals are held in football stadiums where they can get 25-30,000+.

That's like using a computer with a Pentium III that calls for a Pentium 4. The software isn't going to work.

Why we don't use the minimum requirements to "move-up" as a baseline for seating capacity is just plain wrong.

sylvaniarocketfan1 Wrote:

Rocket Pirate Wrote:

sylvaniarocketfan1 Wrote:

RocketJeff Wrote:

Karl Wrote:VERY few things "looked nice" on the East Side, whether they "belong there" or not.

The bottleneck that an east side arena would have created again, all by itself, made the east side a lousy choice. Add in the lack of ANYTHING else worth doing/seeing over there, at least in the near term. At least the downtown site has SOME things already happening around it.

Equally important is the connection to the convention center. It was always the intention that an adjoining arena be built. It's the only way we can attract the events, shows, and conventions to be of any benefit to the city.

a big arena would help too, not a 10,000 seater

What exactly would be done with a 20,000 seat arena in Toledo? An NBA team? Big time concerts that contractually cannot come to Toledo due to our proximity to Detroit, Cleveland, and Columbus? Or maybe those special UT games that will draw 20,000 people?

All that a "big arena" in Toledo would offer is more empty seats.

so would you rather go to a U2 concert in Detroit or a Kajagoogoo reunion concert in the new arena(think carefully about this one). who is gonna come to a 10,000 seat arena when they can go in any direction for much more, the big acts make no money playing here, maybe even a 15,000, would be a bigger draw. Just more of the Toledo underacheiving mindset IMO.

Musical acts that are popular enough to play in large venues in Detroit (Palace, Pine Knob, Ford Field, Comerica), Cleveland (Quicken Loans, Blossom, Tower City), and Columbus (Polaris, Nationwide, Value City) will have trouble breaking contracts to play in a place so close geographically like Toledo. That was a big hurdle the amphitheater in Rossford would have had to overcome if it was ever completed.

Shrakkrocket Wrote:

MidnightBlueGold Wrote:^^Agreed (w/ Pirate Rocket)! Anything more than 10,000 would be too many. There will be very few events that would need more than 10,000. Would you want a 20,000 seat arena that has 10,000+ only a few times a year, or a 10,000 seat arena that is not sold out a few times a year?

once again, nobody said 20000 seat. I was hoping for somewhere between 12k and 15 k, probably closer to 12k so that we could host some NCAA regionals games which would be awesome for the city. Also not sure how much is needed but I was hoping for a higher league of hockey someday. Rossford was going to get an AHL team and was hoping we'd get the same but a 10k arena I think doesn't show too much faith and is very shortsighted. How are concerts contractually not allowed to come here?

The only non-NBA or non-NFL facility to host a regional this year or at any point in the scheduled future is the Carrier Dome in Syracuse, and they can hold 33,000 for basketball. Even 12,000 would be on the low end for first/second round games.

If the Mud Hens were AA instead of AAA, would people seriously not go to games at 5/3 Field? The Mud Hens have done a lot of market research studies while 5/3 Field has been open and the percentage of people who go to a game and leave the game without knowing who the opponent was or who won the game is astonishing. Minor league sports is all about marketing.

A lot of concert promoters do not allow acts to play in very large venues close to one another because the shows will not maximize profits. Once an artist's shows start drawing fans from other shows, the promoter and the artist do not maximize the potential profit. It's either have a show in Toledo and not in both Detroit and Cleveland, or have shows in Detroit and Cleveland and count on Toledoans to continue to travel to those cities for the shows.