CSNbbs

is warming up... With TCU meeting with Buzz Peterson and Scott Sutton.
Here is a link;
http://www.star-telegram.com/college_spo...46914.html

IMO, TCU is making a very good hire is Kent State's Jim Christian...
Here is a couple links;

(You got love the Kent St fan comment at the bottom)
[url=http://]http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/10745070/rss

Much better link from TCU's website;
http://gofrogs.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/...08aac.html

ESPN did a pretty good story on the hire;
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3319433

I really find the "Lateral Move" chatter funny...
Comparing the two programs, you can be the judge:

Conferences RPI Ranking:
MAC- #12, 2006-07- #15; 2 year Average 13.5
MWC- #9, 2006-07- #8; 2 year Average 8.5
MWC- 2 year Average +5.0

Average RPI Rankings for Seasons of 2006-07 and 2007-08:
ACC- 2006-07 .5818, 2007-08 .5731; Average .57745
MWC- 2006-07 .5516, 2007-08 .5262; Average .5389: .03855 away from the ACC
MAC- 2006-07 .4932, 2007-08 .4972; Average .4952: .0437 away from the MWC

So the MWC has been closer to the ACC the last 2 years than the MAC has been to the MWC...


Sports Budget:
Kent St- $17,487,695
TCU- $39,191,874
TCU- +$21,704,179, 124.1% more

Mens Basketball Expenses:
Kent St- $1,333,301
TCU- $3,590,513
TCU- +$2,257,212, 169.3% more

Average Salary for Mens Head Coaches:
Kent St (6)- $104,029
TCU (7)- $265,304
TCU- +$161,275, 155.0% more

Average Salary for Mens Assistant Coaches:
Kent St- $30,533
TCU- $63,634
TCU- +$33,101, 108.4% more

Average Salary for Womens Head Coaches:
Kent St (8)- $64,026
TCU (9)- $88,649
TCU- +$24,623, 38.5% more

Average Salary for Womens Assistant Coaches:
Kent St- $24,036
TCU- $37,965
TCU- +$13,929, 58.0% more

Numbers came from this website;
http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/search.asp

There is no doubt that the money and conference is a better fit for Christian. He will be paid much better than he was at Kent State as well as deal with better facilities. He will also be able to make it to the NCAA Tournament much easier as the MAC is a on-bid conference and the MWC can get two, three and sometimes even four bids.

Where the lateral move talk comes in is TCU is not exactly a team the Christian can step in and win with. Sure Christian has done a great job at Kent State having twenty win season in all six seasons, but he has never won a tournament game and never built a program. Christian stepped into a MAC program at its pinnacle (the year after the 2002 run) and simply maintained it. Regardless of what TCU thinks.

Christian's teams are are usually always win now teams that are loaded with JUCOS that are inserted and not developed. outside of JUCOS, his recruiting is spotty at best.

It is the opinion of many around Kent State that it would have been much smarter for him to step into a program that can promote itself and Christian could once again maintain instead of build on his own.

It will be interesting to see if he can actually build a program, especially in an area that is sifted through by Kansas, Texas, Texas Tech, Texas A &M, Baylor and any other school fomr that area who has a better reputation first.

While you are correct, financially the MWC is a nice fit, but Christian doesn't seem like a good fit for TCU.

I think Christian looks at this like an oportunity to get into the NCAA tourney quicker to repair his tournament record. He will then jump to a better university. TCU just seems like an odd choice to get a quick Tourney win.

jfort88 Wrote:There is no doubt that the money and conference is a better fit for Christian. He will be paid much better than he was at Kent State as well as deal with better facilities. He will also be able to make it to the NCAA Tournament much easier as the MAC is a on-bid conference and the MWC can get two, three and sometimes even four bids.

Where the lateral move talk comes in is TCU is not exactly a team the Christian can step in and win with. Sure Christian has done a great job at Kent State having twenty win season in all six seasons, but he has never won a tournament game and never built a program. Christian stepped into a MAC program at its pinnacle (the year after the 2002 run) and simply maintained it. Regardless of what TCU thinks.

Christian's teams are are usually always win now teams that are loaded with JUCOS that are inserted and not developed. outside of JUCOS, his recruiting is spotty at best.

It is the opinion of many around Kent State that it would have been much smarter for him to step into a program that can promote itself and Christian could once again maintain instead of build on his own.

It will be interesting to see if he can actually build a program, especially in an area that is sifted through by Kansas, Texas, Texas Tech, Texas A &M, Baylor and any other school fomr that area who has a better reputation first.

While you are correct, financially the MWC is a nice fit, but Christian doesn't seem like a good fit for TCU.

I think Christian looks at this like an oportunity to get into the NCAA tourney quicker to repair his tournament record. He will then jump to a better university. TCU just seems like an odd choice to get a quick Tourney win.

First off thanks for posting... I have been trying to make at least 2 good posts a day and sure is easier when you can respond to another poster....
IMO, TCU is looking at him to take them to the NCAA right away, they currently would just like to finish a couple years in a row with a winning record, since Neil Dougherty brought them 1 in the last 6 years as their Head Coach and then followed that season up by going 6-25 the following season.
Neil Dougherty has slowly killed TCU's attendance;
Couldn't find TCU attendance numbers for his 1st season of 2002-03
2003-04; Record 12-17, 7-9... 17 games, 78,599, average of 4,623
2004-05; Record 21-14, 8-8... 17 games, 73,849, average of 4,344
2005-06; Record 6-25, 2-14... 16 games, 60,745, average of 3,797
2006-07; Record 13-17, 4-12... 17 games, 63,448, average of 3,732
2007-08; Record 14-16, 6-10... 17 games, 60,000, average of 3,529

That starts adding up really fast, TCU's basketball tickets average over $30 a seat... So if you take 18,599 x $30 = $557,970 in a difference in revenue between the 2003-04 season and the 2007-08 season. That's not taking into account parking fees or food sold and ect... NCAA and NIT bids would be a bonus at this point for TCU...
Coach Christian should had a good core to start his tenure with since TCU returns their top 2 scorers, 3 starters, and 2 other players that were part-time starters:
Returning player for TCU
Kevin Langford 6’8” 245, F; Started 30 of 30 games, 13.3 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 40 A
Henry Salter 6’4” 215, G; Started 24 of 24 games, 13.3 PPG, 5.0 RPG, 14 A
John Ortiz 6’8” 225, F; Started 24 of 24 games, 5.2 PPG, 5.1 RPG, 8 A
Keion Mitchem 6’ 159, G; Started 1 of 29 games, 4.7 PPG, 1.3 RPG, 15 A
Jason Ebie 6’1” 175, G; Started 14 of 30 games, 4.7 PPG, 2.4 RPG, 84 A
Mike Scott 6’ 175, G; Started 15 of 29 games, 3.3 PPG, 1.0 RPG, 62 A
Luke Tauscher 6’11” 220, F/C; Started 0 of 26 games, 1.8 PPG, 3.0 RPG, 7 A
Martiese Morones 6’ 165, G; Started 0 of 24 games, 1.3 PPG, 0.9 RPG, 19 A

:badger:

72Tiger Wrote::badger:

I see you one upped my dancing Banana, with your dancing badger...

E-zone Wrote:

jfort88 Wrote:There is no doubt that the money and conference is a better fit for Christian. He will be paid much better than he was at Kent State as well as deal with better facilities. He will also be able to make it to the NCAA Tournament much easier as the MAC is a on-bid conference and the MWC can get two, three and sometimes even four bids.

Where the lateral move talk comes in is TCU is not exactly a team the Christian can step in and win with. Sure Christian has done a great job at Kent State having twenty win season in all six seasons, but he has never won a tournament game and never built a program. Christian stepped into a MAC program at its pinnacle (the year after the 2002 run) and simply maintained it. Regardless of what TCU thinks.

Christian's teams are are usually always win now teams that are loaded with JUCOS that are inserted and not developed. outside of JUCOS, his recruiting is spotty at best.

It is the opinion of many around Kent State that it would have been much smarter for him to step into a program that can promote itself and Christian could once again maintain instead of build on his own.

It will be interesting to see if he can actually build a program, especially in an area that is sifted through by Kansas, Texas, Texas Tech, Texas A &M, Baylor and any other school fomr that area who has a better reputation first.

While you are correct, financially the MWC is a nice fit, but Christian doesn't seem like a good fit for TCU.

I think Christian looks at this like an oportunity to get into the NCAA tourney quicker to repair his tournament record. He will then jump to a better university. TCU just seems like an odd choice to get a quick Tourney win.

That starts adding up really fast, TCU's basketball tickets average over $30 a seat... So if you take 18,599 x $30 = $557,970 in a difference in revenue between the 2003-04 season and the 2007-08 season. That's not taking into account parking fees or food sold and ect...

TCUs average basketball tickets are not over $30 a seat. More like $15 a seat, but your logic is still sound because that is still a significant loss in revenue. I think a lot of fans will start comming back with a new coach, I know many who left simply because they could not stand to watch coach Dougherty.

Here is to an improvement in TCU basketball

tcufrog86 Wrote:

E-zone Wrote:

jfort88 Wrote:There is no doubt that the money and conference is a better fit for Christian. He will be paid much better than he was at Kent State as well as deal with better facilities. He will also be able to make it to the NCAA Tournament much easier as the MAC is a on-bid conference and the MWC can get two, three and sometimes even four bids.

Where the lateral move talk comes in is TCU is not exactly a team the Christian can step in and win with. Sure Christian has done a great job at Kent State having twenty win season in all six seasons, but he has never won a tournament game and never built a program. Christian stepped into a MAC program at its pinnacle (the year after the 2002 run) and simply maintained it. Regardless of what TCU thinks.

Christian's teams are are usually always win now teams that are loaded with JUCOS that are inserted and not developed. outside of JUCOS, his recruiting is spotty at best.

It is the opinion of many around Kent State that it would have been much smarter for him to step into a program that can promote itself and Christian could once again maintain instead of build on his own.

It will be interesting to see if he can actually build a program, especially in an area that is sifted through by Kansas, Texas, Texas Tech, Texas A &M, Baylor and any other school fomr that area who has a better reputation first.

While you are correct, financially the MWC is a nice fit, but Christian doesn't seem like a good fit for TCU.

I think Christian looks at this like an oportunity to get into the NCAA tourney quicker to repair his tournament record. He will then jump to a better university. TCU just seems like an odd choice to get a quick Tourney win.

That starts adding up really fast, TCU's basketball tickets average over $30 a seat... So if you take 18,599 x $30 = $557,970 in a difference in revenue between the 2003-04 season and the 2007-08 season. That's not taking into account parking fees or food sold and ect...

TCUs average basketball tickets are not over $30 a seat. More like $15 a seat, but your logic is still sound because that is still a significant loss in revenue. I think a lot of fans will start comming back with a new coach, I know many who left simply because they could not stand to watch coach Dougherty.

Here is to an improvement in TCU basketball

Wasn't sure what ticket prices were at TCU; Here is how I figured the tickets were around $30;
TCU Mens basketball revenue was $3,590,513 / 63,448 fans attendance for 2006-07 = $56.59. Taking into account food sold, better seats cost more, parking, and ect... I thought around $30 seemed like a good number to start with.
But even using $15 per ticket...
2004-05 made $4,185 less per game from ticket sales than 2003-04
$4,185 x 17 games = $71,145
2005-06 made $12,390 less per game from ticket sales than 2003-04
$12,390 x 16 games = $198,240
2006-07 made $13,365 less per game from ticket sales than 2003-04
$13,365 x 17 games = $227,205
2007-08 made $16,410 less per game from ticket sales than 2003-04
$16,410 x 17 games = $278,970
Over the last 4 years that adds up to be $775,560 for not averaging the same attendance as the 2003-04 season.