Headline on Mlive reads
Quote:Bruce Shields | Ann Arbor News
Rodriguez happy to replace 'a legend'
In his introductory press conference, new Michigan football coach Rich Rodriguez praises Lloyd Carr. He tells the crowd that the opportunity to replace the "legend" was too good to pass up, despite his success at West Virginia
Lloyd was no more than a caretaker of a perpetual Top 15 Team. Bo took a program in the toilet, won some unlikely games, and made himself a legend. For the most part he never won the big one either.
But Lloyd a legend? Maybe in his own mind.
In their minds maybe, but why do I think the same people calling him a legend were the same ones screaming 'Fire Lloyd' this last year?
He did win a national championship and a few big 10 titles.....
Why were they so anxious to get rid of him if he was such a legend?
For the same reasons that other legends, like Joe Paterno and Bobby Bowden, have people screaming for their heads. Albeit Carr isn't on the same level as Paterno and Bowden, but fans are fickle. You know, "what have you done for me lately?" As far as Schembechler never having won the "big one", it depends on what constitutes a "big one". Usually when this is spoken it's not meant as a compliment. He never won a national championship and I suppose that's a "big one". At one point in the seventies he had teams that went 31-2-1 and didn't get any national championship opportunities because the Big Ten, at that time, was only allowed to participate in the Rose Bowl......and you couldn't go to the Rose Bowl two years in a row. His 1973 team went 10-0-1 and didn't get into the Rose Bowl bid because of the final game tie with Ohio State. Thus, no national championship. I guess Bo isn't a legend after all and a guy like Duffy Daughtery, who left putting MSU on probation, is because he won a National Championship even though the sportswriters votes were tabulated BEFORE bowl games. Would you rather leave a stain on your school with a national championship trophy in tow or run an honest program without one? Go figure.
I think UM football didn't get caught, not that they were squeaky clean. Was is Duffy or Rogers that left MSU on probation?
Duffy was involved with a slush fund for players that was run on campus for many years. Stolz and Burt Smith (then AD) were involved in recruiting violations, and then again MSU was put on probabtion for changing athletes grades in 1995. That's three times. All are documentable on the internet.
BO's bowl record hurt is reputation. I am not sure if he ever won one or not. I am certain he never won in Pasadena. He did get screwed on a Charlie White fumble that was ruled a touchdown. The local sports guys (in LA) must have shown that replay a 1000 times and it was clearly a fumble. (LA sports guys are not the homers like Detorit) Of course that was way before video review.
Bronco74, Bo's Rose Bowl wins include Washington in 1980 23-6 and USC in 1988 22-14. Both games were played in Pasadena, of course.
^
Both meaningless in the national picture. He never won when it mattered. Backed into second one year by beating Nebraska and having a slew of teams ahead in the polls lose on New Years. Why does a discussion about Lloyd turn into a discussion about Duffy, I remember the old history lessons now about the slush fund, I still maintain that the scUM football program didn't get caught, while the hoops program did.
Of course, I could be wrong, Anthony Carter probably did want to play for a team notorious for not throwing because he wanted to experience winter for the first time in his life.
...........and Bush knew about the World Trade Center attack before it happened. C'mon DB, pretty tough casting stones off the top of your head without any kind of evidence. Bo recruited one of my athletes, Jim Scarcelli and Mo and Lloyd recruited another, Jon Jansen. I am a die hard Bronco first and foremost but my first hand dealing with Schembechler and associates was first class and above board. Tell me about your relationship with them.
I've had dealings with them both, out of the college football scene. Bo when he was 'el presidente' of the Tigers, we pitched the Domino's (and therefore the Tigers) account and that included meeting with he and his men regarding their advertising vision, they had none. Knew Moeller before AND after he got the boot, he frequented that Excalibur place quite often, a place I liked to go with clients as well, and it wasn't the first time I saw him in that shape. But we digress....
Lloyd is a legend, for all you scUM fans. I suggest you set higher goals for your legends going forward.
Maybe I misspoke myself and alluded to the fact that I was a scUM fan. I am no more a fan of theirs than any other school (with the possible exception of Grand Valley). I'm a Western grad and brown and gold through and through first. Bo certainly was out of his element in the business world. You've attested to that and Bo himself in his later years admitted the same. Moeller enjoyed the sauce and paid the price. Lloyd is not a legend and never will be. However, my experience with them on the athletic recruiting side, not business, was positive. And because M basketball was caught cheating doesn't equate into football cheating. Should I believe that Izzo cheats because the football side has been penalized three times by the NCAA for violations? I think not. There were athletes that passed classes that I was enrolled in at WMU that I NEVER saw attend one class. Does that mean that every program at WMU has professors that plays favorites? I think not. You can go down the line of coaches that cheated, like Lou Holtz, and won national championships. I, for one, put Schembechlers "wins that didn't matter on the national stage" far ahead of the Jimmy Johnsons, Osbornes and Ericsons of the world.
Lloyd Car comitted the greatest football sin in my book because his teams were BORING. He totally minimized the passion of Michigan football by never appealing to the fans. Would it hurt to run a flea flicker, statue, or tripple reverse once a game? What else was there to like? It surely wasn't the under achieving.
Kids go to the game and fall in love with Michigan football because of the 100,000 fans. I can't see an eight year old turning to his dad and going, "I can't wait to punt on 4th and inches like Michigan does!....I love those hand-offs!...look at how fundamentally sound that 3 step drop was!"
Right on the money. Carr was a Bo clone and didn't change with the game. We'll see what Coach Rod can do.
Quote:We'll see what Coach Rod can do.
Who gives a chit? Whatever he does at UM you can bet that:
1. The Whinerines will still command the best press in Michigan.
2. The superlatives will still be tossed their way.
3. The bandwagon fans will still hop onboard.
Quote:There were athletes that passed classes that I was enrolled in at WMU that I NEVER saw attend one class.
I passed a couple of classes without attending, called the prof one time to get a feeling for where we were, he said, "well, you missed an exam a week ago".
And I saw football players push away from a mid-term on Friday to catch the bus for a Saturday game, no deferrals or preferential treatment. Not many people at a D1A school can say that.
Quote:Who gives a chit? Whatever he does at UM you can bet that:
1. The Whinerines will still command the best press in Michigan.
2. The superlatives will still be tossed their way.
3. The bandwagon fans will still hop onboard.
You've got that right. FWIW, most of the times, it's not the coaches cheating directly, you know better, it's always the car dealers.