If the MAC somehow wound up with an odd number of full members, would the conference be willing to take Chicago State (independent)?
For example, let's say Buffalo leaves and Temple fails to join for all sports. No one from the Horizon, Summit, or Missouri Valley is willing to join the MAC as well:
West - Ball State, WMU, CMU, EMU, NIU, Chicago State
East - Miami, Ohio, Kent, Akron, Toledo, Bowling Green
The Cougars would participate in 14 conference sports (M + W Basketball, M + W Cross Country, M + W Indoor and Outdoor Track, M + W Tennis, M + W Golf, Baseball, and W Volleyball).
Chicago State is about an hour down I-88 from Northern Illinois in DeKalb, but would by far be the smallest school in the conference at roughly 7,000 students.
Chicago State used to be in a conference and they went independent on their own. I'm sure Chicago State would love to join but the MAC would never add them.
The NCAA currently has a moratorium on new I-A teams.
chicago state? that would not be a smart move
Okie Chippewa Wrote:The NCAA currently has a moratorium on new I-A teams.
Chicago State doesn't play football. He's talking about playing in the MAC for all other sports.
Not even factoring in academic fit, type of university, etc., if they were a perennial top 75 RPI basketball program, maybe, but if they had that kind of commitment to basketball they wouldn't be independent now.
Quick check of their hoops history. As far back as I went--early 90's--their best season was 206 RPI with an average closer to 300 than 200. A very unsuccessful tenure in the Summit nee Mid-Con. That was the only conference around which made any geographic sense. There are just not any other Midwest conferences they would be a fit in. MVC, Horizon, and MAC are way over their heads.
Any details on why they left the Mid-Con? Seems crazy if they want to get right back into a conference.
The quasi-official explanation the Chicago State president gave for leaving the former Mid-Con was that they wanted to seek out a conference that fit their urban profile better. Apparently cities like Detroit (Oakland), Indianapolis (IUPUI), Kansas City (UMKC), Tulsa (Oral Roberts), and Shreveport (Centenary) are not urban enough for the Chicago State president.
The truth of the matter is that Chicago State has mismanaged its athletic department for years. Former Mid-Con Commissioner Jon Steinbrecher always stood by them and talked about their vast potential. In a decade of Mid-Con membership, though, the Cougars only came close to unlocking that potential in the one season when they were basketball runners-up.
The reality is more likely that the new Mid-Con administration probably got fed up with the issues which always seem to bubble up at Chicago State and, behind the scenes, set up the situation so that they had no choice but to leave. At least it was nice of them to allow Chicago State to save face in public by claiming they were looking to seek a more urban fit.
Krocker Krapp Wrote:The quasi-official explanation the Chicago State president gave for leaving the former Mid-Con was that they wanted to seek out a conference that fit their urban profile better. Apparently cities like Detroit (Oakland), Indianapolis (IUPUI), Kansas City (UMKC), Tulsa (Oral Roberts), and Shreveport (Centenary) are not urban enough for the Chicago State president.
The truth of the matter is that Chicago State has mismanaged its athletic department for years. Former Mid-Con Commissioner Jon Steinbrecher always stood by them and talked about their vast potential. In a decade of Mid-Con membership, though, the Cougars only came close to unlocking that potential in the one season when they were basketball runners-up.
The reality is more likely that the new Mid-Con administration probably got fed up with the issues which always seem to bubble up at Chicago State and, behind the scenes, set up the situation so that they had no choice but to leave. At least it was nice of them to allow Chicago State to save face in public by claiming they were looking to seek a more urban fit.
Well, that settles it. I guess the Big East invitation is probably already on its way. seems like exactly the fit they are looking for.
Krocker Krapp Wrote:The quasi-official explanation the Chicago State president gave for leaving the former Mid-Con was that they wanted to seek out a conference that fit their urban profile better. Apparently cities like Detroit (Oakland), Indianapolis (IUPUI), Kansas City (UMKC), Tulsa (Oral Roberts), and Shreveport (Centenary) are not urban enough for the Chicago State president.
The truth of the matter is that Chicago State has mismanaged its athletic department for years. Former Mid-Con Commissioner Jon Steinbrecher always stood by them and talked about their vast potential. In a decade of Mid-Con membership, though, the Cougars only came close to unlocking that potential in the one season when they were basketball runners-up.
Chicago State's athletic department is not only underfunded but, as you say, has been badly managed. Also, their women's basketball program has been in trouble with the NCAA twice in recent years.
Quote:The reality is more likely that the new Mid-Con administration probably got fed up with the issues which always seem to bubble up at Chicago State and, behind the scenes, set up the situation so that they had no choice but to leave. At least it was nice of them to allow Chicago State to save face in public by claiming they were looking to seek a more urban fit.
It was nice of the Mid-Con. Word around the league was that they were going to be booted. Even with the potential of bringing some media interest in a major market they were not competitive enough and the potential for embarrassing the conference was too high.
Even with football, that program would have to clean up and prove itself over a several year period before the MAC should even consider adding them.
chargeradio Wrote:If the MAC somehow wound up with an odd number of full members, would the conference be willing to take Chicago State (independent)?
No.
Schadenfreude Wrote:chargeradio Wrote:If the MAC somehow wound up with an odd number of full members, would the conference be willing to take Chicago State (independent)?
No.
I'll second that. No! NO!!!!!!
axeme Wrote:Well, that settles it. I guess the Big East invitation is probably already on its way. seems like exactly the fit they are looking for.
LOL. The Big East is not urban enough for Chicago State since they would complain about taking rural road trips to Syracuse and West Virginia. LOL.
Chicago State is a mostly black college if I'm correct. They have struggled and are a small school. They have a shady reputation with the NCAA. I'm thinking the MAC would want an all sports member or a program with a greater tradition. Butler once was a member of the MAC. They would have been a good team to have around all these years.
Don't bring up Butler... Mollautt will eat your soul.
OUBOBCATJOHN Wrote:Chicago State is a mostly black college if I'm correct. They have struggled and are a small school. They have a shady reputation with the NCAA. I'm thinking the MAC would want an all sports member or a program with a greater tradition. Butler once was a member of the MAC. They would have been a good team to have around all these years.
If you want to use the politically correct phrase, OUBJ, then Chicago State is a Historically Black College & University (HBCU). This is the term applied to these schools in higher education circles. Chicago State, as far as I recall, is the only HBCU north of the Mason-Dixon Line and located in the Midwest.
The vast majority of these schools are located in the South and can mostly be found playing sports in the MEAC and SWAC for Division I or the CIAA and SIAC for Division II. A couple more participate in Division III and the NAIA as well. Chicago State, unfortunately, are Cougars out of water so to speak.
Krocker,
you're right about the term HBCU. but there are two HBCU's in Ohio - Central State University and Wilberforce University. They are located practically next to each other in southwestern Ohio near the Springfield-Dayton area. just an fyi! :-)
Krocker Krapp Wrote:OUBOBCATJOHN Wrote:Chicago State is a mostly black college if I'm correct. They have struggled and are a small school. They have a shady reputation with the NCAA. I'm thinking the MAC would want an all sports member or a program with a greater tradition. Butler once was a member of the MAC. They would have been a good team to have around all these years.
If you want to use the politically correct phrase, OUBJ, then Chicago State is a Historically Black College & University (HBCU). This is the term applied to these schools in higher education circles. Chicago State, as far as I recall, is the only HBCU north of the Mason-Dixon Line and located in the Midwest.
The vast majority of these schools are located in the South and can mostly be found playing sports in the MEAC and SWAC for Division I or the CIAA and SIAC for Division II. A couple more participate in Division III and the NAIA as well. Chicago State, unfortunately, are Cougars out of water so to speak.
No, that is wrong. Chicago State is NOT an Historical Black College & University, in fact, there are no HBCUs within the State of Illinois. HBCU is a legal definition for SPECIFIC black colleges and universities that are so designated. There are 114 such designated institutions. And NO the MAC would NEVER accept Chicago State as a member.
bobcat_backer Wrote:Krocker,
you're right about the term HBCU. but there are two HBCU's in Ohio - Central State University and Wilberforce University. They are located practically next to each other in southwestern Ohio near the Springfield-Dayton area. just an fyi! :-)
Oh snap. I can't believe I forgot about those two schools. Just goes to show how out of sight they are to much of the rest of the country, I guess, but as long as they are educating youth, and turning out bright minds, both are okay with me.
It actually helps illustrate Chicago State's problem, though, as they are not in a traditional HBCU setting and not in a location that can get them into a traditional HBCU athletic conference. People tend to overlook them in discussions like this.
HuskieDave Wrote:Krocker Krapp Wrote:OUBOBCATJOHN Wrote:Chicago State is a mostly black college if I'm correct. They have struggled and are a small school. They have a shady reputation with the NCAA. I'm thinking the MAC would want an all sports member or a program with a greater tradition. Butler once was a member of the MAC. They would have been a good team to have around all these years.
If you want to use the politically correct phrase, OUBJ, then Chicago State is a Historically Black College & University (HBCU). This is the term applied to these schools in higher education circles. Chicago State, as far as I recall, is the only HBCU north of the Mason-Dixon Line and located in the Midwest.
The vast majority of these schools are located in the South and can mostly be found playing sports in the MEAC and SWAC for Division I or the CIAA and SIAC for Division II. A couple more participate in Division III and the NAIA as well. Chicago State, unfortunately, are Cougars out of water so to speak.
No, that is wrong. Chicago State is NOT an Historical Black College & University, in fact, there are no HBCUs within the State of Illinois. HBCU is a legal definition for SPECIFIC black colleges and universities that are so designated. There are 114 such designated institutions. And NO the MAC would NEVER accept Chicago State as a member.
Fine then. Chicago State is not a HBCU by some legal definition of the term with which you are apparently familiar. So call it a "mostly Black college" if that is what you prefer. Many people will continue to refer to Chicago State a HBCU however.
These websites -
Black Refer,
College Profiles,
Education Planner,
HBCU Circle,
HBCU Network,
National Network of Libraries of Medicine,
Superior Sports Network, and
Univ-Source - are just a few among hundreds listing Chicago State as a HBCU.
If Chicago State wanted to be in a conference of Historically/Predominantly Black institutions, they would need some major changes to the SWAC:
"SWAC" North:
Chicago State (no foootball)
Harris-Stowe State (no football; upgrade from NAIA)
Kentucky State (upgrade from Division II)
Tennessee State
Arkansas-Pine Bluff
Mississippi Valley State
"SWAC" South:
Alcorn State
Jackson State
Alabama A&M
Alabama State
Grambling
Southern-Baton Rouge
This would give the "SWAC" a pair of Midwestern members located in Chicago and Saint Louis. In this model, Texas Southern and Prairie View A&M are left for the Southland. Alternatively, the conference could go to 16 by keeping the Texas Schools and adding Florida A&M (MEAC) and Lincoln University (Jefferson City, MO):
Quadrant 1 - Chicago State, Kentucky State, Harris-Stowe State, Lincoln
Quadrant 2 - Texas Southern, Prairie View A&M, Grambling, Southern-Baton Rouge
Quadrant 3 - Arkansas-Pine Bluff, Mississippi Valley State, Alcorn State, Jackson State
Quadrant 4 - Tennessee State, Alabama A&M, Alabama State, Florida A&M
Chicago State serves its role very well -- to provide a reasonably-priced engine for upward social mobility for residents of the city, particularly those in the surrounding neighborhoods of the campus down at 95th and King. The campus, library and academic facilites are all actually quite nice. The university doesn't pretend to be Northwestern or U of I. -- that's not who they are. I've had many co-workers over the years who have received a quality education at CSU that they wouldn't have been able to afford to get elsewhere.
All that said, they have absolutely no business wasting resources trying to field Division I athletics, and I sure as hell hope the question in the subject line was sarcasm.... yeah, let's pick up a school that was about to be booted out of the Mid-Con that doesn't even field a football team.
