CSNbbs

Personally, for years, I've always written off Army as a potential member of the MAC.

They got the heck out of Conference USA, which didn't go so well for them, and it's clear they like playing somewhat of a national schedule.

But the more I think about it, the more I think the MAC might be closer to being able to make Army a worthwhile offer than we tend to think. And it comes down to how we feel about continuing to use divisional records to determine division champions.

Again, Army's concern about membership in any conference has been what they give up in playing eight conference games -- which, up until a couple years ago, only would have left them three other games to schedule (and two of those were against the other service academies).

It doesn't have to be that way, though.

What if we offered Army football affiliation in our east division, with the understanding that they would not have to play any crossover games, and that divisional records would still be used to determine division champions?

The upsides for the MAC: Army is now a member of the MAC, which becomes a conference of God and country, mom and apple pie (and Chevrolet. We've always been the conference of Chevrolet, of course). Eastern teams get to host Army every other year.

The upside for Army: They still get quite a bit of scheduling flexibility (they have three MAC schools on their schedule this year -- Temple, Akron and Central Michigan -- so three more games wouldn't be that big a change for them, really). Also, they'd get a chance to compete for a conference title in a league that, with a little improvement, they can compete in.

The downsides:

-- We stick with divisional records determining division champions. This doesn't bother me, but I don't know how strongly most fans and most ADs feel about it.
-- Two West Division schools would lose a crossover game every three years and have a hole to fill in their home schedule every six years. That's a burden.
-- Worse, West Division schools would bear that burden without playing Army.
-- Opportunity cost. If we harbor hopes of trying to bring Temple basketball into the conference, adding Army doesn't further that cause at all.

Incidentally, Bowling Green would bear the worst of this, as they'd probably be moved back over to the West Division. Generally speaking, we'd rather be in the East.

I think Army just might take a deal like this.

Would it be worth it?

Do we really want *more* conditional memberships in the MAC?

We're in a bad spot now with an odd number of football members. Nobody likes the current situation but the options aren't that great either. Like it or not, the conference is not in the position to attract an impact team so we either kick someone out or pick up a 'project.'

If we take a project, I would rather they come in wholeheartedly.

-Dan

Add 3, Army, Navy (East dive) and W. Kentucky (West). Western helps basketball, and gives incentive for Temple to bring BB. Army Navy has playoff and bowl implication every year, ups the profile of the conference considerably, they ony have to play eastern Div teams which leaves them each with 5 additional OOC games (for all their traditional rivals). Mom and apple pie factor...

BE is managing a 16 team conference, so it can be done. Cross-over games can be optional (preserve and build in conference rivalries...

East coast markets solidified....

Plan it all for 2010...

If we would do that and say only divisional games count, then there is no sense in playing any crossover games for any teams. It wouldn't be fair to West teams to never get to play Army. And if only divisional games are going to count for everyone, it would lead to an eventual split of the MAC into two conferences.

IMO, bad idea for the MAC if it wants to stay as a whole.

I still fee that 12 teams is the best for the MAC and it will be back to 12 at some point. There is a school in the MAC, like I have said before, that is very close to going away. And if that doesn't happen I feel that Temple will be gone someday as well.

FishPro123 Wrote:Add 3, Army, Navy (East dive) and W. Kentucky (West). Western helps basketball, and gives incentive for Temple to bring BB. Army Navy has playoff and bowl implication every year, ups the profile of the conference considerably, they ony have to play eastern Div teams which leaves them each with 5 additional OOC games (for all their traditional rivals). Mom and apple pie factor...

BE is managing a 16 team conference, so it can be done. Cross-over games can be optional (preserve and build in conference rivalries...

East coast markets solidified....

Plan it all for 2010...

Those would be solid teams, but would be best as two conferences instead of one.

rocketfootball Wrote:There is a school in the MAC, like I have said before, that is very close to going away.

Is it located near a water tower in the shape of a giant *****?

Give us a clue, man. :ncaabbs:

Schadenfreude Wrote:

rocketfootball Wrote:There is a school in the MAC, like I have said before, that is very close to going away.

Is it located near a water tower in the shape of a giant *****?

Does that really narrow it down any???

I do not believe that the MAC will take in any more non all sports members. The thing that makes the strong conferences stable is the commonality of total school missions and all sport participations. When a school brings only one sport, it is an indication that that school does not really identify STRONGLY with its fellow members. That experiment is over for the MAC.

GFlash68 Wrote:That experiment is over for the MAC.

That's what people said about UCF, and then entered Temple. I am not convinced that the MAC has a clue about what they want to do and anything can happen.

rocketfootball Wrote:

Schadenfreude Wrote:

rocketfootball Wrote:There is a school in the MAC, like I have said before, that is very close to going away.

Is it located near a water tower in the shape of a giant *****?

Does that really narrow it down any???

Quite, actually.

Where do you think they are going, the NFL?

EMU is a good fit for the Gateway and the Horizon League. Honestly, if Kent's attendance doesn't improve, they may not be far behind... However, it would be the A-10/MVC and Gateway.

I've heard nothing to make me think that EMU has any interest in dropping to I-AA (or should I say FCS) in football.

For the 4,348,876th time....EMU is not leaving the MAC. Why does every friggin' expansion thread come back to this?

rocketfootball Wrote:I've heard nothing to make me think that EMU has any interest in dropping to I-AA (or should I say FCS) in football.

So what have you heard?

Schadenfreude Wrote:

rocketfootball Wrote:I've heard nothing to make me think that EMU has any interest in dropping to I-AA (or should I say FCS) in football.

So what have you heard?

Check your pm's

"If we would do that and say only divisional games count, then there is no sense in playing any crossover games for any teams. It wouldn't be fair to West teams to never get to play Army. And if only divisional games are going to count for everyone, it would lead to an eventual split of the MAC into two conferences.

IMO, bad idea for the MAC if it wants to stay as a whole.

I still fee that 12 teams is the best for the MAC and it will be back to 12 at some point. There is a school in the MAC, like I have said before, that is very close to going away. And if that doesn't happen I feel that Temple will be gone someday as well. "


Well then plug in some cross division games! You play 4 in your division, 4 in the other division, and they all count, and are rotated each year. Army always plays Navy, as a given. The idea is to strenthen the conference, not divide it. Come up with strengthening ideas, not roadblocks. Army and Navuy bring NY and Baltimore/Wash markets, Temple brings Philly, the academys bring national profile, everybody is in for all sports.

To me, the biggest negative to having Temple and Army in the MAC is that we've lost Temple as a OOC opponent and would lose Army as well.

OOC opponents who will do home and home are very valuable.

We need Marshall as a OOC opponent - home and home.

"To me, the biggest negative to having Temple and Army in the MAC is that we've lost Temple as a OOC opponent and would lose Army as well.

OOC opponents who will do home and home are very valuable.

We need Marshall as a OOC opponent - home and home"

Going negative again. Why are Army and Temple good OOC? Get new ones that fit the same profile. Army and Temple and Navy (and WK) bring so much more to the MAC as Conference members. Why lose your big markets for OOC considerations. $$$$$ is the game here. ACC went into the NE to grab Boston. BE is ceding Philly. Grab markets, be pro-active.

sorry, Fishpro.

I didn't mean to imply that Temple doesn't belong in the MAC.

I'm a big fan of Temple and hope Army joins as well.

OOC conference scheduling is becoming worse and worse as there are fewer and fewer independents.