This is a little over a week old but I found this interesting:
From the Desk of Scott McKinney (Aug. 7, 2007)
The Big Ten has announced that they are close to expansion … again. The league expanded to 11 teams several years ago when they brought Penn State into the fold. Now, the league that should be know as the Big 11 is looking to add another team, making the Big Ten a conference of twelve.
Confused yet? Yeah, me too. But, the decision to add a twelfth team to the league is a smart idea. The NCAA mandates that in order to have a conference championship game in football, you must have twelve football-playing members. The Big Ten can see the financial gain the SEC and the Big 12 enjoys from their conference title games and they want in on the party.
Now comes the interesting part. According to Mike DeCourcey of the Sporting News, the Big Ten is set to ask Texas to leave the Big 12 and join the Big Ten. And, DeCourcey reports that the Longhorns are 85% certain they would accept the offer.
Should Texas turn down the offer from the Big Ten, DeCourcey says the Big Ten would likely turn to Tennessee as their second choice. In either case, if Texas were to leave the Big 12 or if Tennessee were to leave the SEC, that would mean that one of those two conferences would be forced to go out and find a replacement school immediately to remain at the NCAA mandated number of twelve.
Personally, I can’t see Tennessee ever leaving the SEC. The Vols athletic history is tightly wound around that of the SEC. Tennessee-Alabama, Tennessee-Florida, Tennessee-Georgia, Tennessee-Auburn … see what I mean. I just can’t imagine the third Saturday in October being Tennessee vs. Wisconson instead of Tennessee vs. Alabama.
However, Texas joining the Big Ten actually makes some sense. The Longhorns are the bell-cow program of the Big 12 and has been very vocal about the lack of improvement by many of the other athletic departments within the league. Texas officials do not believe all Big 12 schools are as committed to the growth of their athletic programs like the folks in Austin are.
Should Texas leave the Big 12 and join the Big 10, their financial impact would be felt immediately. Instead of receiving $10 million from the Big 12 in the league’s revenue sharing plan, Texas would likely get around $20 million annually from the Big 10.
Can you imagine Texas, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Wisconsin, and Illinois in the same football conference?
There are changes forthcoming in the landscape of college football, that’s for sure. Could this be the beginning of the proposed “super conference” that has been talked about for so long?
Have a great weekend.
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?S=146#s=146...5&T=815682
Another board is also talking about it.
http://cappingthegame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32575
Now here is something interesting. I don't expect Tennessee to leave because, quite frankly, the SEC is in a much better situation then the Big Ten, bringing in more money, just as much attention, is, arguably, the superior conference and is geographically perfect. They aren't leaving. But if they did leave it is possible that the SEC could go after Texas since they want a Texas school badly. So Texas might leave the Big 12 anyway. But, again, it would be crazy for Tennesee to leave because the Big Ten doesn't offer then anything that the SEC doesn't give them. Money, stability, exposure, anything. Apparently though the Big Ten is looking for a big splash or bust. A big name or no team at all because they're not looking for a 12th team just for a 12th team, or just for a championship game. They're not even looking for a 12th team solely for market value. The Big Ten is looking for a 12th that would make an impact ratings wise and sell the Big Ten Network. The biggest irony of all is that the Big 12 probably should be a lot more worried then the Big East.
Here's the deal about Texas and the Big 12:
Remember all the complaining that the Iowa St. AD did about the unequal revenue sharing in the conference? That was Texas's idea. You play well, you get more money. But the Big 12 doesn't generate the revenues that the Big Ten does, so if Texas goes to the Big Ten, they likely take virtually no hit in revenues and just keep their mouth shut about how the Big Ten does distribute equally.
Quote:Can you imagine Texas, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Wisconsin, and Illinois in the same football conference?
I'm going to assume Mike means Ohio St., not Illinois, in that discussion. I also believe that the Big Ten prefers, possibly requires any expansion outside of a Big Ten state to be to a state that borders a current Big Ten state and my map says Texas doesn't border any Big Ten states.
As for possibility of Tennessee leaving, I believe that is slim and none. Tennessee is also in the SEC East, not the West. There would also have to be some major SEC realignment since the SEC West contains two Alabama schools and two Mississippi schools who likely would not want to be put into different divisions and Arkansas and LSU, the two other schools are the furthest west of the SEC schools. I also believe that if the SEC lost Tennessee and realigned their divisions, Texas A&M might be the better fit.
I'm not sure about bordering states being a requirement. People said the same thing about the ACC. I don't think bordering states is an issue but who knows I could be wrong. Nebraska, though, is a bordering state. Hmmmm. . . .
Tim Griffin
San Antonio Express-News
Big Ten commissioner Jim Delaney is one of the 1,000-pound gorillas of college athletics. Whatever he wants, he usually gets.
The Big Ten rules the collegiate roost. And when its commissioner even implies he is considering expansion, it makes for more than merely a series of juicy newspaper headlines.
When Delaney starts talking about expansion, even in its most abstract terms, it should send some shock tremors jolting through the Big 12's leadership.
Because if the Big Ten chooses to expand - whether in the immediate or distant future - it's likely that several Big 12 schools would be among those most likely to be considered.
The Big 12 should be among those with the most to fear when speculation starts about Big Ten expansion. The reasons why are obvious.
Delaney told the Des Moines Register last week that the conference needs to look at expanding in the next season. He hinted that moving his conference to another state would provide added value for the conference's fledgling television network, which is having difficulty gaining traction in almost every location because of its lack of reach.
"The broader (the network) is distributed, the more value (expansion) has," Delaney told the newspaper. "We have eight states. With expansion you could have nine."
Although he backed off from his comments several days later at the Big Ten's media days, it's clear that his talk about addition was more than idle speculation. Or else why would he be so open to talking about it in the first place?
If the conference were to expand to 12 teams, there are several different ways to look. The speculation about each potential school is intriguing - even if it might be years from happening.
Before Delaney ever decides to look in any other direction, he needs to be absolutely, positively sure about the prospects of being able to land Notre Dame. If the Irish decide they want to join the Big Ten, it's the certain best choice. The school already plays many of the schools in football and basketball. It's also the most geographically sound move.
But Notre Dame administrators have turned down the Big Ten once before and it's unlikely that NBC would ever want the program to leave its independent status for any conference. Notre Dame athletic director Kevin White is said to be adamant about staying independent in football - which is the reason he's cutting deals with stadiums across Texas and Florida to get his program into these recruiting-rich areas in the future for non-conference games.
If Notre Dame decides to still say no, the Big Ten has some other fallback candidates. The most intriguing would be a couple of Big 12 schools - and not merely because former Big 12 commissioner Kevin Weiberg was just hired to head up the Big Ten's television network and knows the speed-dial combinations for every president in the conference.
To say that Weiberg knows a little about the Big 12's sometimes dysfunctional family would be an understatement. One of the major reasons that Weiberg left the Big 12 for the relative safety of moving back to the Big Ten was because he was tired of refereeing the big school/small school battles that marked the end of his Big 12 tenure.
So Weiberg would know the pressure points better than anybody in case the Big Ten needed to court any specific Big 12 schools.
Missouri would fall easily into the Big Ten's footprint, but would add little in terms of national stature. The Tigers are the preseason North Division favorites in football this season, but remain a school that has not won a conference football championship since 1969.
Missouri is one of the largest states nationally in terms of population with only one state school playing Division I-A football. But the feeling always has been that the St. Louis metropolitan area already looks to the Big Ten as much to the Big 12 because of its proximity to Illinois. So the Big Ten wouldn't really be adding that much in terms of another television market.
Iowa State would also be a simple geographic addition, balancing the East and West divisions in the Big Ten. But ISU, which last won a football championship by sharing the Missouri Valley title in 1912 and had a recent 22-year lapse between bowl visits, makes even less practical sense than Missouri.
Iowa is already the least populated state in the Big Ten and adding another school in the state would additionally fragment that limited base.
If anything, adding ISU would cut the Big Ten's support rather than grow it. And the thinking here is that if the Big Ten expands, it wants to garner as much splash as it could muster.
That's why two Big 12 teams probably make Big Ten officials salivate at the mere thought of adding them.
Nebraska and Texas are the two of the biggest powers in the Big 12 in terms of national football presence. The schools butted heads over almost every issue when the conference was formed. Now, they are strong allies in the big vs. small battles that made Weiberg's last few months of working with the Big 12 difficult.
Nebraska would be almost as easy a fit as Missouri from a geographic standpoint, providing delicious immediate natural rivalries with Iowa, Minnesota and Wisconsin.
And while Nebraska wouldn't add an immediate boost in terms of population of the actual state, the Cornhuskers have a true national perspective in terms of their support. Cornhusker alumni arrange for their games to be broadcast across the nation - from Phoenix and Denver to Seattle and Sioux Falls. Think that devoted group might have some interest in buying the Big Ten cable network if it had a few more Cornhuskers games?
But the thought is that Nebraska would truly have to receive more than just a huge payday. It would be hard to see the school do away with traditional rivalries with schools like Kansas, Missouri and Iowa State that date from the early days of the Big Eight.
But if Delaney wants to truly think outside the box and make his conference the best in the country, the most intriguing choice might be found about 973 miles southwest of the conference's Chicago offices to Austin.
Some critics would say that speculation is fueled by lunacy. But the same criticism abounded when talking about Penn State shortly before the Nittany Lions moved into the Big Ten.
Remember that UT officials flirted with the Big Ten in the final stages of the Southwest Conference in the early 1990s. The most obvious reason for the original interest in both parties was that the academic missions of those 11 schools match UT's.
Part of what makes the Big Ten unique is that it is also an academic partnership of research-based schools. And UT has been a member of the invitation-only Association of American Universities since 1929. All of the Big Ten schools are members of that group.
The distance between UT and the rest of the Big Ten makes it impractical. Travel costs in the Big Ten would skyrocket. And fans would have a hard time following their favorite Longhorn teams.
The result would be a bizarre sense of isolation for UT fans in their new conference. They no longer would have the traditional rivalries against Texas A&M or Texas Tech or Oklahoma except for an occasional non-conference game.
College sports are so successful because they are built on regional, traditional rivalries. The Big Ten and the Southeastern Conferences have been the two strongest conferences in recent history because of their tightly knit fan bases. And adding UT or Nebraska would be a complete departure of that strategy for the Big Ten.
I hope it happens. I'd love to see UT in the Big11. Just shows how backwards that conference is.
That would be a devastating blow to the Big 12....but honestly better them then us
Jackson
Jackson1011 Wrote:That would be a devastating blow to the Big 12....but honestly better them then us
Jackson
If this were to happen, and that's a big if, you can kiss the Big 12 good-bye. Oklahoma and Nebraska will lead the charge for a 9-10 team league. This has been talked about in earlier threads. And if Nebraska gets invited and leaves, then Texas and Oklahoma will lead the charge for a 9-10 team league that increases both their revenues and makes annual appearances in BCS bowls more likely.
WacoBearcat Wrote:Jackson1011 Wrote:That would be a devastating blow to the Big 12....but honestly better them then us
Jackson
If this were to happen, and that's a big if, you can kiss the Big 12 good-bye. Oklahoma and Nebraska will lead the charge for a 9-10 team league. This has been talked about in earlier threads. And if Nebraska gets invited and leaves, then Texas and Oklahoma will lead the charge for a 9-10 team league that increases both their revenues and makes annual appearances in BCS bowls more likely.
I would be concerned right now if I were Texas Tech and Baylor.
WacoBearcat Wrote:WacoBearcat Wrote:Jackson1011 Wrote:That would be a devastating blow to the Big 12....but honestly better them then us
Jackson
If this were to happen, and that's a big if, you can kiss the Big 12 good-bye. Oklahoma and Nebraska will lead the charge for a 9-10 team league. This has been talked about in earlier threads. And if Nebraska gets invited and leaves, then Texas and Oklahoma will lead the charge for a 9-10 team league that increases both their revenues and makes annual appearances in BCS bowls more likely.
I would be concerned right now if I were Texas Tech and Baylor.
Exactly. If Nebraska leaves Texas Tech is in above average shape because they could pressure officials in Texas to force Texas and the other Texas schools to include Tech. But if Texas leaves that's big trouble.
I feel like I've been sucked in, and I really hate expansion threads but here it is.
When it comes to Texas Tech and/or Baylor, it wouldn't surprise me if they wouldn't have a home in the MWC. I may be talking crazy, but Texas Tech is in NW Texas and would be a natural rival for New Mexico, played in the Border Conference with UNM. Baylor would provide a travel partner for TCU. Add on Boise St. or Fresno St. and you have a viable 12 team conference. Is it a step down for both schools, yes, and that's why its hypothetical.
MWC North: BYU, Utah, AFA, Boise St., Wyoming, Colorado St.
MWC South: SDSU, UNLV, TCU, Texas Tech, Baylor and New Mexico
The Big 12 would be down to nine teams. Maybe they survive with those nine or maybe instead of both Texas Tech and Baylor leaving, only one does and the conference sticks at 10. The MWC tacks on Fresno St. instead for 12 or just tacks one of the Texas schools, leaving BSU in the WAC, and the MWC goes to 10.
I just think this talk is crazy, time for SI to drug test. Really, look at it from the other point of view, say iowa state downgraded their athletic program and left the big 12, would Michigan than consider an offer to join the big 12. Ditto if say miss state or vandy left the SEC, would indiana consider an offer to join the sec? it doesn't make an sense to me
Hadn't heard any of this, considering the Dallas Morning News covers UT like it was in town.
Overall, very unlikely.
bluesox Wrote:I just think this talk is crazy, time for SI to drug test. Really, look at it from the other point of view, say iowa state downgraded their athletic program and left the big 12, would Michigan than consider an offer to join the big 12. Ditto if say miss state or vandy left the SEC, would indiana consider an offer to join the sec? it doesn't make an sense to me
Why would Michigan consider going to the Big 12, the reason Texas is rumored to be interested in the Big Ten is because of stability and the Big Ten brings in FAR more money and national exposure. You're missing the point. As for as markets, national exposure and money the Big 12 isn't close to the Big Ten or SEC's level.
DFW HOYA Wrote:Hadn't heard any of this, considering the Dallas Morning News covers UT like it was in town.
Overall, very unlikely.
You mean the same newspapers that had less information on the ACC and Big East expansions then internet message boards and fans? Those same newspapers? There is a reason why people say newspapers are dying.
I don't believe texas, big 12 give more $'s to the bigger athletic school's or tennessee, would gain that much in $'s by moving to the big 10. The sec and big 12 make alot of $'S themselves. Its just silly and really is about the big 10 ego, heck maybe the should find a school in china and invite them, there are alot of viewing eyes in that market.
Did you see the money the ESPN threw at the Big Ten? Close to $1 billion over 10 years. Now tack on revenues from the Big Ten Network, being paid from FOX and the LLC created to own the network. Big 12 isn't matching that. The Big 12's first TV deal was only $100 million over 5 years from both ABC and Liberty/FSN. I doubt it increased ten-fold.
The Big 12 does unequal revenue sharing for TV. 50% of revenues are spread equally, 50% are given based on TV appearances and Texas rarely misses TV, but the Big 12 for football doesn't get nearly the national exposure that the Big Ten has (FSN's regional approach cuts the conference out of many markets).
If the Big 10 takes Texas.
The Big 12 takes Arkansas.
The SEC takes Florida St. or Virginia Tech
The ACC takes Syracuse
The ACC wanted Syracuse before. Syracuse will jump at the ACC. We all know that.
The Big East goes after ????
Any conference shuffle will effect everybody.
The ONLY reason that Arkansas would even consider the Big12 is if texas is there and thats a very low chance. If Texas bailed to Big10 there is NO reason for arkansas to move to a weaker and lower paying conference.
The Big12 would probably go after
BYU, TCU,Houston or Louisville
Out of those 4......Louisville is your best bet.