Phil’s Weekly Notes June 26th
http://www.philsteele.com/online/June29th.pdf
Quote:Army has not had a winning season since 1996 and has never won more than 4 games in a season during that span. This is a program with too good of a history to go through such struggles. I mentioned it in the magazine and I want to mention it again here. Army should join the MAC as it would be a perfect fit. The MAC is in desperate need of another team so it can balance its schedule and count all MAC games in the division standings. I know Army was just 9-41 in CUSA action when they joined that league but that was too big a jump. The MAC would provide them with a legitimate shot at contending for league honors on a yearly basis and also give them exposure in the great recruiting states of Ohio, Pennsylvania and Michigan. The MAC has its headquatters in Cleveland and just added Temple which brings in the city of Philadelphia. It is a nearby location for Army as the MAC already has a team in New York state (Buffalo) so travel costs would not be that great. In the CUSA they were an East Coast team playing in a Southern conference. Both Army and the MAC need this union to happen and I think it would be a WIN/WIN agreement.
Great idea, but I'm pretty sure I read somewhere Army is dead set on remaining independent and isn't going to change that mindset anytime soon.
At one time Army and Navy were very close to joining the MAC. But that window has long since slammed shut.
I was looking at Army's facilities...and Wow!. They would be tops in the MAC. They just finished a $15 million IPF. They just built a $30 million athletic facility in 2003 that has a 20,000 sq. ft. Strength & Conditioning Center. They added a new $8 million press box facility a few years ago. They've spent a lot of money on their athletic facilities in the last 7 years.
HuronDave Wrote:At one time Army and Navy were very close to joining the MAC. But that window has long since slammed shut.
Dave: Spot on.
Of course, this opens the door for Kit-Cat to reel off a ridiculously long thread on possible conference alignments.
BGSUalum1987 Wrote:HuronDave Wrote:At one time Army and Navy were very close to joining the MAC. But that window has long since slammed shut.
Dave: Spot on.
Of course, this opens the door for Kit-Cat to reel off a ridiculously long thread on possible conference alignments.
Kit-Kat's new nickname could be "The Commish".
I don't think Army is going to do anything without Navy, and we don't have two spots available.
Army was burned on the CUSA deal. They did not fit in that conference and their pride was hurt badly by the bruising they took in that conference. I would love to see Army or Navy in the MAC for football, but it is not going to happen. Army will play several MAC schools a year, but not join the conference. Somehow the Air Force Academy has fared well in a conference, but their more historic brethern will remain independent as they can build schedules based on their reputations.
schedules filled with east coast 1aa light weights that pad the win totals. Deleware, Lafayette, UMass and those like them make up a fair amount of their Ws these days.
I like the idea of army for football to balance the schedule. Don;t their other sports play in a league?
I know BG fans would hate it but they would switch back to the west (geographically it just makes sense)....otherwise it has to be miami oh or kent state so that the two name thing is going on in the west...
I like this thread.
I've made the point in other threads that Army would be an ideal #14 for the same reasons Steele makes.
I've read Huron Dave's comment about Army and Navy.
I'll go out on a limb and say that Army just might consider the MAC in say 2 years provided a few things happen:
1). MAC must maintain or expand on their 3 bowls.
2). UB and Temple, possible natural rivals, need to become more competitive teams.
3). The MAC, as a whole, needs to be on an upswing on the field and in the stands.
4). Membership for both Temple and Army would be FB only.
5). Some accomodation needs to be made for the Army Navy game. I can see Army being 'bypassed' for the MACC so they can play Navy the following weekend and they would be guaranteed one of the three MAC bowl slots if they were the East champ. The MAC might also give Army a bye the week before the MACC so Army wouldn't play 3 games in a row.
Probably a few more which escape me now.
emu steve Wrote:5). Some accomodation needs to be made for the Army Navy game. I can see Army being 'bypassed' for the MACC so they can play Navy the following weekend and they would be guaranteed one of the three MAC bowl slots if they were the East champ. The MAC might also give Army a bye the week before the MACC so Army wouldn't play 3 games in a row.
Probably a few more which escape me now.
Doesn't Army have a bowl game available to them if they are bowl eligible? If they do, they can just maintain that bowl tie-in and if they are bowl eligible they can go to that bowl game while three other MAC teams go to the MAC bowls.
Quote:Army has not had a winning season since 1996 and has never won more than 4 games in a season during that span. This is a program with too good of a history to go through such struggles. I mentioned it in the magazine and I want to mention it again here. Army should join the MAC as it would be a perfect fit. The MAC is in desperate need of another team so it can balance its schedule and count all MAC games in the division standings. I know Army was just 9-41 in CUSA action when they joined that league but that was too big a jump. The MAC would provide them with a legitimate shot at contending for league honors on a yearly basis and also give them exposure in the great recruiting states of Ohio, Pennsylvania and Michigan.
Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of Army joining the MAC despite the fact that I doubt it will happen. They would be a decent fit geographically and bring a strong tradition with them.
But the thing I don't like about this article is that it implies the MAC is weak and would be easily beaten up by the likes of Army. This crap reinforces the sentiment that whoever the MAC should happen to pick up has got it made now because the MAC is a cupcake league. Similar comments were made in the media when Temple and UCF joined.
HorseGlue Wrote:Quote:Army has not had a winning season since 1996 and has never won more than 4 games in a season during that span. This is a program with too good of a history to go through such struggles. I mentioned it in the magazine and I want to mention it again here. Army should join the MAC as it would be a perfect fit. The MAC is in desperate need of another team so it can balance its schedule and count all MAC games in the division standings. I know Army was just 9-41 in CUSA action when they joined that league but that was too big a jump. The MAC would provide them with a legitimate shot at contending for league honors on a yearly basis and also give them exposure in the great recruiting states of Ohio, Pennsylvania and Michigan.
But the thing I don't like about this article is that it implies the MAC is weak and would be easily beaten up by the likes of Army. This crap reinforces the sentiment that whoever the MAC should happen to pick up has got it made now because the MAC is a cupcake league. Similar comments were made in the media when Temple and UCF joined.
I agree with what you're saying, in the Sagarin ratings the only reason CUSA is above us, albeit minimally, is because our bottom feeders (Eastern Michigan and Buffalo) are worse than their's (UAB and Rice?). The top 8 teams in our league could easily take on their top 8. The only recognizably good team in CUSA is Southern Miss.
Navy mulls potential conference move
http://www.examiner.com/a-881765~Navy_mu..._move.html
Aug 15, 2007
by Ron Snyder, The Examiner
Quote:Annapolis - Navy athletics director Chet Gladchuck doesn’t want a conference affiliation for his football team, but he said he may not have a choice.
Gladchuck said Navy has no bowl agreement beyond this year’s Poinsettia Bowl in San Diego, and the complex tie-in between bowl games and conferences makes it more difficult each year for Navy to schedule a postseason game.
Joining a conference comes with considerable concessions for Navy, which as an independent, develops its schedule and keeps all the money it generates from broadcast rights, ticket sales and other revenue streams.
“You’ve got to look at it two ways,” Gladchuck said. “Where are we today and is it working? But, you also have to be concerned about down the road. Dynamics can change in short order.
People who read this also read:
We’re comfortable today because we’re filling up the stadium, we’re playing a quasi-national stadium where we can play whoever we want. We have a great television package and a quality radio network. We have had tie-ins with bowl games and it’s working. Now, will it work tomorrow, I’m not sure.”
Gladchuck said since Navy’s resurgence in football four years ago, it has been fortunate to secure bowl invitations. In 2003, the Southeastern Conference’s University of South Carolina failed to qualify for the Houston Bowl, which opened a spot for Navy because the SEC didn’t have any more bowl eligible teams. In 2004, Gladchuck made a deal to get Navy into the Emerald Bowl in San Francisco.
Then in 2005, the inaugural Poinsettia Bowl wanted Navy because of its large following in San Diego. Finally last year, the Meineke Car Care Bowl made a one-year agreement with Navy to play in Charlotte, N.C., instead of taking its usual Big East team.
“The one area we have been able to manage, but not control, is the bowl structure,” Gladchuck said. “By managing that structure, we’ve been able to find five straight bowl games, but not being able to control it plays into us looking for a conference affiliation or trying to survive as an independent.”
Navy football coach Paul Johnson said a conference affiliation would not impact how he recruits. But he is concerned a wrong move could become a detriment to the program. He cited a rumored quasi-membership into the Big East as an example. Johnson and Gladchuk refused to comment specifically which conference would be most attractive, but the Big East Conference and Conference USA are the closest fits both competitively and geographically. The Atlantic Coast Conference is filled with football teams superior to Navy’s.
“You want to be able to compete and make sure the conference is the right fit,” Johnson said, “The Big East doesn’t make much sense since we don’t have a lot in common with those schools and we don’t recruit the same kind of players.”
One potential short-term answer for Navy is a playing in a new bowl game in Baltimore in December of 2008. The Camden Yards Sports and Entertainment Commission considers Navy a prime candidate for the game, according to Wayne Edwards, the commission’s sports committee chairman.
Edwards said he is dealing with many of the same obstacles as Navy.
“Many conferences have tie-ins going seven teams deep,” Edwards said. “There just aren’t a lot of possibilities right now. Navy is a great fit, but we need an opponent for them and a backup in case they aren’t eligible.”
epasnoopy Wrote:I agree with what you're saying, in the Sagarin ratings the only reason CUSA is above us, albeit minimally, is because our bottom feeders (Eastern Michigan and Buffalo) are worse than their's (UAB and Rice?). The top 8 teams in our league could easily take on their top 8. The only recognizably good team in CUSA is Southern Miss.
A big reason CUSA did better in the Sagarins is because their opponents performed better.
The Big Ten had an off year and that had an indirect impact on the MAC ratings.
I've been saying that Army (and Navy) belong in the MAC for 3 years.
Let Temple and Buffalo compete for a couple of years and kick out the loser. Then bring both of them into the MAC. Make the Army-Navy game be a MAC conference game. I think they are both a good match for the MAC.
Its long been speculated but I wonder if the climate is there to put together a new conference with Navy as an anchor team.
American Conference
Navy (Maryland)
Temple (Pennsylvania)
Army (New York)
Ohio (SE OH)
Akron (NE OH)
Toledo (NW OH)
MU (SW OH)
Ball State (Indiana)
Western Michigan (Michigan)
Northern Ill. (Illinios)
10 teams in football for round-robin play w/Army-Navy game on CBS as de facto championship. Army and Navy on the home schedule will help everyone else with attendance. The conference would be prestigous for recruiting with two acadamies.
8 teams in basketball for double round-robin play and good rivalries. Couldn't be any worse then current MAC basketball league.
steer Wrote:I've been saying that Army (and Navy) belong in the MAC for 3 years. Let Temple and Buffalo compete for a couple of years and kick out the loser. Then bring both of them into the MAC. Make the Army-Navy game be a MAC conference game. I think they are both a good match for the MAC.
Army-Navy being a MAC conference game is brilliant. Not sure both can be invited in to the MAC right now. The original post talked about Army, which right now seems to have a lot less bowl possibilities than Navy (not that Navy has a lot). If Army were to come in to the MAC East, the MAC teams could have 6 conference games within the division, leaving Army 6 OOC games to schedule and have automatic bowl tie-ins. Offer Army, FB only, NOW!
#1 The MAC is a great conference as it is.
As Temple doesn't have (in my opinion) long term aspirations to stay in the MAC, I wouldn't be opposed to bringing on Navy & Army if they wanted to come and end the affiliation with Temple. Then again, I wouldn't be opposed to seeing the MAC going back to a 12 team conference again.
#2, Army & Navy don't want to come to the MAC. If they can not remain an independent, which I believe they can, they wouldn't want to be in the MAC. Games against Army & Navy probably would help MAC teams slightly as far as attendance goes. But, it would probably have a negligible effect for both schools bringing in upper Midwestern schools.
College football is about the money, it will have to be in some way beneficial financially for them to join any league. It won't be if they join any mid-major conference, if they can sell tickets and get broadcast rights.
The MAC has bowl tie-ins in part because it pays to subsidize them, why couldn't Army and Navy team up and do that as well?