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Nick's newest article entitled "An In-Depth Analysis of the Alleged Toledo Point Shaving Fiasco" is now live over at VanDelay Sports.

IBleedMACGreen Wrote:Nick's newest article entitled "An In-Depth Analysis of the Alleged Toledo Point Shaving Fiasco" is now live over at VanDelay Sports.

Hard to sell your handicapping service to the Vegas Sports Books with that logic.Better to scapegoat when your poor forecasting performance cost your clients money.Vinny "the Nose" is not pleased.

Nice analysis, but I think Nick is missing a major point here. Scooter was alleged to have recruited other players to take part in the scheme. Yes, it is difficult, especially in football, for one person to greatly influence the outcome. BUT, if you get two or three guys on each side of the ball, then it can be fairly easy to do. Especially if if are talking about skill position guys (QB, RB, WR, LB, DB).

In USA Today on line today there is an article about Scooter's Dad asking that his son be reinstated on the UT football team.

What do the Feds have?

BG Warthog Wrote:Nice analysis, but I think Nick is missing a major point here. Scooter was alleged to have recruited other players to take part in the scheme. Yes, it is difficult, especially in football, for one person to greatly influence the outcome. BUT, if you get two or three guys on each side of the ball, then it can be fairly easy to do. Especially if if are talking about skill position guys (QB, RB, WR, LB, DB).

Yes,but the way UT rotates players,particularly at the skill positions(except QB) would make it even harder 2 or 3 players on both sides of the ball to control outcomes.

BG Warthog Wrote:Nice analysis, but I think Nick is missing a major point here. Scooter was alleged to have recruited other players to take part in the scheme. Yes, it is difficult, especially in football, for one person to greatly influence the outcome. BUT, if you get two or three guys on each side of the ball, then it can be fairly easy to do. Especially if if are talking about skill position guys (QB, RB, WR, LB, DB).

I think you're missing the point too. When the FBI said that Scooter recruited other players, they never said those were Toledo players. There's no way the Rockets should have won that game against BG in your home stadium so obviously Scooter paid one of your players to tank it. Which one of your players do you think he got to?

RocketJeff Wrote:I think you're missing the point too. When the FBI said that Scooter recruited other players, they never said those were Toledo players. There's no way the Rockets should have won that game against BG in your home stadium so obviously Scooter paid one of your players to tank it. Which one of your players do you think he got to?

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

This post was desperate.

Schadenfreude Wrote:

RocketJeff Wrote:I think you're missing the point too. When the FBI said that Scooter recruited other players, they never said those were Toledo players. There's no way the Rockets should have won that game against BG in your home stadium so obviously Scooter paid one of your players to tank it. Which one of your players do you think he got to?

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

This post was desperate.

It was in jest.C'mon now.
Good luck with the upcoming FB season.

We have been picked to win the west. Unless AZZ gets their wish, and we get the death penalty, Toledo will beat BG, once again. Meanwhile, enjoy the Paris Hilton case.

Lakeland_Rocket Wrote:We have been picked to win the west. Unless AZZ gets their wish, and we get the death penalty, Toledo will beat BG, once again. Meanwhile, enjoy the Paris Hilton case.

Don't most prognosticators have CMU and even WMU ahead of Toledo?

Well, yeah, so we're really the only ones picking us to win the West, but still...

Actually, one of the mags like Athlon or Lindy's picked us. I think they said that with Keith Triplett returning at running back and Kevin Meagher replacing the legendary Chuck Ealey we should be able to continue our dominance over Marshall in the West.

the feds have 2 going on 3 years of man hours on this case, hundreds of hours of wiretaps, an interview/interrogation of scooter, and no current case. my assumption is that these guys aren't gonna put that much effort into something and not try to get someone convicted. i'm not saying scooter was framed, but the only fairly solid facts right now are
-that gamblers beat the house pretty good on some mac games with a couple toledo games in 2005 standng out.
-one gambler, whose friend had a cell phone store that some toledo players shopped at, tried to get friendly with some of them and made some calls to scooter.

it doesn't smell good, but no stinking piles of pooh have been uncovered.

unless you think the fbi saying they got a tape of somebody talking with you about something bad is proof of guilt and cause for seeking imprisonment, I think we should leave it as stinky and unresolved. I also find it ironic that the fbi is going to bat for an industry that makes its fortune by manipulating people's weaknesses and teasing the reins of their vices while subtly tipping the odds in its favor. long live sin city.

Boca Rocket Wrote:

Schadenfreude Wrote:

RocketJeff Wrote:I think you're missing the point too. When the FBI said that Scooter recruited other players, they never said those were Toledo players. There's no way the Rockets should have won that game against BG in your home stadium so obviously Scooter paid one of your players to tank it. Which one of your players do you think he got to?

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

This post was desperate.

It was in jest.C'mon now.
Good luck with the upcoming FB season.

While it was in jest, I do find what is desperate is how badly some want Toledo to flame out. (pun intended)

I also find it ironic that the fbi is going to bat for an industry that makes its fortune by manipulating people's weaknesses and teasing the reins of their vices while subtly tipping the odds in its favor. long live sin city.
[/quote]

But they do pay taxes, my friend.

And we bail out the people who go Banko at the craps table.

The fact the Scooter was associating with known gamblers is enough to have him thrown off team for good. Toledo is one of the MAC's top TV draws. MAC needs a strong Toledo program that can win bowls and pull off upset of BCS teams during the non-conference season.

From the Plain Dealer, May 6, 2007:

Quote:The complaint cited a second conversation in which McDougal asked Gary to place a $2,000.00 bet on the UTEP game for him, at which time Gary informed McDougle that another player wuld be helping out.

Rationalize all you wish, but the outcomes aren't necessarily the point. If the FBI has the tapes they claim of McDougal placing bets on Toledo games and "Gary" gives up the other guys McDougal pointed his way, there are tough times ahead in Toledo.

FlashFan Wrote:From the Plain Dealer, May 6, 2007:

Quote:The complaint cited a second conversation in which McDougal asked Gary to place a $2,000.00 bet on the UTEP game for him, at which time Gary informed McDougle that another player wuld be helping out.

Rationalize all you wish, but the outcomes aren't necessarily the point. If the FBI has the tapes they claim of McDougal placing bets on Toledo games and "Gary" gives up the other guys McDougal pointed his way, there are tough times ahead in Toledo.

This story broke such a long time ago and now there has been no activity or new charges filed.
What could the prosecutors be waiting for?
Evidence?

FlashFan Wrote:From the Plain Dealer, May 6, 2007:

Quote:The complaint cited a second conversation in which McDougal asked Gary to place a $2,000.00 bet on the UTEP game for him, at which time Gary informed McDougle that another player wuld be helping out.

Rationalize all you wish, but the outcomes aren't necessarily the point. If the FBI has the tapes they claim of McDougal placing bets on Toledo games and "Gary" gives up the other guys McDougal pointed his way, there are tough times ahead in Toledo.

that would be the case, but i'm still in wait and see mode on the evidence. the fbi has investigated, tapped and initiated legal proceedings on a slew of middle eastern guys from the detroit area the past few years and nearly all of the cases have gone bust. this is a gambling case but the fact an iraqi american guy was wiretapped for over a year and the case has failed to come together tightly fits a pattern. also, since scooter wasn't playing in the games in question he's either a) not guilty b)guilty by association not participation c)lying through his teeth about his innocence and was facilitating a scheme with recruited teammates