CSNbbs

I thought you were going to say they were offering Sony some advice on how to create a worthwhile gaming system.

Other things I think they've done in recent years that is innovative or makes it easier for others to innovate:

Xbox/360 - the media center extender features are great, also the streaming of audio and video from your PC to your Xbox 360 is nice as well.

.NET Framework / Development environment - made it easier for people to code for Windows and IIS web servers - less time programming smaller functions, they are already in the framework for you to use.

Microsoft Exchange - first company to get out a full featured email server that includes a powerful online collaboration software

Sharepoint - took online collaboration to the next level

Additions:

Active Directory - makes management of large networks MUCH easier, including pushing out of software and other policies, keeping the administrators from having to touch every PC when new software is released.

I'm sure there is more, but I'm drawing a blank on other things at the moment.

Looks pretty cool I'll have to take a closer look this evening.

mlb Wrote:Xbox/360 - the media center extender features are great, also the streaming of audio and video from your PC to your Xbox 360 is nice as well.

Nothing new here. Tools to do this have been around for a long time. Pushing non-game content from the XBox to a HDTV looks like garbage still.

mlb Wrote:.NET Framework / Development environment - made it easier for people to code for Windows and IIS web servers - less time programming smaller functions, they are already in the framework for you to use.

As garbage as visual basic is.

mlb Wrote:Microsoft Exchange - first company to get out a full featured email server that includes a powerful online collaboration software

It has some good and some bad. It fulfilled a void but it could have done OH so much more. Zimbra/eGroupWare/etc for the win.

mlb Wrote:Sharepoint - took online collaboration to the next level

I've never even heard of this.

mlb Wrote:Active Directory - makes management of large networks MUCH easier, including pushing out of software and other policies, keeping the administrators from having to touch every PC when new software is released.

Gentoo can do this much more elegantly, securely, cheaper, and reliably. I R unimpressed.

Didn't spend alot of time on this, but what I saw reminded me of this article
http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/112/...hthis.html

Check out the video clip in the article
http://www.fastcompany.com/video/player....=769654555

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:Nothing new here. Tools to do this have been around for a long time. Pushing non-game content from the XBox to a HDTV looks like garbage still.

Apparently you haven't used the 360. Looks great on my 110" 720p projection.

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:As garbage as visual basic is.

VB is only a small part of it. Overall it is a very powerful developmental framework that I'm willing to bet you have never used.

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:It has some good and some bad. It fulfilled a void but it could have done OH so much more. Zimbra/eGroupWare/etc for the win.

Depends on opinion I guess... I like Exchange much better than any of those other options. I also think that the Outlook client is lightyears ahead of the other clients on the market.

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:I've never even heard of this.

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/sharep...01033.aspx

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:Gentoo can do this much more elegantly, securely, cheaper, and reliably. I R unimpressed.

Wait, are you serious? More secure? Show me the security issues within Active Directory. Reliably? Never once had a problem with active directory, and I've run networks anywhere from 5 users up through 2000 users. Elegantly? What the hell does that mean? Cheaper? Probably in terms of the up front cost. Cost of ownership makes it no so cut and dry.

Where do you think gentoo got the idea for their directory software? Where do you think apple came up with the idea for theirs? They all took the idea from Microsoft. Therefore I'd say that is some major innovation (which is what you were referring to in your post).

Watch Bill Gates play tic tac toe on it

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/sticker-shock...264453.php

mlb Wrote:Apparently you haven't used the 360. Looks great on my 110" 720p projection.

Not what I've seen -- and not what the ZDNet HD Labs have to say either.

mlb Wrote:VB is only a small part of it. Overall it is a very powerful developmental framework that I'm willing to bet you have never used.

I have used it. It disgusts me. NavyDoc tests .NET software for a living. He's not a fan either.

mlb Wrote:Depends on opinion I guess... I like Exchange much better than any of those other options. I also think that the Outlook client is lightyears ahead of the other clients on the market.

It's on par with Evolution.

mlb Wrote:Wait, are you serious? More secure? Show me the security issues within Active Directory. Reliably? Never once had a problem with active directory, and I've run networks anywhere from 5 users up through 2000 users. Elegantly? What the hell does that mean? Cheaper? Probably in terms of the up front cost. Cost of ownership makes it no so cut and dry.

Security has been done to death -- Linux is just flat out more secure according to everybody on the planet not named Microsoft or The Yankee Group (aka Microsoft's pet survey company). Cost of ownership is significantly less assuming you have a competent admin in charge of the deployment. Again, this agreed on by everybody not named Microsoft or The Yankee Group.

Quote:Where do you think gentoo got the idea for their directory software? Where do you think apple came up with the idea for theirs? They all took the idea from Microsoft. Therefore I'd say that is some major innovation (which is what you were referring to in your post).

UNIX group permissions existed before Microsoft was even a company. Game, set, match. Apple is using (unethically) FreeBSD code, which is, yet again, UNIX group permissions.

The Microsoft innovation list consists of DOS, Windows 3.1, very early Direct X, Windows 95 if it weren't unstable as hell, and the Surface.

Active Directory is not just group permissions. Active Directory is management of all PCs, all servers, and all software loads on these machines. If you have a good admin you not longer need to ghost machines, all software is pushed out the moment the machine goes on the network and is configured automatically. *nix is not at that level yet, but they have tried to copy it many times. Thus, AD is very innovative, IMO. This goes back to our discussion on this a year or more ago, you still don't know what Active Directory is and what it can do.

Microsoft also was the first company to put satellite photography online with their terraserver project.

As far as the XB360 goes, can you show me a link to an article ripping it from ZDNet? The only article I came up with from Google was an article praising the HD-DVD drive for the 360.

That is great that NavyDoc doesn't like .NET, I know of plenty of people who hate java and its development environment. My point is that they have made it MUCH easier to develop, a lot of it is just drag and drop now. If that isn't innovative I'm not sure what is. Does it disgust you because it is getting easier to develop, thus dropping the overall cost of new software development?

Hmm... I know a lot of government CIO's who would wholly disagree about your comment on Linux security (they have had their share of issues with security holes in their Linux machines). It all depends on how good of an admin you have. Microsoft products can be locked down to the point that they have very little security issues. Linux has its own issues, whether you want to admit to it or not. We will have to agree to disagree on your statements regarding security.

As far as cost of ownership, I honestly think they are very close to the same. Most of the Linux builds still have issues with support, especially when compared to Microsoft. If you have a production server down you can get on the phone with Microsoft and be talking to high level engineers within 10 minutes, while many times you can't get any high level tech support over the phone from the different Linux distros. The ones you can get top support with seem to be the ones the linux fan boys rip on the most.

I am by no means a Microsoft fan boy myself. I just think you are over the top anti-Microsoft, even when you have never used their software or know what it can do. Both Linux and Microsoft fill a need in today's OS and software markets and both will be around for a long time. Microsoft /= bad, Linux /= good.

mlb Wrote:Active Directory is not just group permissions. Active Directory is management of all PCs, all servers, and all software loads on these machines. If you have a good admin you not longer need to ghost machines, all software is pushed out the moment the machine goes on the network and is configured automatically. *nix is not at that level yet, but they have tried to copy it many times. Thus, AD is very innovative, IMO. This goes back to our discussion on this a year or more ago, you still don't know what Active Directory is and what it can do.

Can be done with Gentoo Linux and a cron job on pushing software automatically. The foundations of it though is group permissions.

mlb Wrote:Microsoft also was the first company to put satellite photography online with their terraserver project.

Point, but it was ****** quality, and didn't they soon require you to login just to use it?

mlb Wrote:As far as the XB360 goes, can you show me a link to an article ripping it from ZDNet? The only article I came up with from Google was an article praising the HD-DVD drive for the 360.

http://www.dl.tv ... Search through the show archive

mlb Wrote:My point is that they have made it MUCH easier to develop, a lot of it is just drag and drop now. If that isn't innovative I'm not sure what is. Does it disgust you because it is getting easier to develop, thus dropping the overall cost of new software development?

With zero knowledge I can make a QT application in mere minutes with QDevelop. It's also drag and drop.

mlb Wrote:As far as cost of ownership, I honestly think they are very close to the same. Most of the Linux builds still have issues with support, especially when compared to Microsoft. If you have a production server down you can get on the phone with Microsoft and be talking to high level engineers within 10 minutes, while many times you can't get any high level tech support over the phone from the different Linux distros. The ones you can get top support with seem to be the ones the linux fan boys rip on the most.

Novell gets ripped on for their patent soul selling to Microsoft. Red Hat, Canonical, and Linspire all produce quality distros with quality support. You don't need support most of the time anyway. Debian was approved as carrier grade recently for telco use.

mlb Wrote:I am by no means a Microsoft fan boy myself. I just think you are over the top anti-Microsoft, even when you have never used their software or know what it can do. Both Linux and Microsoft fill a need in today's OS and software markets and both will be around for a long time. Microsoft /= bad, Linux /= good.

Microsoft's business practices are .... at best .... highly unethical. They'll both be around for some time, but I have a hard time imagining Microsoft retaining the #1 spot given how they're not even a viable option for most of the world, Linux having a better software development model, and the advantages of open standards.

GTS for the win.

moe24 Wrote:GTS for the win.

And what point did he make to give him any win? I'm not sure you can give either side a win due to the fact that neither side runs business the same way, but both are highly successful. Do you know anything about IT or are you just kissing the ass of the site owner?

I'd say if anything I made a number of points about innovation that Microsoft has done in recent years, directly opposite of what GTS said (saying they haven't done innovation in years). Just because you don't like XB360 or Windows does not mean they haven't created some innovative products.

GTS,

I'd still like to point out that Linux did not have any open directory/active directory functionality at the level of Microsoft until well after Windows 2000 came out (in which AD was first released). Today Linux still doesn't have the level of customization that you can do for entire networks with AD (including changing things on the fly without rebooting machines and without taking a network down). AD was innovative, like it or not.

You asked for innovation. .NET was innovative and allowed for a lot of developers to create better applications in a shorter amount of time.

Redhat is ripped on all the time by Linux guys. I do agree that it is rare someone needs support, but that 1 time in 5 years it definitely comes in handy to just pick up the phone and call Microsoft. For $125 you get top notch support.

I would not be shocked to see Microsoft lose its top spot in the future (I'd say a good 10-15 years from now at the earliest), but I fully expect them to continue to be the company with the most revenues long after they lose their top spot.

mlb Wrote:And what point did he make to give him any win? I'm not sure you can give either side a win due to the fact that neither side runs business the same way, but both are highly successful. Do you know anything about IT or are you just kissing the ass of the site owner?

The point being that an innovation from Microsoft, like the Surface, is a rarity. Most of their ideas are "stolen" from other sources. Microsoft doesn't have very many original ideas and when they do have one it is quite surprising.

BTW, I know plenty about IT and I am not an ass kisser.

moe24 Wrote:The point being that an innovation from Microsoft, like the Surface, is a rarity. Most of their ideas are "stolen" from other sources. Microsoft doesn't have very many original ideas and when they do have one it is quite surprising.

I would agree that many of the new features they throw into their software comes from other places, but I wouldn't say they steal them considering they generally buy out companies and incorporate their software into other MS products.

I'd say that most companies don't come up with original ideas, they just improve on others' ideas. This includes Apple (the iPod was original, but other than that they generally do the same thing as Microsoft), IBM, Sony, or anybody else. The companies that innovate end up being bought out or closing up shop in short time.

Reminds me a little bit of the technology in Minority Report

Hitting the toonz...

http://www.applegeeks.com/lite/index.php...2007-06-01